Eco Cruise vs P&G vs ICE High MPG

[Jus-A-CMax]

So I have a little run that I do every other day. I have attached the route in this thread but for security reasons, I won't specify exactly where the start and final destination is, suffice to say that these start/end points are representative - it's to give you an idea of the terrain that I drive which I estimate to be approx 70% Freeway and 30% road (just don't go an*l on me for the percentages). 

 

Now, there is a gentle if imperceivable down slope from start to finish but you would not know it just driving a gas car. Unfortunately, as I learnt, being a hybrid car driver you notice the smallest of slopes.

 

The whole point of this exercise was to find which method gave me the most mileage for this route.

 

• Eco cruise, we all know about and  I set this to 62-63. On the street, I set this to 35.
•  
• P&G, we all know as well. This one I pulse to 65 and allowed it to drop to 60. Now, for this P&G I did not extend use of the EV as my goal was to build the battery levels up.
•  
• ICE High MPG. I really do not know what mode to call this. But its a technique that one of the posters described here where you keep the speed 58-60 with an almost full battery level and keep the ICE on so that the gauge will read 40+MPG thereby indicating the ICE giving the high mileage. As I stated before, I have seen this mode driving back and forth between Mammoth and San Fernando and at higher speeds but for this exercise, I stayed around the 58-60mph. It is really hard to do and you have to build the battery levels up to do this. I would say, this mode is almost dangerous and I was keeping more of an eye on the damn left gauge than on the road.

 

TEMPERATURES

We re having a little summer here in Los Angeles, so the runs were in 70 to 75. Little to no wind - bluebird day as we say at Mammoth.

 

PS wait till the warmer weather comes, you'll find all your MPGs skyrocketing up  :rockon:

 

 

ABOUT THE ROUTE

At the start, as it is my home, the battery is always at the 1/4 level. Its pretty consistent almost everyday that I start the drive in Max and it was consistent before each of the runs.

 

Major highways: 210, 118 and 170 and then Victory which is 3 lane major east/west arterial road for the valley community. This is a real live route that I take, along with the traffic and in all 3 instances, I had pretty clear traffic so it was not a factor in my test runs. The streets had the usual traffic light but it is what it is and in all 3 runs, I would rate the traffic the same. As this is not a purely scientific, to me, is was apples to apples as far as the roads and conditions go.

 

This is the map:

 

 

 

 

RESULTS

 

ICE High MPG 55MPG with 4.0EV 0.9 Regen and 02. gallons used

 

 

P&G 62.4MPG with 5.5EV, 1.6 Regen and 0.1 gallons used

 

 

 

Eco-Cruise 64.5MPG with 6.4EV 0.9 Regen and 0.1 gallons used

 

 

WINNER: Eco-cruise with 64.5MPG but not by much over P&G

Difference was in the EV miles, same amount of gas according to Max.

 

 

Here are my final thoughts:

ICE High, while cool, definitely burnt more gas and it shows. I had to recharge the battery to a decent level just to run in this mode so that took some more gas.

Pros: Nice find but not practical. It is very dangerous and hard to do this mode. Not recommended unless there is no traffic around you and you want to play. Battery level high as I hit Victory.

 

P&G. I thought this one was a winner. However, I held back and not utilize the EV as much as I could, just accelerate to the pulse speed and let her glide with no EV. I definitely could have extended the EV a lot more. I learnt something here, usually I P&G 70mph to 60mph but it may be more efficient to P&G 60-65mph. A lot less work and far more safer than ICE High but its still work. So many variations as well, no wonder its a hypermilers dream mode. Battery level high as I hit Victory.

 

Eco-cruise. Definitely a surprise. The computer did a mix of EV power and gas and let it run. Batteries were the least accumulated of the 3 methods when I hit Victory (I noted 1/2 level) but its the laziest and easy-peasy eco mode there is. Fascinating to watch the computer turn ICE on and off depending on the terrain and battery level. One comment here which did not appear in this test is that sometimes eco-cruise will stay more in the ICE mode when it could easily go down to the EV mode on the very slight down slopes. You could double tap the "-" on the cruise control to force it to go into EV but do take note that this means the cruise speed is also dropped a tad by double tapping which can be a nuisance at times.

 

So hope this helps the folks who are confused which mode is better but I do encourage other CMax owners to do their real world experiments and see which mode is better for them.

 

As I have always posted, I eco-cruise when I am lazy and P&G when I feel like playing....isn't it fun that Ford built this for us?

 

:)

 

[roninsd]

Jus, you're just having too much fun!

[C-MaxJaxon]

You can do a quick cancel/resume on the cruise to force it into EV mode instead of dropping speed a couple MPH. I think one way that the mileage can be improved with the eco cruise method is to strategically cancel the cruise when you see a slight hill coming that you know will force the engine on. Then back off the accelerator pedal slightly until the top of the hill, then use the cruise resume on the flat.

[Fits2at]

Great detailed info! Thanks Jus!!

[CNCGeek]

Great post!  I am interested in the ICE high mode - do you have more info on how that works?  Does it only work between 58-60mph?

[Jus-A-CMax]

Great post!  I am interested in the ICE high mode - do you have more info on how that works?  Does it only work between 58-60mph?

 

 

CNCGeek - similar method as prescribed here: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/979-cruise-at-50-mpg/

 

Recapping summarily, under the EV threshold:

1. Must have high battery level. 

2. I use empower mode so I know where the EV threshold is. With high battery level, kick the ICE on so the white bar appears (you'll see the EV double bar) - then drop the ICE white bar down slowly to keep it just above the EV double bar. You have to feather the pedal and really concentrate cause you know how sensitive the pedal is - which is why I stated its so dangerous when you have 100% of your eyes glued to that gauge and the levels.

 

Over 65mph, when the battery level is high, drop the ICE enough so that you maintain your speed and just cruise. On most level surface, I was able to get some ICE High MPGs and in some instances I could not, still toying with trying to figure out why though. 

 

Try it on your end and see how you go. I posted on the big mileage thread that I think it has to do with the higher battery level but at this time, I have no hard proof, just a conjecture so lets keep playing....

 

PS Today, I did another ICE high run on the 12 mile run as prescribed above and got 56MPG and temps were a tad higher at 78F so for my lil test run, it's pretty consistent. Got the photo but no time to post it up.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[wamba2000]

Thank you for posting your test results, and for trying the differnet modes.  All this is very helpful for us to adapt driving styles and maximize mpg.

 

I commute 8 miles to work daily, but on surface streets ( 3 lanes each direction, traffic lights, etc.)  If you have ever driven in Phoenix, you know the speed limit if 45, but traffic goes 55+ in most cases.

 

I have attempted in the couple weeks of having the CMax to stay in EV mode, but as you say, the pedal is so-o-o-o sensitive.  WHen the battery level gets down to about 1/3, the ICE seems to kick in.

 

I did manage to make it home from the grocery store over the weekend in all EV, a couple mile distance, and the Trip Summary showed my mileage at 165 mpg!!!  Wish my camera was ready for that!

 

Thanks again for the post.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Thank you for posting your test results, and for trying the differnet modes.  All this is very helpful for us to adapt driving styles and maximize mpg.

 

I commute 8 miles to work daily, but on surface streets ( 3 lanes each direction, traffic lights, etc.)  If you have ever driven in Phoenix, you know the speed limit if 45, but traffic goes 55+ in most cases.

 

I have attempted in the couple weeks of having the CMax to stay in EV mode, but as you say, the pedal is so-o-o-o sensitive.  WHen the battery level gets down to about 1/3, the ICE seems to kick in.

 

I did manage to make it home from the grocery store over the weekend in all EV, a couple mile distance, and the Trip Summary showed my mileage at 165 mpg!!!  Wish my camera was ready for that!

 

Thanks again for the post.

 

You're welcome! Feel free to snap the pics next time and post'em up here. For 8 miles, I am sure you can EV it all the way but you gotta have that battery high to start otherwise it's P&G. I did an 8 mile run from North Hollywood to Burbank and got something like 60+MPG with zero gallons (according to the Trip Summary) although - get this - I am sure I burnt some has with P&G in spots. Must have been miniscule...I got the pic of that somewhere.

[Tree63]

Great postings and details - thanks!

 

Recently I also have been surprised by doing better than expected with Eco-cruise.  Could it have something to do with ICE break-in?  Just over 2500 miles now.

 

Also with P&G in cold weather (below 0F these days), I am noticing occasionally cutover to EV from ICE is a bit hesitant.  Not a concern but slower than what I'm used to.

[Adair]

Jus,

 

I think I'm using a version of your ICE High MPG on these brutally cold days. It's been -9* to a high of + 9* these past few days and I can barely coax EV for a total of 4.5 out of my 17 miles to work. That's with using the remote start, heater and bun warmers all the way. But using the ICE High MPG at lower speeds on my back roads is allowing me not to lose any mpg and actually gain a smidgen over the course of the trip. The battery is still almost full when I get to work, which it never is. Still, with this weather, plus my husband driving a couple of times, and this is gonna be my worst tank so far. The good news is...........Spring is just around the corner, right guys? RIGHT?

[Jus-A-CMax]

Jus,

 

I think I'm using a version of your ICE High MPG on these brutally cold days. It's been -9* to a high of + 9* these past few days and I can barely coax EV for a total of 4.5 out of my 17 miles to work. That's with using the remote start, heater and bun warmers all the way. But using the ICE High MPG at lower speeds on my back roads is allowing me not to lose any mpg and actually gain a smidgen over the course of the trip. The battery is still almost full when I get to work, which it never is. Still, with this weather, plus my husband driving a couple of times, and this is gonna be my worst tank so far. The good news is...........Spring is just around the corner, right guys? RIGHT?

 

Adair - I heard there was a brutal cold front going eastward now.

 

I know exactly what you mean, I saw this myself as I was driving from Crowley Lake to Mammoth town where it was 0, -4F, -0, -2F. I recall that time I was using P&G but the glide part was like glue on the tires, little roll. EV, what EV - the cold sucks out any power in that mode. I was practically ICE on all the way and I did not know about the ICE High Mode, only see saw it but did not put 1+1 together with the battery.

 

I think and someone may prove me right or wrong, that battery has more influence on the ICE than we think to a point where its not worth dropping the batt levels below 1/2 but rather to keep it as high as possible. Which is why, if you notice in eco-cruise, the batts do not drain all the way, its usually in the middle. Ford engineers have designed the software around keeping it at mid level as a compromise btwn performance of ICE & EV mode. Jus my observations.

 

Good to hear the ICE High MPG mode is working for you but please be careful, its difficult to drive in that mode where you need to keep an eye on that white bar in empower mode (at least for me).

 

Yes, spring is coming around the corner, get past Superbowl and hang in there!!!!!  :rockon: 

[asb]

Thanks for this.  I have a long commute.  Some of it is on city streets, but most of it is on a highway.  Depending on traffic, I can go anywhere from 50 mph to 70 mph.  I just picked up the car last night, found the eco-cruise mode and turned it on.  I'm a lazy driver because I have mobility issues on my right side which makes me a "lead foot."  My preference is to set the cruise control so I can take my foot off the pedal.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Thanks for this.  I have a long commute.  Some of it is on city streets, but most of it is on a highway.  Depending on traffic, I can go anywhere from 50 mph to 70 mph.  I just picked up the car last night, found the eco-cruise mode and turned it on.  I'm a lazy driver because I have mobility issues on my right side which makes me a "lead foot."  My preference is to set the cruise control so I can take my foot off the pedal.

 

Congratulations asb, you'll  :wub2:  the car. You're on the right track as your car is so new, it will take time for the engine and components to break in so stick it into eco-cruise and just enjoy the ride. Once you're familiar with it and want to play - have FUN. Remember, keep that battery high and don't drain it till its out. I use to do that and not realizing that the ICE does work alot better even above the EV speed with the battery up high or nearly full. 

 

 Keep posting asb and lets us know what you think of the car and how you're going with it... :rockon:

[roninsd]

It seems to be a delicate (mechanical) balancing act of using the battery energy, and then the ICE/braking raising the level in the battery.  I did an 80 mi. mainly freeway Eco Cruise trip the other day, and got a nice 40.x mpg.  I guess it's a matter of trusting the car!

[asb]

I'm at 38 mpg after yesterday's driving.  But my short hops around town are all over 40 mpgs.  I was watching how quickly the battery drains.  I'll need to do a bit more research on ICE and how to keep that battery level up.

[MacGyver]

Thank you for posting your test results, and for trying the differnet modes.  All this is very helpful for us to adapt driving styles and maximize mpg.

 

I commute 8 miles to work daily, but on surface streets ( 3 lanes each direction, traffic lights, etc.)  If you have ever driven in Phoenix, you know the speed limit if 45, but traffic goes 55+ in most cases.

 

I have attempted in the couple weeks of having the CMax to stay in EV mode, but as you say, the pedal is so-o-o-o sensitive.  WHen the battery level gets down to about 1/3, the ICE seems to kick in.

 

I did manage to make it home from the grocery store over the weekend in all EV, a couple mile distance, and the Trip Summary showed my mileage at 165 mpg!!!  Wish my camera was ready for that!

 

Thanks again for the post.

I've gotten in the habit of activating my cell camera before shutting the car off to document mpg, if you miss the picture, you can hit the start button again and it will still show the same trip mpg if you hit the down arrow steering wheel button.

[Recumpence]

I am going on a trip on the expressway today. I will do some more highway testing and let you guys know if I    learn anything new.

 

I plan on testing the difference between 62 and 66mph to see what I find regarding engine only running and ev hybrid running. All testing will be done with eco cruise.

 

Matt

[Recumpence]

I found the highway sweetspot for my car. It is right at 64.5 to 65mph. Above 67mph, the mileage drops noticeably. Below 64, EV kicks in.

 

This was a perfectly flat, level stretch of expressway with no wind that I know of. Temperature is 55 degrees outside. This was sustained speed, I was not decellerating or going downhill at the time.

 

The trip averaged 47mpg by the time we arrived at home. So, the entire trip was not over 50mpg. But, this gives you an idea of what is possible if you pay attention to your car and are willing to experiment a bit. Oh, you will notice the battery was charging when this picture was taken. It was not a high MPG anomaly due to electric aid being given or some other reason.

 

Again, I obviously did not average 50+ mpg on this trip. I arrived home at 47. However, highway speeds can be high MPG if you drive just out of EV speed, but below 70. I am sure each car differs a touch in this regard.

 

Also, there was no Hyper-Miling done on this trip. I was not drafting (my wife hates it when I draft, so I do not when she is with me).

 

Oh, I noticed that Engage is cool when running at ICE only speeds because you can see just how much EV aid is being given when road inclines approach.

 

Matt

Edited April 21, 2013 by Recumpence

[RachelnLa]

Awesome! Took a trip to the camp over the weekend and played with this. I went 68 mph and it was registering 40mpg. I was happy with that! But seeing this makes me want to hit the road again. Sweet indeed!!

[Recumpence]

I have found 43mpg is always doable with my car using this method. The 53mpg you saw was for a stretch of road that was a few miles long. When I saw the mileage greeping up as I experimented with speed, I grabbed my phone, turn on the camera, and took several pictures until I got one that was clear enough to read. All the while, it was 52 to 54mpg. It stayed like that for some time.

 

Now, I have to say that this is not as simple as hitting cruise and going. You have to run up to a few mph higher than you feel is correct, then set the Eco-Cruise. Once set, drop 1mph and observe. Drop one more mph and observe. My drive went something like this;

 

69mph, 38mpg  -- 68mph, 40.2mpg---- 67mph, 43mpg---- 66mph, 47mpg---- 65mph, 53mpg.  It was really weird. There is something going on with the overall layout of the areodynamics, the ICE and EV interaction, computer programming, and rolling resistance that somehow all hit a sweet-spot (like the planets coming into alignment) and all of a sudden the MPG skyrockets.

 

You have to realize, however, that any variance in road incline, wind, or other negative things can adversely affect this. But, I have to say, I am a believer at this point.

 

Oh, also, I have found it impossible to maintain this high MPG manually. You absolutely have to use cruise to see these high numbers for any length of time.

 

Matt

[Tree63]

I agree - when doing long highway hauls (>250km or >150miles), I've been getting best numbers on straight eco-cruise.  Nothing compared to city numbers but I'm making first spring-temperature run this week and will see what we get.

[wab]

I have found 43mpg is always doable with my car using this method. The 53mpg you saw was for a stretch of road that was a few miles long. When I saw the mileage greeping up as I experimented with speed, I grabbed my phone, turn on the camera, and took several pictures until I got one that was clear enough to read. All the while, it was 52 to 54mpg. It stayed like that for some time.

 

Now, I have to say that this is not as simple as hitting cruise and going. You have to run up to a few mph higher than you feel is correct, then set the Eco-Cruise. Once set, drop 1mph and observe. Drop one more mph and observe. My drive went something like this;

 

69mph, 38mpg  -- 68mph, 40.2mpg---- 67mph, 43mpg---- 66mph, 47mpg---- 65mph, 53mpg.  It was really weird. There is something going on with the overall layout of the areodynamics, the ICE and EV interaction, computer programming, and rolling resistance that somehow all hit a sweet-spot (like the planets coming into alignment) and all of a sudden the MPG skyrockets.

 

You have to realize, however, that any variance in road incline, wind, or other negative things can adversely affect this. But, I have to say, I am a believer at this point.

 

Oh, also, I have found it impossible to maintain this high MPG manually. You absolutely have to use cruise to see these high numbers for any length of time.

 

Matt

 

I can see a future Myth Busters Episode

 

"Do you get better MPG @ 65 or 60"

 

Everybody knows you get better MPG at lower speeds.

 

C-Max @ 62 mph = 47 MPG

C-Max @ 65 mph = 53 MPG

 

BUSTED

[Jus-A-CMax]

MPGomatic reported the opposite...interesting indeed  :drool: