BIG ROCCO

Ha-ha- amazing the effect FREE has on people.  My brother was liquidation a household of furniture before moving.  He listed decent quality items like couches and a dining room set starting at a hundred or two - no calls.  Dropped price to $100 - no calls.  Dropped it to $25 - no calls.  Dropped it to $10 - no calls.  Listed it for FREE - instantly, the phone was ringing non-stop for days.

I am ready when they are - it was 109 here in the Valley of the Sun today

I would honestly doubt that the heat is effecting your audio system. I live in Phoenix and the car gets really hot, maybe 180 degrees. If it's 120 outside it has to be 60 degrees hotter in the car. When I was having issues in the audio and gps systems, I unhooked all the connectors I could get to and use contact cleaner on them. Took care of all of my problems. To find where the locations are I bought a c-max manual on eBay. It works on pc's only ( I'm a Mac guy) and I paid about $10.00 for it.

I concur - no problems here in Phoenix.  N7VY has some good suggestions, and Plus 3 might also be on to something - you do have a first year SE, which are more prone to 12V battery issues.  Please keep us updated

I rear ended a mini cooper at ~ 20MPH last year - air bags and seat belt pretensioners went off - nobody was hurt, but our 2013 SEL was totalled - they gave us ~17K for our 2013 - we replaced it with a 2015 exactly the same, even the color.  The car was not that damaged - sure, it needed a new hood, grill, headlights, one fender.  The amazing thing was that we drove the car away - nothing leaked and everything worked, even the AC.  The car drove straight and was quiet.  The insurance adjuster said the reason it was totaled was the cost to replace all the airbags and dash cover and seat belts, etc

Good to know - it was 118 here yesterday.

Oops - quote does not seem to be working - I was referring to the post about high temps in Phoenix not being as big of a draw on power as somewhat lesser temps in a more humid climate; that makes sense, as the mass of the condensate on the evaporator in a humid climate has to be a big factor, but I never thought about it before.  I suppose that must come into play when designing home HVAC systems, also.

This is a good solution to a problem I didn't know I had

We had a 2013 SEL 302A for ~30K miles - now have a 2015 SEL 302A

Differences I can remember:  The 2015 seems to be a little smoother riding, but that could be due to the new tires and new suspension.  Otherwise, the driving experience seems identical.  There are a few differences in the menus/displays, the HVAC vents look a little different, there is some sort of integral mud flap and mini wind deflectors on the back glass.  There might be a slight difference in the weatherstripping under the hood.  The fuel filler is definitely different (we had frequent error messages about that on the '13 - they would clear after a couple days, and so never quite got around to doing anything about it).  There is some sort of netting on the front passenger side of the center console - maybe for a cell phone?  The owner's manual/oil filler cap calls for 0W-20, not 5W-20 oil.

Nice choice and nice color - best of luck to you!

Paul - I find it kind of amusing that I turned you into a "coaster".  My initial post was simply to respond to a previous post and say that coasting in N seems like it would be the most direct and therefore most efficient way to harvest the stored energy at the top of a hill.  Yes, I do it sometimes, maybe 1-2 times a day, but I wasn't advocating that anyone else do it.  Nevertheless, I am happy learn that you are enjoying the technique and have noticed an MPG advantage in doing so, even if it might ne illegal or unsafe as some others have pointed out.

Niro looks nice - appears to have a larger cargo space, but seats do not fold flat

3 ideas:

A.This might be better left alone.

B.  Is there a way to get the engine to run when in Park?  I think so.  Maybe you need to draw down the HVB.  Anyway, assuming it can be done, remove the oil filler cap with the engine running, and put your hand near/over the opening.  Feel suction?  If so, then the PCV valve is working.

C.  Another idea is to remove the hose on the other end - with engine off  - make sure it is clear, spray a little carburetor cleaner (Gumout) or throttle plate cleaner down there - that might clean up what residue there is.   Then re-attach the hose and start the engine.  Don't spray too much at one time, as it will end up in the oil.  I'm sure a little would do no harm, but don't use the whole can!  Or do it immediately prior to an oil change.

I had a '94 Eldorado with water leak that would fill up the trunk with water - I thought that was ridiculous.  Now, 22 years later, there is no way this should be happening to you - I am very sorry for your troubles - it really ruins the whole new car experience!

I think we're at ~ 3,500 miles on our C-Max, and I noticed the fuel mileage increasing lately.  The temps in Phoenix have also been increasing lately - it's been in the 70s and 80s.  So, I don't know if we are experiencing break in or if it's the temps or maybe a little of both.  I think I have seen posts in the past that said full break in does not occur until 10K or 20K miles.  On my Buick Lacrosse mild hybrid, it did seem like fuel mileage did gradually get better up until 20K miles

We used to have that message come on and off frequently on our '13 - it started when we started driving the CM up to our place in the mountains - I always thought it had something to do with the 5,000 ft change in elevation.  The light would be on for days, then go off for days, then come back on.  I remember reading that the fix was to replace the fuel filler neck, but we never bothered to take it in to have that done.  We no longer have that car - we now have a '15 CM and this car seems to have a very noticeably different looking capless system.  We have only gone about 3,300 miles on our '15, but the check fuel filler inlet has not ever gone on.  We also haven't driven it to the mountains either, but we did drive it to Las Vegas once and that includes an elevation change of about 3,000 ft (with no fuel filler messages).

Hey Paul - I know the CM is available in "real" leather, but it is not very luxurious, in my opinion; real or not, does the leather in the CM seem any better than the SofTex seat material in the RAV4?

 

Well I just got back from driving a RAV4 Hybrid, what a disappointment!  The only thing that is better than CMAX is ground clearance, AWD, wider and maybe reliability.  Visablity wasn't as good, one analog gauge for ICE/Hybrid/Charging functions which is borderline unless, it wouldn't let you figure out how to get better MPG's.  EV is gutless, only used to maintain slow speeds. Total HP is 194 compared to CMAX's lighter 188HP. It is an illusion that it is a bigger vehicle, hit my head getting in the backseat, there seamed to be a little more leg room back there.  Looking from the back there doesn't seam to be anymore space behind the rear seats other than the few inches of with, there was a skinny spare tire under the cover. With the seats down it didn't look like there was anymore lenght just wider. I got a brochure, the XLE didn't have electric seats and I doubt if many CMAX drivers if any would like driving this Mini SUV as opposed to the CMAX.  It's like maybe the first Prius technology or before.  Now that I think about it, it's like driving an ICE SUV rated at 34CTY/31HWY.  :drop:   :sad:  I thought TOYOTA would do better than this.

 

Paul 

 

 

Nice review - thanks Paul!  When I read about the RAV4 Hybrid, it really sounded better than the CM in a lot of ways...now it doesn't sound so hot.

I do not find the upgraded factory Sony system to be that much better than the base system.  It's just barely OK to me.  The C-Max is my wife's car - I drive a 2012 Lacrosse with the H-K system - that system is really nice and makes the Sony in the CM seem like a POC, and I also think it's too expensive for the marginally better sound it offers.

Hydraulically controlled roll bar?  I never heard of that.  That sounds pretty advanced to me.

I like the idea of the regen on demand paddle - it means you know all deceleration (actually, I think "negative acceleration" is technically more correct) is coming from regen...also, I wonder if the brake lights illuminate when using that paddle...???  Whenever possible, I like to apply the brakes very lightly for a long period to maximize regen, but sometimes I feel a little self conscious that people behind me think I am moping and riding the brakes (when I actually barely have them applied)

Yes, if you accidentally shift into R with the car moving forward, there is absolutely no noticeable ill effect...interestingly, the rear view/back up camera displays if so equipped.  Also, I think I noticed the throttle pedal has the opposite effect from normal - the more you step on the pedal, the slower the car goes, but I am not 100% on that.

I think the explanation why going down a hill in D would require some added EV energy input to maintain speed, but the car will increase speed in N is that shifting to N somehow disengages certain gears in the trans and those items have enough frictional losses to slow the car down in D.

For what it's worth, I might come across a place to coast 1-2 times a day.  I do not do it a lot, like Paul did on his recent trip to Phoenix (but I'm not being critical of what he did either).  I guess if i think about it, I would say I like to coast where there is a long, gradual to moderate grade...gradual enough to require feathering the throttle just to maintain speed, and not so steep that the car will increase in speed excessively, and with a level or uphill area at the bottom (so no stop sign/red light) .  Also, if I am on a known mountain road with a cross section similar to an inverted U or V, I might like to approach the summit at a slow speed (ex: 55MPH on a 65MPH road), shift to N at or near the summit, then coast until the car reaches ~ the speed limit (60-65MPH) and then shift back into D and let the downhill charge the HV battery.  I only do this on roads I know well, because it is not always effective or even safe to do.

It sure seems like it. LOL  But the Smart Gauge would show more gallons being used. Yesterdays fillup had Smart Gauge at 12.8 and actual was 13.85 gal.  I'm getting pretty good at coasting now. Last night I did 4 short trips for a total of 37.6 mi. and averaged 54mpg with temps from 32-36*F.  Amazing. :)

 

 

Empower Display shows instantaneous FE and Engineering Test Mode not practicable to use all the time.  

 

IMO The most important gauge for FE is an accurate WT gauge which the CMAX doesn't have unless you go into the engineering mode. You get the Best FE with WT above 202*F. I use IT, WT, TFT and SOC on my ScanGaugeII.  In my old pic I have instantaneous mpg.   :)

Paul - are you saying that you have tried coasting lately in N under certain circumstances, and you perceive a positive impact on MPG?  I noticed recently that in one downhill area where I usually coast and my speed increases somewhat, if I leave it in D, I have to us 1 to 1.5 bars of electric power just to maintain speed...so I have to believe N is more efficient than D...I am not recommending anyone else do it, nor am i commenting on it's legality, practicality, safety, or any other aspect...just talking about efficiency/impact on MPG

Actually, I think reliability of the 12V battery is one of the CMax's weak points - at least on early year models and more so on SE models.  The unfortunate thing is that apparently, the HVB cannot be used to boost the 12V battery...unlike my 2012 Lacrosse.  In the Lacrosse, my OE 12V battery died this past Summer, but there is some self boost mode in which the HVB is used to charge the 12V battery enough in 15-20 seconds to permit the engine to start, and it worked PERFECTLY!  It's strange that, overall, the C-Max is a much more advanced hybrid system and more advanced car overall than the Lacrosse, but there are some things that seem more backward - for example, no oil life % readout (although it is monitored/measured), no tire pressure readout (although it is monitored/measured) 

FYI

 

"The actual laws on "coasting" are not about putting the car in neutral, but actually shutting the engine off. In the 60s and 70s people would "coast" down hills with the engine off to save gas. Naturally, no engine power means no power steering, no power brakes, and a lot of accidents were being caused from this, so they outlawed this. Some states have laws about putting it in neutral or disengaging the clutch as well, but MA does not prohibit engine-on coasting in neutral. FL, OR, NM, CT, VA, RI all have no-coasting laws even with the engine on."

 

from https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130515042608AAvRyeP

Thank you for that.  It's interesting that MA is mentioned, because that is where I grew up and first learned about coasting in N (with the engine on) to save gas.  Yes, I think coasting in a regular car with the engine off is dangerous (of course we all do that all day long in our CMs, but that is different).  Also, from a wear and tear perspective, I believe most automatic transmissions can be damaged in the long run, by repeatedly turning the engine off and coasting, as this will result in the input shaft to the oil pump not rotating and therefore no transmission fluid circulating to lubricate the bearing and gears.  Actually, I think one of the issues with early CMs is with premature transmission bearing or bushing wear, caused by lack of adequate lubrication in EV mode.  I think I read that the Energi has a supplemental electric trans oil pump to address that issue - I'm not sure what the fix was for regular CMs

Plus 3 Golfer" The benefit gets back to added aero losses (coasting in neutral vs in gear) vs the regeneration penalty which is IMO more than most believe it is."  I agree with you on this.  I will keep trying this when it's convenient  It takes to much effort to do it all the time.

 

Going down the hills in Neutral, EV on flats and ICE up the hills, Basically P&G :)

 

Paul

There are sometimes long downhill slopes where the slope is gradual enough that I would need to use EV just to maintain speed, but which I can coast in Neutral and maintain or slightly gain speed, within safe limits; these slopes then level off or turn into an uphill slope - that is where I like to use N...but I am not proposing that anyone else do that, especially of they are morally, legally, or logically opposed to the idea.  I'm sure I spend <1% of my driving time coasting in N - I only mentioned it as what I consider to be the most efficient way to recapture the forward momentum of the vehicle, with friction brakes at the other end of the spectrum.  I do not spend my time constantly shifting from D to N...although I think I've read that in the Shell Eco Marathons, the drivers accelerate up to 20 or 30MPH, then shift to Neutral and actually turn the engine off and coast down to ~10 MPH before restarting the engine and accelerating again.  No, I would not advocate doing that on any public road.

Took the words right out of my keyboard, Steve.  There's a little mom-and-pop convenience store two blocks from my house.  Every time I go in there I could EASILY pocket a candy bar and get away with it.  Does that make it OK to steal candy bars?  Seriously, Rocco..........

 

Personally I couldn't care less if you drive down hills in neutral while texting your wife and eating a cheeseburger.  Couldn't care less.  But since we're on a forum and you're proposing dangerous advice to members, I'll weigh in with my two cents. 

OK, so I think you are saying that you would not do something that you consider morally wrong (theft, murder, embezzlement, adultery) even if you knew you would not be caught or punished...and I agree with you about that.

If there is a law that I do not embrace, but which harms no one else, yet which. if broken, I would likely be caught and punished - that's a law I may or may not follow (speeding, overtime parking).

If it's a law I don't agree with, with little likelihood of being caught/punished, and it's not a law I want to follow (voluntarily paying sales tax for internet purchases) - that's a law I will likely agnore.

I don't think I ever proposed any advice to anyone - I was just offering, for the discussion, what I do and that I feel it is more efficient, under certain circumstances, to use the momentum of the car directly, rather than convert the momentum to electrical energy and then back to forward motion.  I never brought 

I don't text while I drive - in fact, I hardly text at all.  But I was eating a Sausage Muffin with Egg and drinking coffee on the way to work today, however, it was after, not during, the coasting down the hill part of my commute.