How It Works

[nsteblay]

Here is an article regarding how a hybrid works ...

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car7.htm

 

 

I believe the C-Max uses a similar architecture / approach to what Toyota does with the Prius line.

 

I believe the Prius is designed better regarding fuel efficiency.  This would include better aerodynamics, lighter weight, smaller more fuel efficient gas engine, more fuel efficient wheel design, and leveraging power splitting effectively.

 

The C-Max chose to focus on providing more power to the driver and styling in balance with better MPG.  Ford achieved the high EPA ratings by increasing the speed that the electric motor could power the car alone.  

 

There is less variability in MPG results from the Prius line because of the way it is engineered relying mostly on power split driving to optimize the use of gas.  

 

The C-Max MPG relies more on sole EV mode driving to achieve its high numbers.  Unfortunately achieving sole EV mode is dependent on factors like driving style and operating environment temperature - hence the wild swings in MPG we see on this site.

 

Those who are seeking MPG as their main driver should probably look at the Prius line.  Those who also consider the qualitative nature of the drive in balance with MPG should look at the Ford line.  

 

I am still on the fence as to whether I would have picked the C-Max knowing the difficulty of achieving the published EPA MPG.  I do like the car but am disappointed in the mileage.  I do think Ford should provide some sort of refund or be willing to buy the cars back.

 

 

[RachelnLa]

I must be one of the strange ones. I like trying to get and keep it in ev. I also find it easy to achieve just driving the car naturally. I guess I am a hybrid driver :).

[erwhitham]

Hybrid mpg is variable. No way around it . I'm a crossover Prius to CMax owner. My mpg for both ranged from 20's to 40's due to all the factors discussed on hybrid forums. To be honest, the CMax seems to average 2-3 mpg lower comparing the 7 years driving the Prius to these first few months. Overall, though, it has a lot to offer. It's noticeably smoother and quieter, has better pick up, stylish, and I decided to go all out with options this time around.( My only regret, I wish Ford had manufactured a bright red.)

Edited March 6, 2013 by erwhitham

[Jus-A-CMax]

I think its variable due to 2 factors: the cold and the engine break in. Those posters in the north are not getting the same MPGs due to the cold. I don't live in the cold since I'm in SoCal but I have driven the CMax in zero and below when I am in snowy Mammoth and ICE takes forever to warm up, EV juice is bad even at high levels..lets face it, batteries hate the cold...no wonder the mileage is not good. Yes, add grill covers would help in that case.

 

However, in the SoCal conditions where the temps are typically 50 and upward, the MPGs are alot better. I have more odo on my car so I am seeing better MPGs. I just did a post this evening where I did the same run when my engine was at 930 miles and the same run at 8000 miles and there is a savings in the fuel consumption and yet the same EV miles on both trips. Diff in temp was about 10F but it is 55F and above so I do not consider it a major factor.

 

OP - have a good chat with some posters here on your neck of the woods to get the true MPGs. Better still, go to AVIS and see if you can rent a CMax for a week and really checkout the car as it operates in your area. Hopefully, the engines are broken in (> 5000) so it may give you a sense of the MPGs you may get. Also, what you can't quantify in these forums are each of our driving techniques - I may drive to optimize FE as I know the roads and even road selection and the more I drive these same roads, the better I get as now, I can have a game plan on how to regen/dispense my batts - thats the secret with this car. 

Edited March 6, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[JohnnOhio]

I think the batteries have to break in also. When you buy a new cell phone or laptop the batteried have to cycle a bit before they start holding a charge. Cold and batteries don't get along either. Having the engine running to charge cold batteries and heat the interrior of the car drop the mpg's.

[C-MaxSea]

"Those who are seeking MPG as their main driver should probably look at the Prius line. Those who also consider the qualitative nature of the drive in balance with MPG should look at the Ford line.

 

I am still on the fence as to whether I would have picked the C-Max knowing the difficulty of achieving the published EPA MPG. I do like the car but am disappointed in the mileage. I do think Ford should provide some sort of refund or be willing to buy the cars back."

 

Nste.  I think your summary is very well written and that you have pinned down the differences pretty well; especially the "qualitative nature of the drive", and the requisite change in driving style necessary for maxing the mpgs in the C-Max, due to its beautifully beefier ICE.  On that later point I am reminded of the occasional 'need for speed/power' which the C-Max easily provides (passing, climbing mountain passes, heavy loads...).  I would rate that as a major bonus, rather then a drawback as might be inferred from your excellent summary.

 

I would also heartily second your former note, that the "qualitative nature of the drive" (suspension, sound control, steering....................) strongly favors the C-Max.  I would have to add one additional note with regard to 'qualitative nature', however; that being the use of materials.  I am reminded of the Tom Volk video which rates the C-Max 'one or two notches up' in use of materials.  This is particularly significant inside where we spend all of our time, and hopefully appreciate that difference many, many hours over.   The interior difference to me is profound - the Prius rather nauseous, and the C-Max rather uplifting. 

 

With regard to refunds & buybacks - sorry, but that is just getting silly and greedy.  Nick

Edited March 6, 2013 by C-MaxSeattle

[nsteblay]

C-MaxSeatlle - Your probably right on the refund request.  The Minnesota cold got into my bones I guess.  

 

I had an interesting week regarding my 21 mile commute to work. The temperature has varied significantly this week in Minnesota. One morning it was 5F and my mileage to work was 33 mpg. Today is was 42F and my ride home from work I averaged 45 mpg. The terrain is essentially flat. Wind was not a factor. Traffic was freeway driving up to 70 mpg with congestion causing stop-and-go at points. I didn't change my driving habits or approach between the 2 drives. 

I can't get over the difference in results I get on the same drive. The difference can be attributed to the percent of time in EV mode. Good gas mileage in the C-Max is a direct function of the percent of time spent in EV mode. 

Ford has implemented a powersplit architecture for the C-Max similar to the Toyota Prius. The difference between how Ford and Toyota implement relates to how powersplit is utilized. In the Toyota much of the mileage is gained while the gas and electric engine are working in tandem. With the Ford mileage is mostly gained when in EV mode.

Why is this? I don't know. I would love to talk to a Ford engineer about their powersplit algorithms and the design tradeoffs they made. My conjecture is because of the larger gas engine, heavier car, poorer aerodynamics, and larger tires the C-Max gets average mileage with the gas engine working alone even at highway cruising. Ford can't get the dramatic mileage gains unless sole EV mode kicks in regularly. To make this happen they enlarged the electric motor to allow for faster EV mode speeds (63 mph). 

The outcomes are a car with more power, more room for the driver, better driving experience at the expense of highly variable mileage depending on environmental conditions and approach to driving that lowers the average for typical real world driving. It nails the EPA test in this configuration hence the initial 47/47/47 rating.

The Toyota gets more consistent mileage that isn't as impacted by environment and driving approach because of relying on tandem powersplit operation. The tradeoffs are less power and poorer driving experience. It fairs much better in real world testing compared to its EPA testing.

The disappoint here is the C-Max 47/47/47 rating just isn't realistic for many drivers and hence the backlash in the press. On the flip side mileage is much improved over a typical car with similar driving experience at a still affordable price.

[Tree63]

I'm finding that too - key is spending time in EV mode.  I find my EV/ICE split is running about 40-45% (and generally am close to the EPA numbers - 5.0-5.5 L/100km)  when in city-hwy driving, and between 10-20% when just hwy (somewhat higher - just made an 800km/500 mile trip at 5.7L/100).  I ran ICE only (about 75mph) for last 100 km/60-65 miles and it showed good fuel mileage to me - and didn't blow up the average at all.

 

Haven't come close to the Cdn Transport dept averages of 4.0L/100km (about 58 MPG US) with any consistency, even on short trips.

[C-MaxJaxon]

I've found that the trip average goes up and down significantly as you drive. By resetting one of the trip screens and watching it throughout a trip, I saw that the average would repeatedly drop down into the 30s, then climb back into the 40s, depending on whether the ICE had been running for a while or I had been in EV mode for a while. So the trip average would be whatever it happened to be when I shut the car off.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that the initial charge state of the battery also influenced mileage on shorter trips.

Edited March 9, 2013 by C-MaxJaxon

[Tree63]

On the recent long trip cited, I wanted to watch the trip screens as well.  I decided to try Eco-cruise at 50-60 mph depending on hwy - though I found not much difference on hills with "eco" compared to straight cruise ctl.  After a while, things just started to average out - and as others urged on other threads, I just relaxed and enjoyed driving this terrific machine with no commuting traffic to worry about (just deer and moose popping up now and then)   Temp was just a few degrees above freezing so we'll what happens in coming warm months.  With previous non-hybrid cars, winter mileage would take about a 30% hit.  If EV runs about 20% of time on long hwy hauls, then I am expecting that 5.7L/100km to drop 25% (30% of 80%) to about 4.6L/100km or about 50 MPG - well in range of EPA numbers. 

 

Pure city driving I spend at least 65% in EV, usually close to 80%, and occasionally on a couple of erand routes all EV for 2-3 miles. I find it easy to hit the city numbers when car is warm even if temp is below freezing, probably the on-off cycle and battery charge level stays right enough.  Most times though I am starting off cold - hence the Fuelly numbers.

[ptjones]

Here is an article regarding how a hybrid works ...

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car7.htm

 

 

I believe the C-Max uses a similar architecture / approach to what Toyota does with the Prius line.

 

I believe the Prius is designed better regarding fuel efficiency.  This would include better aerodynamics, lighter weight, smaller more fuel efficient gas engine, more fuel efficient wheel design, and leveraging power splitting effectively.

 

The C-Max chose to focus on providing more power to the driver and styling in balance with better MPG.  Ford achieved the high EPA ratings by increasing the speed that the electric motor could power the car alone.  

 

There is less variability in MPG results from the Prius line because of the way it is engineered relying mostly on power split driving to optimize the use of gas.  

 

The C-Max MPG relies more on sole EV mode driving to achieve its high numbers.  Unfortunately achieving sole EV mode is dependent on factors like driving style and operating environment temperature - hence the wild swings in MPG we see on this site.

 

Those who are seeking MPG as their main driver should probably look at the Prius line.  Those who also consider the qualitative nature of the drive in balance with MPG should look at the Ford line.  

 

I am still on the fence as to whether I would have picked the C-Max knowing the difficulty of achieving the published EPA MPG.  I do like the car but am disappointed in the mileage.  I do think Ford should provide some sort of refund or be willing to buy the cars back.

I'm surprised that you haven't gotten Grill Covers for your CMAX, Everyone that has them likes them, they really work. You will be amazed how much your MPG's improve with temps in 60-70's.

[C-MaxSea]

Another great write up ns, I think you have nailed it succinctly, esp. the note on "percent time spent in EV mode".  I would love to see EV percentage plotted against mpg.  I am guessing that 50% is a magic number for getting 40+ (or there abouts).  I have been fortunate to launch our C-Max in a mild climate without winter extremes, and from a garage most of the time, so it has been relatively easy to get good numbers from the start.  Thanks for the good analysis.  Nick

 

PS  I began my 'Lifetime' at about 180 (received vehicle with 115 on odometer), so not sure if I have 518/1097(47%+-), or 518/917 (56%+-).  Yes, much easier to hit the EPA numbers in the city, but I have hit several 50 milers around 50mpg with 70% freeway.  Nothing finer than a warm ICE.

 

 

 

(BTW, you have a typo in the first full paragraph on the 70 mpg rather than 70 mph.)

Edited March 13, 2013 by C-MaxSeattle

[mtberman]

Ditto on the winter problem and high speeds. Those getting below 35 MPG are almost certainly running the heat from start-up, and/or running 65+ MPH.

 

One tip: Try running with the climate control off (use seat heaters if you have them and it's cold out) for the  first ten minutes of your drive when possible. Turn the system on only after the gas engine has thoroughly warmed up. Of course you should use the system regardless of mileage if it gets stuffy or there's any chance of ice or fog on the windows.

 

I was surprised how much doing this improved my MPG.

[Mr. Green Jeans]

Prius driver here.  I have a C-max Energi on order.  During cold weather, I am getting 45 mpg.  My best is 54 mpg, during a perfect week of weather and over 20,000 miles, my average is 49 mpg.  The engine has to run more as more heat is needed in the vehicle.  Windshield wipers and headlights run more and so does the fan for the defroster.  I will be interested to see how this effects the Energi.  Should be wamer weather and I will no longer be driving in the dark by the time it arrives.  I expect to preheat and cool at home and at work while plugged in.  Most of my drive to work and home is on a state highway with a speed limit of 55. If you dont drive 65 though, everyone passes you and gives you a one finger salute.  If I only drove in town, I would have a much better average.