Any advice on Hybrid Battery warranty replacement, how to tell?

[bigapplempv]

Hello, first post here. Great forum, didn't see anything around this question:

I bought a high mileage 2016 C-Max Hybrid SEL in the fall, and will be nearing the 100k mile mark as well as crossing the six year warranty expiration soon. (By the way, is it six years counted from "Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original dealer" late 2015 or from "vehicle sold" mid 2016?)

The car works fine, and we're getting 37 MPG with some trips into the 50MPG region, but is very hard to run without the ICE starting up all the time. It would be good to compare notes with someone else: is my Hybrid battery dying, and if so, how easy is it to get it replaced under warranty?

Even with the Hybrid battery over half, or even near full, I can barely leave a red light without the ICE kicking in. I accelerate softly, stay under 1 bar out of 3 on the available electric Power meter, still the ICE surges up. If on the other hand, I press the accelerator lightly enough to not get the ICE started, I'm guaranteed some honking horns, and barely get to 10-15mph before the next red light.

 

Is there a comparison or a test I can run, or some diagnostic the Ford dealership can run? Does anyone else have the experience to say "that sounds right" or "that sounds off" – I've only ever driven this one C-max. 

In short, does anyone have experience with asking for/receiving a new Hybrid battery under warranty?

 

Thanks!

Edited May 18, 2021 by bigapplempv
photo covered the text

[jzchen]

Warranties usually start on the in-service date, so date first sold/leased.

Edited May 18, 2021 by jzchen

[takingittothemax]

I live right next to NYC, and when I first got my 2014 SEL Hybrid (second hand last year), I too had the gas engine starting up every dang time even when I just needed to move the car to other side of the street for street cleaning on a nice warm day.

 

My problem was that I had EV+ enabled. This feature detects when you're near home, and switches the car to all EV mode. Which is nice and all, but it often meant my battery went from 3/4 full to 1/4 because when I'm near home, I have to stop every 1000ft for a traffic light or stop sign.

 

After I turned EV+ off, the car HVB is often 1/2 to 3/4 full when I get back to a parking spot near home. That way if it's not too cold out, and I just need to move my car a few spaces or down the street, I can do it without the engine starting.

[fbov]

First of all, welcome and glad you're happy with the car. It does take some learning; I seriously doubt your high voltage battery (HVB) is weak; only Energi's kill the battery (see below). Nothing you say sounds off. It is very hard to drive it without using the internal combustion engine (ICE), but remember, all electrical energy comes from gasoline in a Hybrid.  The ICE must run some of the time, especially below freezing. 

 

Most of us use a different view: "Empower: Power (with engine on/off threshold) + Avg Fuel Economy + Battery Gauge + Fuel Gauge" is how my 2013 manual describes it. The key is the ICE on/off threshold as this allows you to see what EV you really have available before ICE kicks in.  Learning to stay in EV from a stop is called "chasing blue" because it takes a gentle foot to follow the rise in the blue outline. From a light, chasing blue to 15 MPH is doing very well. 

 

And I would turn EV+ on and leave it on. EV+ gives you full EV power from a depleted HVB when you're close to places you park. It insure the HVB charge is low when you park, and that's highly desirable. The two threats to Li-ion battery life are heat and overcharging. You can't control ambient temperature so Ford gave you a way to be sure you always park with low charge. Energi (plug-in variant) HVB get weak if you keep them fully charged. Charging in the Arizona sun just makes things worse. 

 

So, stop thinking the C-Max Hybrid is an electric car. It's a gas car that gets a lot more miles out of each gallon because of the battery and motors. 

 

If you want more info, just ask. I'm holding back for fear of swamping you. 

Frank

[SnowStorm]

I second the use of EV+ and Empower view.  As to acceleration, its generally better to go ahead and kick on the ICE when, or soon after, starting off from a stop.  Let the ICE accelerate the car and charge the battery some at the same time.  Then use EV when less power is needed - level, coasting, down hill, etc.  The reason is that an ICE is very inefficient at light load.  When its running, you want to have a significant load on it.  (That's the whole point of having a hybrid in the first place.)  I generally accelerate at about "2 bars" on the Empower screen.  That's not "flooring it" but its fairly brisk, keeps folks from getting annoyed, is more fun, AND should be more efficient.  The C-Max is very responsive to throttle so "step on it" a bit and enjoy it!  (At least it doesn't seem to have hurt me much.  At 218k miles my Lifetime figure is about 48 mpg.)

[ptjones]

Interesting that I have always had my 2013 CMAX  in EV+ and I use a ScanGaugeII to monitor SOC (State of Charge).  There is more to this story, I have found that if you stop for an hour or two and your SOC is around 40% -44% actual as displayed by ScanGaugeII when you shut off the car, the SOC won't change much. But if your SOC is below 40% like the other evening when I got home my SOC was 37% and in the morning it was 26%, the lowest I have ever seen it.  Of course the ICE started immediately, the ICE will start anytime the SOC is below 33%. When the SOC is above 44% when car is shut off and then turned on a few hours later the SOC will go up, last night it was 47% SOC and this morning 57%.  SOC gauge reads from 33-65% SOC actual so you can only use 32% SOC normally.  You can force the SOC to go higher by arriving home with 55% SOC and in the morning you could have 70% SOC. IIRC I got home from a long trip with SOC in the high 50's and in the morning it was 80%, what a blast to drive like an Energi ? and could have gone 3 miles if I kept the speed below 35 mph. I heard that this change is caused from the HVB module balancing the level of the individual cells when car is shut down.

 

Paul

[bigapplempv]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:25 PM, fbov said:

Nothing you say sounds off. 

…

Most of us use a different view: "Empower: Power (with engine on/off threshold) + Avg Fuel Economy + Battery Gauge + Fuel Gauge

…

And I would turn EV+ on and leave it on.
…

If you want more info, just ask. I'm holding back for fear of swamping you. 

Frank

Thanks Frank, that's extremely informative. I will try to use Empower instead.

Just found out how to turn on EV+ in the manual (pg. 98), I'll make sure it's on. I don't have Navigation, does the car still have a GPS, or can it use the iPhone if it's plugged in through USB/CarPlay?

Would love any other advice or links you have, I'm already trying to beat myself on the acceleration, breaking, coasting scores. The Leaves view don't seem precise enough to teach me anything.

[bigapplempv]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:33 PM, takingittothemax said:

I live right next to NYC,

Thanks. Any advice on good local service or mechanics? I called the nearest dealer shop to get some quotes but they didn't seem very interested, and never returned the calls with quotes or info as promised.

[bigapplempv]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:03 PM, SnowStorm said:

I second the use of EV+ and Empower view. 

…
At 218k miles my Lifetime figure is about 48 mpg.)

 

Wow, 218k!! I was worried that this one was perhaps too high mileage, but the Ford dealer who checked it before I bought it said the worst he saw was some rust on the back break discs.
I did have to top up some coolant fluid (engine + inverter) mid winter. Probably time to check oil level, too.
How often do you change oil, rotate wheels, etc?
Anything you advice getting checked or replaced ahead of schedule, as I near 100k?

[bigapplempv]

On 5/19/2021 at 2:41 PM, ptjones said:

…
I use a ScanGaugeII to monitor SOC (State of Charge).

…

Paul

Cool. Does it influence your driving behavior, or is it just "the more you know"? What other data do you monitor, besides S.O.C?

Would love to read up on it, I bought a FIXD OBD scanner at some point, but haven't unpacked it. 

[cr08]

9 hours ago, bigapplempv said:

Just found out how to turn on EV+ in the manual (pg. 98), I'll make sure it's on. I don't have Navigation, does the car still have a GPS, or can it use the iPhone if it's plugged in through USB/CarPlay?

 

The car does have a built in GPS receiver even if it doesn't have factory navigation. It is used for other functions such as EV+ but also 911 assist and the compass display.

 

On early Sync 1 and Sync 2 vehicles, Ford used to have a paid service where you could still get turn by turn directions even without factory nav that would rely on this GPS unit. It was a very basic but ingenious system where it'd use your phone to dial out to their service and when you asked for directions it'd download some data over the call similar to an old school dialup modem and the vehicle would use that combined with the internal GPS receiver to give you basic turn by turn voice prompts. Sadly that has since been shut down.

 

I'm a bit hazy on the details but I believe some apps on CarPlay or Android Auto will also use the internal GPS receiver in the vehicle rather than the one in the phone. The reverse, however, is not possible. The vehicle's own functions will only use its own receiver.

Edited May 21, 2021 by cr08

[SnowStorm]

10 hours ago, bigapplempv said:

...rust on the back break discs.
How often do you change oil, rotate wheels, etc?
Anything you advice getting checked or replaced ahead of schedule, as I near 100k?

Rear brake "rust" was a problem for me after the law was changed to require "full contact".  Mine had developed bands (as many others have seen) that were interpreted as not being "full contact" so no one would pass them.  I think they were quite OK but I had to get new ones to pass inspection.  Front brakes are still original!  Sometimes I shift to N and brake hard to try and keep off any rust - don't know how much it will help.

I use synthetic oil and go several thousand over the 10k limit.

Tires should be rotated at least every 10k as Ford says or you can end up with cupping and noise.  My Michelin dealer rotates every 5k miles for free so that's when I do it.  I didn't rotate my first set enough and they cupped badly and got real noisy - one passenger asked if I was running snow tires!

I don't do any early maintenance - I'm rather lax, I'm afraid.

[ptjones]

10 hours ago, bigapplempv said:

Cool. Does it influence your driving behavior, or is it just "the more you know"? What other data do you monitor, besides S.O.C?

Would love to read up on it, I bought a FIXD OBD scanner at some point, but haven't unpacked it. 

I use the ScanGaugell to make decisions on how to drive all the time, like how long to use EV and when not to use it.

 

Paul

[stolenmoment]

I drive my Energi mostly one-pedal, so my brakes look *horrible*.  I have to carefully pick where I got for inspections.

 

A friend's BMW i3 has the same problem, but his Tesla doesn't.  We joke that they must polish them or something like that.

[ptjones]

With 270k miles I haven't touched the brakes yet, I rarely drive on snowy treated roads and my LifeTime braking Score is 98%.

 

Paul

[fbov]

Representing the other side of brake corrosion, I also had a regen score north of 95%, and I got 55K on the front rotors before they dissolved. Back brakes only made 50K due to a stuck piston taking out the rotor, happened again at 55K when it finally got fixed. 

 

But then, we get 8' of snow a year, falling at about an inch a day. Lots of salt....