I HAVE FOUND THE ILLUSIVE MPG SWEET SPOT!

[Generalbeluga]

I have heard others speak of a "mileage sweet spot" that exists somewhere around 65 MPH that let's the hybrid cruise in ICE mode while charging the battery and still getting over 44+ MPG, with minimal transfer to EV mode.  Well, I am here to report that I have found it and it is alive and well!  Here's the trick:  Set your dash display to Empower mode and accelerate up to about 66 MPH on the speedo.  Lock in the ECO Cruise and watch the mileage gauge for a mile or two.  If the mileage is not above the 43+ MPG mark, drop your speed one click and monitor it again.  Depending on your car, the terrain, and outside temperature, you will quickly learn exactly where you car's sweet spot is.   Mine is at about 66 MPH based on speedometer readings.  I have learned that driving at 66 MPH is more fuel efficient than driving at 55 MPH because the front grill vents close at 60 MPH, increasing aerodynamics and fuel efficiency while, at the same time, the higher speed increase the car's inertial momentum allowing it to more easily navigate the minor freeway inclines without quickly shifting to EV mode.  Try it, you'll like it!    

[RachelnLa]

Interesting! Thanks so much for sharing!

[dtorres]

But will Mikey like it ;)  For those of you old enough to remember the commercial.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Gen - great find mate  :) , its should not be that illusive as I suspect its got to do with a high battery - which may reason why u said to run this 1 mile or 2 in pure ICE to charge up the batts. Like to hear your comments on the battery situation with your CMax and this find as I think your batts are high (above 80%) which is condusive to this condition. I'll certainly play with Maxine tomorrow.

 

Hey, have you done a run on Box Canyon yet from 118 down to Valley Circle?

[Hatchman]

Do the front grills close by mph or engine temperature?  I read on here on another post they are based on engine coolant temperature?  But great info on the sweet spot, I will have to try it out. 

Edited March 13, 2013 by Hatchman

[wamba2000]

General, I will try that, thanks for the tip

[joe]

Driving at 65 to 70 mph, I observed that if the battery was close to full, that the EV would kick in going up hills, providing some assistance to keeping the mpg in the high 30s or low 40s.

[DaveofDurham]

General B - You provide the best intel. 

[Generalbeluga]

Jus-A-CMax,

 

Yes, it works best if you start with your batteries charged as high as they can go.  The beauty is that once charged up and you are in the "Sweet Spot", the batteries will continue to be topped off while remaining in ICE (white on the empower gauge) mode.  Haven't made the Box Canyon to Valley Circle run yet as I am retired and have little need to hit the SF Valley (which is a good thing!)  ;)

 

Joe,

 

Yes, as you approach a hill, you will notice a battery assist (overlapping raise in blue graph on white KW meter) but, if your speed is correct and the hill is not too large or long, you will remain in the "white" ICE mode for a pretty long time.  As with most things in life, you will eventually drop back into the EV mode but, it will be for a shorter duration and you will quickly return to the ICE mode and your max MPG.  

 

Hatchman,

 

The front grill louvers are triggered only by speed and close at 60 MPH.  There was a recent post on this blog with an interview of the Ford Engineer who designed the C Max car and he referred to them as "stupid" louvers.  The next generation C Max may have "smart" louvers that activate on a combination of speed and engine temperature.  They just had so many things going with the new car release that this was not on their priority list at the time, but it makes sense and will be considered in future model years.  

 

One last thing, this only works on a relatively flat FWY like the 118 in Simi Valey, Ca.  If you are in a hilly area, I would not think this method would work as well.  

[ptjones]

I have heard others speak of a "mileage sweet spot" that exists somewhere around 65 MPH that let's the hybrid cruise in ICE mode while charging the battery and still getting over 44+ MPG, with minimal transfer to EV mode.  Well, I am here to report that I have found it and it is alive and well!  Here's the trick:  Set your dash display to Empower mode and accelerate up to about 66 MPH on the speedo.  Lock in the ECO Cruise and watch the mileage gauge for a mile or two.  If the mileage is not above the 43+ MPG mark, drop your speed one click and monitor it again.  Depending on your car, the terrain, and outside temperature, you will quickly learn exactly where you car's sweet spot is.   Mine is at about 66 MPH based on speedometer readings.  I have learned that driving at 66 MPH is more fuel efficient than driving at 55 MPH because the front grill vents close at 60 MPH, increasing aerodynamics and fuel efficiency while, at the same time, the higher speed increase the car's inertial momentum allowing it to more easily navigate the minor freeway inclines without quickly shifting to EV mode.  Try it, you'll like it!    

Apparently you missed my several Posts on shutters and grill covers. PEOPLE the shutters are controlled by TEMPERATURE  I watched them with a web camera in my grill connected to my laptop. You can look at my gallery and see the setup.

The shutters are closed all the time at any speed unless the AC is on or the ICE reaches 190degressF. I don't know why Ford is misleading customers.

 

I get better MPG's (47mpg) at 70degF) P&G  66mph and EV 63mph to 61mph back to 66mph. I lucked out my car will actually go GPS speed 63mph. The speedometer on car reads high one mph. 

Edited March 13, 2013 by ptjones

[Generalbeluga]

Here is the link of the interview with the Ford C Max and Fusion Engineer.  The sound gets better toward the middle of the podcast:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1190-online-chat-with-c-max-engineer/

[ptjones]

Here is the link of the interview with the Ford C Max and Fusion Engineer.  The sound gets better toward the middle of the podcast:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1190-online-chat-with-c-max-engineer/

I have seen the podcast and they are still wrong. I wish someone else would duplicate my test so we can stop disseminating miss information. It only makes it harder to figure out what to do to improve MPG's on our CMAX's. I'm getting close to getting my 5th 599mi or better tank today. Grill Covers definitely work! :)  

[plus 3 golfer]

Paul, if I can find a long USB male a / female a extension cable, I'll do it (or a cheap cable at Walmart).  My son might have one.  

 

Again, as I said in the "Ford engineer" thread I have empirical evidence that the shutters were likely open when I ran my grill cover tests at 70 mph.  The coolant temperature was 7.5 *F higher when going uphill with the grill covers on vs grill covers off.  There is no logical explanation for such but for the shutters being very inefficient in blocking air flow or being open not closed at 70 mph.  Here's a summary of coolant temperature data that was recorded about every 2/3 seconds via the OBDII port during my test runs of about 15 miles or so with ambient at 27*F.

 

 

As I said I believe the engineer misspoke. There's got to be others that can record a video of shutter operation as they drive. 

 

 

[ptjones]

Paul, if I can find a long USB male a / female a extension cable, I'll do it (or a cheap cable at Walmart).  My son might have one.  

 

Again, as I said in the "Ford engineer" thread I have empirical evidence that the shutters were likely open when I ran my grill cover tests at 70 mph.  The coolant temperature was 7.5 *F higher when going uphill with the grill covers on vs grill covers off.  There is no logical explanation for such but for the shutters being very inefficient in blocking air flow or being open not closed at 70 mph.  Here's a summary of coolant temperature data that was recorded about every 2/3 seconds via the OBDII port during my test runs of about 15 miles or so with ambient at 27*F.

 

 

As I said I believe the engineer misspoke. There's got to be others that can record a video of shutter operation as they drive. 

I think I ended going to BestBuy to get the cable. If you need me to ship you or anyone else my Webcam and cable I can.

[valkraider]

cablesforless.com

[mtb9153]

I have seen the podcast and they are still wrong. I wish someone else would duplicate my test so we can stop disseminating miss information. It only makes it harder to figure out what to do to improve MPG's on our CMAX's. I'm getting close to getting my 5th 599mi or better tank today. Grill Covers definitely work! :)  

Do you have a copy of your shutter door video available for anyone to view it?  I'd been interested to take a look. If I had one of those tiny Go cameras, I could give this a try since I can capture the footage to my MacBook Pro laptop using Adobe On-Location software I use for my Videography business and store it directly to my 1TB internal hard drive.  I do have a small ball shaped USB webcam that I rarely use anymore.  Maybe I could try that route.  I can't put my HDV Canon XHA1 camcorder out in front of my Max it is too big and heavy plus it cost me $4k

Edited March 14, 2013 by mtb9153

[Hatchman]

I am betting on engine temperature.  The coolant fan on my Mustang turns on by engine coolant temperature.  It has a low speed and a high speed setting, both set to a particular engine coolant coolant temperature, which, btw, is adjustable in the tune so you can make the electric fans come on sooner, or later, depending upon your setup and environment.  Of course, you'll need a tuner or tuner program and a XCal/programmer to adjust it, but won't get into that, and it's a 2005, so the warranty has been voided for years. 

 

Seems it would be pretty easy to apply the same technology to the motorized grill shutters. 

 

Just to shut them at 60 mph no matter how hot the engine is doesn't make sense.  What if you are a running full speed, floored, with a full, heavy loaded car, up a steep hill at 120F air temperature and the shutters shut and stay shut while the engine overheats?  Doesn't make sense that they would design it like that.  

 

Plus, from the real world testing on here, everything points to coolant temp, not mph.  

Edited March 14, 2013 by Hatchman

[plus 3 golfer]

cablesforless.com

Shipping from cablesforless.com was more than the cable.  So, I stopped by Fry's Electronics and picked up a 10 foot one for $4.34 including tax.

[ptjones]

Do you have a copy of your shutter door video available for anyone to view it?  I'd been interested to take a look. If I had one of those tiny Go cameras, I could give this a try since I can capture the footage to my MacBook Pro laptop using Adobe On-Location software I use for my Videography business and store it directly to my 1TB internal hard drive.  I do have a small ball shaped USB webcam that I rarely use anymore.  Maybe I could try that route.  I can't put my HDV Canon XHA1 camcorder out in front of my Max it is too big and heavy plus it cost me $4k

All I had was live video no recording on my laptop.

[plus 3 golfer]

All I had was live video no recording on my laptop.

I just installed the logitech webcam driver on my laptop and will not be able to record (just monitor) as my old 10+ year old HP laptop won't support the logitech video software.

[ptjones]

I just installed the logitech webcam driver on my laptop and will not be able to record (just monitor) as my old 10+ year old HP laptop won't support the logitech video software.

Me too.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Its been mid 80s and my ambient temp actually touched 90 so yeah, lets settle this active grill shutters once and for all. Too many diverging opinions from the Engineers and the posters but I am glad ptjones and alike have the resources to try and figure this one out - these grill makes a big impact to the FE of the car.

 

Speaking of which, I think this ICE high mpg mode has it purpose. While imo, the P&G is still slightly superior since you are doing 2 regen cycles and saving gas there - the ICE High MPG will do a continuous burn of the gas throughout but where it has strong merit is the uphill gradient. There a long stretch going east on the 118 that is all upslope between 1st and Yosemite (the Gen knows this) and this mode is great for that stretch when it will recharge the batts high and speed just a tad above the 65mph. I have the numbers for one run that is from Oxnard to North Hollywood (~50 miles) with the ICE High MPG and I am just waiting for another job in Oxnard to run the same route with the P&G.

 

Such a fun car to drive and PLAY  :) 

Edited March 14, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[mtb9153]

I'm going to try and interface my USB Logitech web cam with my MacBook Pro using Adobe On-Location software which in theory should allow me to capture live video feed onto my laptop hard drive. The only thing which might create a problem Is the length of the cable I will use to connect the webcam to my laptop inside the car. Stay tuned for more info.

 

On a side note, I tried turning off the EV+ mode on my Max this morning. Drove down the street from my house about 2 miles to catch hiway 17 freeway. Almost immediately my mpg went from 40.3 to 43.2. To date since I bought my Max I've never got that high of an mpg reading for combined city and freeway driving with Ecodrive set to 60mph

[plus 3 golfer]

Here are my observations from watching the active shutters on my C-Max for about 25 miles of driving with an ambient temperature of 89*F with no grill covers in place on fairly flat terrain.  I set up my webcam to monitor the shutters (would only fit through the lower grills) and set ETM to watch coolant temperature.  I ran about 15 miles or so at above 65 mph with spurts up to 80 mph.  Bottom line, my observations support ptjones tests.  It certainly would be better to record the shutters with commentary as to coolant temperature and speed during the test run but my laptop is too slow to support recording.

 

1) Turning on a/c opens the shutters. There appears to be no other contingent conditions.

 

2)  Below about  90*C coolant temperature the shutters remained closed except for 1).

 

3)  I did not observe speed alone affecting shutter position.  It would be beneficial to operate in city driving conditions to see if this still holds.

 

4)  Between about 90*C - 100*C the shutters could be in various stages of opening / closing.  I never saw a coolant temperature above 100*C.

 

5)  There appeared to be a time / temperature lag in opening / closing the shutters.  For example, sometimes when I reached 100*C, the shutters were not fully open. Many times when the coolant temperature was in the low 90*C and the shutters went fully closed. Most times I had to reach 95*C before the shutters would open and then the shutters would open to 1/2 way. So it wouldn't surprise me if the algorithm smooths the data and / or looks at rate of change and so forth so as not to continually change the position of the shutters.  I never saw a 3/4 shutter opening.

 

6)  Cruising below about 65 mph / low 90*C coolant temperature the shutters would remain closed. I noticed one time when the shutters opened to 1/4.   Also, below about 60 mph, I could not maintain coolant temperature above 90*C and the shutters remained closed.

 

7)  When the shutters would open / close (partially of fully), I would see a virtual immediate affect on coolant temperature.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Hey Plus 3, does using just the air flow (no A/C) effect the shutters? As you know, sometimes when you turn on the Climate, it automatically kicks in the AC and then I switch it off but leave the airflow on. Thanks for all the great research by the way - much appreciated  :) 

Edited March 15, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax