Flushing Anti-Freeze; Coolant & Hybrid Systems

[Telerisk]

My 2016 C-Max is 5 years old....which means, according to the Ford maintenance Schedule....the Engine Coolant  and ...maybe if its separate...Hybrid Battery coolant needs to be flushed and replaced.

 

Vehicle has 14,000 Miles on it....I think Coolant losses its protection qualities by both Mileage (50,000 Recommended) and years...in my case again, vehicle is over 5 years old.

 

Here what is very perplexing...I called 3 Ford dealers, Flushing Engine Coolant and New Anti-Freeze...$150.00.  If its done right I have no issues...but my guess is, they drain, and refill...no flushing.  But even more concerning...I asked about the coolant in the C-max's Hybrid Battery System...and no one, at least the Service Advisors had any clue of what I was referring to....

 

One dealer that checked further told me, the Engine Coolant and Hybrid Battery are the same system cooling system....so one Drain, Flush and re-fill covers both the Engine and Battery Coolant....  IS THIS TRUE? 

 

One Dealer after checking further came back....said he had never heard of the C-Max having a Hybrid Battery Coolant System no less one that needed Coolant replaced...but said if there is 2 separate Engine and Hybrid Battery systems...it would be $150.00 Each to Drain/Flush and add new Coolant.

 

The 3rd dealer said, there was 2 Separate Coolant systems, one for Engine, the other for Hybrid Battery....cost $150.00 each.

 

So 3 Ford dealers and 3 Different Answers....and the reason I am perplexed...as there can only be ONE Right answer.

 

Hopefully someone reading this Posts has actually drain/Flushed/re-filled the Cooling System in their 2016 (sure earlier models may have same design) and can respond with the right answers....

 

Does the 2016 Ford C-Max have 1 Cooling system that cools/circulates Coolant and therefore one Flush re-news both the engine and Hybrid battery cooling system?

 

Does the 2016 Ford C-Max have 2 Separate Cooling systems....therefore each would need to be flushed and re-newed?

 

Does the 2016 Ford C-Max Engine Cooling System have a Drain...or is it drained by removing the bottom Radiator Hose?

 

If the Hybrid battery IS a separate Cooling system requiring a separate Drain....does it have its own Drain Plug, if so, where is it located?

 

I have more confidence in the responses I will get from this Forum than I do from certified Ford Dealers....

 

 

[Telerisk]

I decided to stop being so stupid and see if there was a maintenance schedule Manual that came with my 2016 Ford C-Max.  

 

Page 223 in the 2016's owner manual..."Your vehicle has TWO separate cooling systems.  One is for cooling the engine and one is for cooling the Inverter system controller that is specific to the hybrid Operating system".  So that answers one of my questions.  I wish it had read instead of Inverter...Battery system but sure they are one of the same.  Manual outlines how to check and add coolant to each system but does not have any details as to Draining and renewing...the steps to follow.

 

But here's what seems the real answer I needed....Page 353 in the Owners manual..."Scheduled maintenance"...."AT 100,000 miles/Change engine coolant and motor /electronics coolant".  Further there is a footnote. Initial replacement at six years or 100,000 miles, then every three years or 50,000 miles".

 

I just don't understand why terminology cannot be consistent,  one place in the Manual it refers to the Hybrid system as the Inverter system, and in the Scheduled maintenance refers to it as...Electronics Coolant.

 

My 2016 C-Max with less than 13,000 Miles on it and now Just 5 years old....per Ford's Owners Manual...I have an entire Year to go before it reaches 6 Yeras the recommended Coolant Service and this car under my ownership will never have 100K miles on it.

 

So this perplexes me even more with the 3 Ford dealers...and large dealerships at that...1st not knowing there were 2 Separate Cooling systems....and I told each the age and Miles I had on the car...and all 3 did not advise both Ford Installed Coolant systems per Ford do not need service until 6yeras or 100,000 Miles.  Surely any of the 3 dealers would have graciously taken my money for needed not yet required per Ford.  

 

Await comments.  

 

 

[Lacienega]

I stopped trusting the dealer, sometimes you get better service from a small independent repair shop. My dealer seems to have too many cars to work on and they are on a tight schedule, so it seems they work more like on one of these  quick lube places. Just trying to get the car out as quick as possible. Since I've started doing my own service, I've noticed a lot of sloppy work was done from them. Like some screws are missing from the under engine cover and my lug nuts are swollen from overtightening with the impact gun.

[SnowStorm]

Comments:

• The HVB is air cooled by its own fan in the back (see picture of mine).  Air is drawn from inside the car - those vents in the back that you're not supposed to cover up!).
• The "Inverter System Controller" is cooled by its own liquid coolant system that, as you now know, is separate from the engine coolant.  The Inverter System Controller is mounted on top of the transmission.  It takes the DC electric power from the HVB and "inverts" it to AC power to drive the electric motors inside the transmission.  (Of course during regen, power flows the other way round.)  Tens of kilowatts can flow through the inverter with a small potion ending up as heat - so it needs cooling.
• The Inverter System Controller cooling system has nothing to do with the HVB or the electric motors - just that box of electronics.
• (The electric motors get cooled by the transmission fluid.)
• I don't know if there is a drain point for either system.

Right or wrong, I never changed my coolant before my transmission was replaced at 172k miles - only added a bit now and then.  As I've said before, don't buy the SnowStorm maintenance contract!

[Telerisk]

Are you saying, you won't change the coolant in the Inverter until or if your Transmission needs replacement?  But is the same true as to your Engine Coolant?  Anti-freeze not only coos it protects and Lubs cooling parts and over Mileage\Years those properties diminish.  It is for these reasons I would and if I have my car when it is 6 years Old....I will Flush and re-new the Coolant for sure in the Engine, may put off that change in the Inverter.  I am surprised no one has been able to tell me if there is even a Drain for the Inverter Cooling system...even the 3 Ford dealers I called.  Now that I see the 6yr\100K miles before the 1st Drain/New Anti-freeze I am more at ease...but really; the Ford dealers should know this.  true, the C-Max is no longer in production...but the Fusion I believe is...and it has if not the same Hybrid design...it sure must be close.  But wait, the C-Max was released in 2012...and discontinued in 2018....that should have been sufficient C-Max's in a Ford dealer for various repairs that Ford dealers should be familiar with how to performed Maintenance....   I hate feeling like if I Take my C-Max in that the tech has little to no idea how to proceed to perform the work.  I have had my Oil\Filter chged at the dealers since I purchased it.....but this year I may have that maintenance done elsewhere.   

[cr08]

Managed to pull this from the workshop manual CD I have for my 2013. It does have the procedure for drain/fill/bleeding the hybrid coolant system. Also included the listed procedures for trans fluid drain and fill. So the procedures are there. It may be terminology throwing people for a loop. As noted, the inverter cooling system has nothing to do with the HVB cooling. So wouldn't be surprised if someone not familiar with the vehicle is unaware of the second cooling system or how to work on it.

 

EDIT: Added the ICE coolant procedures as well just for completeness.

 

2013_cmax_hybridcoolantdrainfill.pdf 2013_cmax_transdrainfill.pdf

2013_cmax_ICEcoolantdrainfill.pdf

Edited May 3, 2021 by cr08

[fbov]

This point has caught many of us....

 

Another thing to consider is engine usage. Depending on your driving style, roads and terrain, you may have as much as 50% EV, meaning the engine is on only half the time, and EV is on half the time. The new car has added that to the oil monitor; 40$ EV got me to 15.7K miles for a 10K true oil mileage. I see no need to follow maintenance schedules of a non-hybrid, in the areas where hybrids differ. It does reduce tire rotation, if you do it at oil changes, but that's about it. 

[jbeast]

Could you repost the PDF's in this thread? It is currently showing as unavailable when I try to view/download them. 

[jbeast]

On 11/17/2021 at 6:32 PM, jbeast said:

Could you repost the PDF's in this thread? It is currently showing as unavailable when I try to view/download them. 

Thanks, I was able to download all three PDF's today.

[ChrisV]

Hello everyone:

So I am now going to add my personal experience from today. Christmas Day I hit something, ripped off the belly pan. Didn't think much of it until Sunday morning when I look under my car and I've got ATF everywhere. Freaked out, take it to the shop. They replace the transmission coolant radiator. $667 later I'm driving home. Car freaks out, giving me the "motor-coolant temperature overheating." I immediately have a wtf moment. I realize ATF and coolant are different so stop by the store, all they have is universal coolant.... so go with it. Fill the reservoir: the big 1 on the left. Get maybe 3 miles.... same light, car's freaking out. Open the hood, reservoir still full. Again, wtf?!?! See the tiny reservoir in the middle, above the engine cover, open it - it's bone dry. As of right now I have filled that up and we'll see what happens......

[Nervous but Excited]

Hey @ChrisV could you tell us more about how you managed to do the damage? Were you on a dirt road? If so, how bad was the dirt road? I am considering buying a C-Max, but slightly worried about the low clearance as I want to be able to reach trail heads and rock climbing crags. 

[ChrisV]

@Nervous but ExcitedThe Cmax has no clearance. 4 to 5 inches at best. Wouldn't take it off blacktop unless absolutely necessary. Fact is, I was on the freeway and something jumped up and hit the belly pan, knocking that off and in turn hitting the ATF radiator. The thing I've had a hard time understanding is why it didn't take out the main radiator first. Maybe something bounced; who knows.

 

But to your point - this is a commuter, delivery, or Uber/Lyft car. If you intend to take a car on *anything* with a mess of potholes, I wouldn't get this one.

[VChief101]

On 5/3/2021 at 3:19 PM, cr08 said:

Unable to find this procedure,  does anyone have it?

 

 

2013_cmax_hybridcoolantdrainfill.pdfUnavailable 2013_cmax_transdrainfill.pdfUnavailable

2013_cmax_ICEcoolantdrainfill.pdfUnavailable

 

[Lacienega]

On 5/3/2021 at 10:35 AM, Telerisk said:

Are you saying, you won't change the coolant in the Inverter until or if your Transmission needs replacement?  But is the same true as to your Engine Coolant?  Anti-freeze not only coos it protects and Lubs cooling parts and over Mileage\Years those properties diminish.  It is for these reasons I would and if I have my car when it is 6 years Old....I will Flush and re-new the Coolant for sure in the Engine, may put off that change in the Inverter.  I am surprised no one has been able to tell me if there is even a Drain for the Inverter Cooling system...even the 3 Ford dealers I called.  Now that I see the 6yr\100K miles before the 1st Drain/New Anti-freeze I am more at ease...but really; the Ford dealers should know this.  true, the C-Max is no longer in production...but the Fusion I believe is...and it has if not the same Hybrid design...it sure must be close.  But wait, the C-Max was released in 2012...and discontinued in 2018....that should have been sufficient C-Max's in a Ford dealer for various repairs that Ford dealers should be familiar with how to performed Maintenance....   I hate feeling like if I Take my C-Max in that the tech has little to no idea how to proceed to perform the work.  I have had my Oil\Filter chged at the dealers since I purchased it.....but this year I may have that maintenance done elsewhere.   

The inverter cooling system does not have a drain plug and you need to remove the hose close to the pump to drain it. I believe it only takes less than 1 quart of coolant.

The engine radiator has a drain plug and something to connect a hose on to it for draining...so you don't spill the coolant all over the place.

I don't know how much coolant you would need when you just drain and refill the radiator from the drain plug though.

Anybody knows?

[cr08]

This is what I pulled from my '13's owners manual. For the sake of the search engine:

 

Engine coolant - Hybrid model: 7.4 quarts (7L)

Engine coolant - Energi model: 8.8 quarts (8.3L)

Inverter system controller cooant: 1.1 quarts (1L)

[Lacienega]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:44 PM, cr08 said:

This is what I pulled from my '13's owners manual. For the sake of the search engine:

 

Engine coolant - Hybrid model: 7.4 quarts (7L)

Engine coolant - Energi model: 8.8 quarts (8.3L)

Inverter system controller cooant: 1.1 quarts (1L)

I know, I already saw that. But that is the total amount of coolant if you could get your system completely empty. I don't think from the drain plug you would get everything out. Just a drain and refill amount, not a complete flush.