ThatAutGuy Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi, First of all sorry if this whole post is not completely on-topic - but I really needed to find some people that actually know what they're doing. Because it's definitely not me. I leased a new C-Max this past Wednesday; my wife and I just had a baby, and my car (a Fiesta) ended up being way, way too small for the baby + car seat + stroller + my wife's wheelchair (she's a paraplegic). We actually went to look for the Escape, but I fell in love with the C-Max - and then I did just about everything wrong. I went for the SE because it had really everything I needed. My first big mistake was that I was in a rush - with my wife tired from her day, and the newborn baby with us (and fussy). I made the big, big mistake of focusing on the payment, not the price - and kind of accepted a payment that was about $90 more than my Fiesta's payment. I know we passingly talked about the sticker price of the car, but that was it. As I keep going, I realize I'm definitely the dumb one in this story - I know I did everything wrong in the book, and deserve whatever the outcome is if I really got ripped off... We signed the lease paperwork, etc. (which of course took forever, and both my wife and I made the mistake of reading through it but only focusing on the payments). When I got a chance to look at it in detail at home, it shows under "Agreed Value" of the car a price of $30,000 plus some change. The interest rate charged is super low, so the payment comes to what I expected - but it seems the dealer just flat out charged $4000 over sticker. I reached out to the sales person who said something about the residual value being the reason for the $30,000 price; after researching it more I really feel like I was just severely ripped off though. Again, I know: I did everything wrong in the book here, and I deserve whatever happened (I'm not an experienced car buyer). I just wanted to see if anyone can tell me if I really got ripped off as badly as I think I was. Plus, while I know that a contract is a contract and there's nothing I can do about it anymore - what would you do? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Welcome to the forum. I see an SE based on your profile that you entered here for this site. However, what upgrades did you have on it? Base price of an SE is $25,200 and just me playing with the ford.com "build your car" and throwing in all the niceties, it came to $30,209. So this is what I would do to check, go to Ford.com and build your own SE, add in all the package and niceties - and they should be stated in the contract, and then see if you got ripped off or not, and then let us know. :) Edited February 10, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 What are the terms of the lease (money down, length, payment, residual value, miles allowed and so forth)? What options are on your SE? What does the $30 k include? There are a lot of factors to consider in determining whether the lease makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatAutGuy Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 So here's the terms: Monthly payment $39936 months long, $3000 down, $1750 in dealer incentives, Residual Value $14817, 10,500 miles / year There's no options on the SE. The Gross Capitalized cost including Wear & Care, Maintenance, and acquisition fee is 31,925. Net Capitalized cost is $27175 after the money down. The money factor is 0.00075, so effectively about 1.8% financing charge. On the itemization of the cost, "agreed upon value of the vehicle", is listed as $30,125 + cost for maintenance plan, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtberman Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Capitalized cost is the selling price of the car, meaning you paid $31925. What is maintenance and wear n care? Maybe you also got some extras. But regardless, this is not a good deal. A base (200A package) C Max SE lists for $25,995. The cap cost on this car should be no more than $25,000, or almost $7000 less than the cap cost you're describing. That's not acceptable. I personally would raise a huge ass stink and demand they re-do this deal at $289 per month, as advertised (see below). Tell them, politely, that you're going to go on Yelp, Craigslist, Ford's Facebook site and anywhere else you can think of and tell the world that they did a bait and switch, and took advantage of you as a family with a distracting fussy new baby. Hell, tell them you think the salesman might have pinched your baby. Because this deal is just so egregiously bad, which I personally think entitles you to do and say whatever you want. If they think it's worth it to force you to keep the car and the deal, then that's their choice. At that point, you can write up a simple summary of how they took advantage of you and your young family, and start posting it all over town. Google reviews, yellow pages sites, you name it. Naturally, you should offer an alternative. Tell them you want the advertised South Florida lease deal shown below. It's on the Ford website. Seriously, though, don't feel bad. You made a mistake, big deal. We have all done something like this. Now go fix it. South Florida Lease: http://www.fordspecialevent.com/vehicles/2013%20Ford%20C-MAX 2013 Ford C-MAX Hybrid SE Sedan Auto$289 /mo. for 24 mos.Ford Credit Red Carpet Lease$2788 Cash Due at Signing Security deposit waivedTaxes, title and license fees extra Not all buyers will qualify for Ford Credit Red Carpet Lease. Payments may vary; dealers determine prices. Residency restrictions apply. Cash due at signing is after $250 cash back (PGM #50164). Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 4/1/13. See dealer for qualifications and complete details. EDIT: Oh and by the way, you don't need the maintenance plan. Oil changes cost about $40 for this car, less with a Ford Quick lane coupon, and you only need one every 10,000 miles. That's 3 oil changes over the course of the lease. Edited February 10, 2013 by mtberman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Is the maintenance plan through Ford? If so, you may be able to cancel the maintenance plan and get your money back. If it's not through Ford, you can still try to pursue getting your money back on that item. "All Ford Extended Service Plans are cancelable at any time during your Ford warranty coverage time period. You may cancel the remainder of the contract for which a prorated refund will be given to you. For complete and accurate information, view your actual contract for specific details." How much is the MSRP on the window sticker for your car? One other question, did you trade the Fiesta in ? And was the Fiesta paid off, or was money still owed on it? If the Fiesta was worth less than what you owed on it, the dealer may have wrapped that difference into the deal on the new car. BTW, cute dog! Edited February 10, 2013 by Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatAutGuy Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I think I solved the issue; the dealer prob overcharged a bit, but not by as much as I thought. The trade in was a leased Fiesta; while on the lease paperwork it looks like an even trade, in reality I wasn't done with the lease (had a year to go) and it seems they simply rolled the lease payments into the purchase price of the car... I'll definitely look into the service plan though - it's through Ford, so canceling it really seems to be an option... And Maximus, the dog looks cute - but she's a menace. A three year old rescue dog that loves to go into barking fits at 3 AM :p -- Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 You probably didn't make out too bad then because the dealer likely rolled in the remaining payments plus penalties for early termination plus the service contract. Enjoy your C-Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 That's good to hear a lot of that was probably due to the "pay off / early termination" of the trade in. Hopefully you can get a refund on the maintenance plan if you want to. You can at least get a better idea of how much you paid exactly for the maintenance plan so you get make a decision about whether to pursue a refund. Ford has a web site that provides a quote on the maintenance plan which would give an idea of what is normal for that plan (although the dealer can probably charge what they want). Plug in your VIN and state and the site is supposed to provide a quote: http://owner.ford.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Owner/Page/ESPPremMaintDetail Regarding the dog, not sure if you can get a refund on her :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccabe Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Two weeks ago I leased an SE with the 202A package for an MSRP of $26,450. The C-Max replaced a 2010 Toyota Corolla that had 7 months left on the lease. The dealer bought out the lease and the car from Toyota for $10,800 and then allowed me $3,300 because of the appraised value and applied it to the lease. Cap cost was the MSRP of $26,450 and residual value is $17,460. In addition to the $3,300 for the the Toyota the dealer rebate of $1,250 was also applied to the lease for a total down of $4,550. The lease term is 2 years at 10,500 miles per year. I opted for Ford's single payment lease that has a money factor of .01%. Aquisition and DOC fees were $863. I paide d $5100 for the lease which would be $212.50 per month.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatAutGuy Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Yeah, looking at this that's really what the issue with my lease was: the Fiesta had 13 months left, and definitely had way less trade in value than was necessary to buy out the lease... Looking back I realize that the lease I got on the Fiesta 2 years ago was not all that great to begin with, and I paid for that now as well. I'd definitely ask a LOT more questions though if I went to the dealer again - I really only now understand how the whole trading-in-a-lease/getting-a-new-lease deal works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdefny Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Aren't you allowed a few days to cancel if you haven't taken delivery yet? I have done that before and never had a problem, but never with a lease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Aren't you allowed a few days to cancel if you haven't taken delivery yet? I have done that before and never had a problem, but never with a lease.I think you will find most states do not have a buyer's remorse law for vehicles. A quick search shows NY does not have such for cars. Once you sign the contract the car is yours whether it's delivered or not. But most reputable car dealers will likely let you cancel if you haven't taken delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwhitham Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) That part was about non-Hybrids with auto-start, where they have to use a regular starter motor, so they need the deep-cycle battery.For the Hybrids, it's just the reverse. The 12V battery doesn't start the car so it can be smaller.It's only money. You have a beautiful family, a cute dog, and a neat car. Years from now you won't remember the few dollars you may have lost. BTW, we lovingly refer to our rescue dog as sweet "psycho" but love her dearly. Edited February 11, 2013 by erwhitham ThatAutGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatAutGuy Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 It's only money. You have a beautiful family, a cute dog, and a neat car. Years from now you won't remember the few dollars you may have lost. BTW, we lovingly refer to our rescue dog as sweet "psycho" but love her dearly. I'm already at peace with it now :) I got confirmation today that the price was really due to negative equity on the trade in (with lease fees and what not). Could I have gotten a better deal? Probably. But at least I did not get the worst deal in the world, ever :p I'm pretty sure "Psycho" is what describes my rescue dog too; sometimes I look at her and just wonder what in the world is going on in that little brain of hers... EVger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtorres Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 ThatAutGuy Just a thought for next time, try using the Costco Auto program. I've bought my last few cars that way. No hassle, the price is predetermined and shown to you on the Costco pricing sheet. You deal directly with the internet Sales Manager. The only thing you have to negotiate is the value of your trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScooterS Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Speaking of negative equity...... Is 10,500 miles a year, going to be enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhackwyatt Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I wonder what the chart looks like Today compared to 2 months ago. Is that bell curve shifting to the right as things get warmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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