New to the forum - no happy camper

[NCost]

Bought our CMax Dec 1, 2012 and so far I am less than impressed with it.

 

You can see at my fuelly account:  http://www.fuelly.com/driver/octupi/cmax the type of mileage we average with it.  It's my wifes vehicle and she's pretty passive driver.  I actually get better mileage driving it than she does.  Over a full tank we're lucky to average 38mpg.  We've also noticed that with full charge, on the highway with the cruise set at 60, and getting it to switch to Hybrid mode, the farthest you can go it 2 miles before the battery is drained and needs to switch back to gas.

 

I've driven plenty of Priuses and the by far do better than the CMax.  Glad I leased it as I will most likely be done w/ Fords after this.

 

Sorry to vent but I hate false advertising.

[plus 3 golfer]

Are you aware of the Ford update to enhance efficiency?  You will get a letter perhaps by the end of this month for the free upgrade.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2536-ford-to-offer-free-updates-to-boost-hybrid-vehicle-efficiency/

[Adair]

Bought our CMax Dec 1, 2012 and so far I am less than impressed with it.

 

You can see at my fuelly account:  http://www.fuelly.com/driver/octupi/cmax the type of mileage we average with it.  It's my wifes vehicle and she's pretty passive driver.  I actually get better mileage driving it than she does.  Over a full tank we're lucky to average 38mpg.  We've also noticed that with full charge, on the highway with the cruise set at 60, and getting it to switch to Hybrid mode, the farthest you can go it 2 miles before the battery is drained and needs to switch back to gas.

 

I've driven plenty of Priuses and the by far do better than the CMax.  Glad I leased it as I will most likely be done w/ Fords after this.

 

Sorry to vent but I hate false advertising.

Have you gotten the 3.5.1 upgrade yet? A lot of folks are reporting improved MPGs after that. Since yours was built prob. in November, it would not have come with the 3.5.1.

 

Oh, and Welcome, by the way!!! Hope you can find some info here on the forum to help. There are a lot of owners here, just like you.

[salsaguy]

ncost, please tell us about how many miles you drive each day on your trip and what % is in the city. what is your weather like in your city? what is your avg speed you drive on the freeway/highway?

hybrids do better in town and below 55 mph.

so you run the A/C all the time? and at what set temp?

[Noah Harbinger]

It would be interesting if a dealer could test a vehicle according to the EPA protocol to see if there's something affecting performance on an individual vehicle - to separate the effect of the individual driver. 

 

 It's my wifes vehicle and she's pretty passive driver.  I actually get better mileage driving it than she does.

 

Many people have said, and I feel like I am coming to agreement from my own experience, that you need to accelerate more aggressively to get better fuel economy. Use gas to accelerate, use electric to cruise. 

[RaPieR]

I've never driven a Prius but reading from people's experiences online the C-Max benefits from using different techniques.

 

For highway most members here have found charging up the battery as high as possible then using eco-cruise at 65 or slightly higher yields 40s or high 30s MPG depending on terrain and weather conditions.

 

For speeds lower than 50MPH (city driving), maximizing battery use seems to yield the best MPG.  I've attached a link to the technique I've been using that isn't too tedious for low speed city driving.  With current weather conditions above 60F I've been averaging +50MPG in city driving.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/raepix/9111705060/

 

The highway mileage is probably the most disappointing thing about the C-Max but even then it still gets decent mileage with the proper technique.  Unfortunately, the EPA test do not reflect highway driving and they weren't meant to reflect real world usage with the low average speed in their specified highway tests.

[JAZ]

Additionally, be certain tire pressure and wheel alignment is correct.

[joe]

NCost -  What do you think about the rest of the C-Max?  Is it comfortable, do you like the car's features, like its performance???

Edited July 20, 2013 by joe

[PapaJ]

Agree with all the above comments.

 

We are averaging right at 41 MPG with our C-Max. We knew when we bought the C-Max that 47/47/47 is unrealistic. This is a heavy 3,600+ pound car with a tall profile and wide 17" wheels (Prius has skinny 15"" wheels). 

 

The EPA test regimen uses a  "highway" speed of 62 MPH. You engineers out there know that wind resistance increases exponentially from 60 to 70 to 80 MPH, especially running a little 140 HP 4-banger with low torque, so 47 MPG running at 80 MPH just flies in the face of the laws of physics. Hoping the software mods add 1-2 MPG, we'll see.

[Riddley]

Bought our CMax Dec 1, 2012 and so far I am less than impressed with it.

 

You can see at my fuelly account:  http://www.fuelly.com/driver/octupi/cmax the type of mileage we average with it.  It's my wifes vehicle and she's pretty passive driver.  I actually get better mileage driving it than she does.  Over a full tank we're lucky to average 38mpg.  We've also noticed that with full charge, on the highway with the cruise set at 60, and getting it to switch to Hybrid mode, the farthest you can go it 2 miles before the battery is drained and needs to switch back to gas.

 

I've driven plenty of Priuses and the by far do better than the CMax.  Glad I leased it as I will most likely be done w/ Fords after this.

 

Sorry to vent but I hate false advertising.

 

Welcome to the forum NCost!!

 

Everything comes at some cost. You might be happier in a Prius if MPG is your only objective. To get the fuel savings you hope for, you'll be less comfortable. It is all about priorities.

 

It is unfortunate that just about the time your lease expires, you'll probably be consistently hitting 40+ MPGs. I say this considering that your car has just over 5K miles and will continue to improve in fuel economy over the next 10K miles, even without the August system update. Add in the August system update and I wouldn't be surprised if you were getting well into the 40s in MPG. 

 

One suggestion I have is to explore what changed with your car starting in June.  

 

Your MPG trend line was approaching 40, and then went down. Is that downturn the result of so much AC?  If so, the August system update will have something to improve that.  

 

Another suggestion I have is to not take this too hard. Since it appears your wife does not know how to drive the Hybrid for optimal Fuel Efficiency, it will be her lot to be riding around in the Prius you eventually switch into.

 

She'll stop nagging you about the MPG, but don't be surprised if she complains about the seats being too hard, the wind and road noise, and funky controls.  It is all about priorities.   

[plus 3 golfer]

The EPA test regimen uses a  "highway" speed of 62 MPH. You engineers out there know that wind resistance increases exponentially from 60 to 70 to 80 MPH, especially running a little 140 HP 4-banger with low torque, so 47 MPG running at 80 MPH just flies in the face of the laws of physics. Hoping the software mods add 1-2 MPG, we'll see.

Non-engineers ought not to delve into the unknown. :)  ;)  I think we know what is intended but for clarity:

 

Aerodynamic drag (d) commonly referred to as wind resistance increases by the square of the velocity (v): d(v) = f(v²) .  The power (p) required to overcome aerodynamic drag increases by the cube of velocity: p = d(v) * v . An exponential increase in "d" from 60 to 70 to 80 would mean that a constant change in velocity would give the same proportional change in aerodynamic drag or exp(v): d(v) = f(e^v).  In other words, if drag increases exponentially with speed, for the same change in speed say 10 mph (from 60 to 70 mph, 70 to 80, or from 10 to 20 mph), the ratio of the change in "d" would be the same.  Of course we know this is not the case with aerodynamic drag.

 

Also, the 62 mph is IIRC around the max. speed in the EPA "highway" test procedure.  In 2008, the EPA added 3 additional supplemental tests to the "city" and "highway" tests including a high speed test (US06) which IIRC has a max speed of around 80 mph .  Then, several formulae are used to compute new "city" and "highway" fuel economy numbers.  But manufacturers do not actually have to run the new "high speed" test but can compute the high speed number.  If Ford did not run the high speed test but used the existing highway test and applied "adjustments" (perfectly allowed under the current procedures), the "high speed" calculated values could be overstated especially with hybrids that stop full EV at 62 mph and hence the calculated "highway" FE is likely overstated.  By Ford now allowing EV operation above 62 mph all the way to 85 mph, such increase in EV operation hopefully will enhance overall efficiency and improve real world high speed cruising FE. 

 

From my research looking at the actual 2013 EPA spreadsheet data which includes all manufacturers' data, it appears that Ford did not run the US06 supplemental high speed test for the C-Max.  As a reference, the 2013 EPA spreadsheet contains 894 unique vehicle Ids.  US06 is shown for only 168 of the Ids or 18.8% of the vehicles.

 

[Testdriver]

IIRC, the high speed test only got up to 85 briefly and still stayed below 65 for most of the test...speeds that the C-Max performs well at.

 

The C-Max is a pretty heavy car - heavier than the Escape. It has the ability to run on EV power alone for long stretches if driven under 50 mph, but once it goes to ICE only mode, it's basically an SUV. Due to the extreme difference in MPG between ICE and EV mode, it seems logical that there will be a high variability in MPG for the C-Max based on both the driver and conditions.

 

The Prius, OTOH, is more aerodynamic and IIRC, lighter than the Focus. It also has a smaller battery, so there's less variability in mpg, I think.

 

Certainty the EPA mpg for the C-Max is at the high end of what most drivers can get, but I'm not sure if they were deliberately deceptive.

[obob]

IIRC, the high speed test only got up to 85 briefly and still stayed below 65 for most of the test...speeds that the C-Max performs well at.

 

The C-Max is a pretty heavy car - heavier than the Escape. It has the ability to run on EV power alone for long stretches if driven under 50 mph, but once it goes to ICE only mode, it's basically an SUV. Due to the extreme difference in MPG between ICE and EV mode, it seems logical that there will be a high variability in MPG for the C-Max based on both the driver and conditions.

 

The Prius, OTOH, is more aerodynamic and IIRC, lighter than the Focus. It also has a smaller battery, so there's less variability in mpg, I think.

 

Certainty the EPA mpg for the C-Max is at the high end of what most drivers can get, but I'm not sure if they were deliberately deceptive.

Nice.

 

But one correction, from Consumer Reports Car Compare  (XXXXXXXXX)

 

( Update: As clarified below by Testdriver, my numbers are most likely for the AWD version. )

 

C-Max 3615 lbs

Escape 3675 lbs.

Escape Titanium 3885 lbs. 

Pruis V 3280 lbs.               

 

Though I didn't realize they were so close in weight.

Edited July 26, 2013 by obob

[plus 3 golfer]

I believe there is a lot of confusion over the EPA tests.  I suggest that one read the Federal Regulations.  Suffice it to say the the City and Highway EPA FE numbers are not the result of one test.  It's a weighted mix of portions (up to 100%) of several of the driving cycle tests. For example, see below.  

 

The high speed test US06 has an average speed of 48 mph with a top speed of 80 mph with about 19% of the time above 65 mph.  There are also several stops and brisk acceleration periods.  The fuel used in the test is broken into a  highway portion, a city portion, and I believe startup fuel.

 

The SC03 is the "ac test".  The HFET is the "highway test" where the average speed is 48.6 mph and a maximum speed of 60 mph and no stops. 

 

 

[Testdriver]

Nice.

 

But one correction, from Consumer Reports Car Compare

 

C-Max 3615 lbs

Escape 3675 lbs.

Escape Titanium 3885 lbs.

Pruis V 3280 lbs.

 

Though I didn't realize they were so close in weight.

Edmund's has the C-Max SE at 3,607 lbs and the Escape SE at 3,502.

 

http://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=200421534|wagon&veh2=101420855|suv&show=0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9&comparatorId=1473051

 

I'm pretty sure they're pulling those numbers straight from Ford.

 

Not sure where CR's coming up with the extra 170 lbs...

 

Edit: The AWD version of the Escape is 3,645 lbs. Mystery solved.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Testdriver

[Jus-A-CMax]

I dunno about trusting Ford web info...hybridbear and I had a discussion in the 1000+ FFH hybrid thread that even they got the size of the fuel tanks :airquote: wrong... :baby:

[PapaJ]

The (valid) point I was making is that drag increaases with speed &  these cars get better MPG if you keep it under 70; we took a 60-mile mostly freeway trip today cruising at 69 MPH and got 45 MPG.

[C-MaxSea]

NCost,

But what does your wife think? No, it is not a Prius; thankfully so, a much more dynamic vehicle with so many other great features. I sympathize, but only to a point - most EPA numbers are 'unreliable' - simply comparative in value. Hope you researched your purchase. If the myriad of other features don't matter, I am also glad you just leased it - dump it and get a 'real car', a 'drive by committee' dashed Prius. Otherwise, there are lots of tips here to help your cause and new Ford updates that will help. I am certain that you could easily exceed 40 MPG's, and well beyond that, if you want to. Best of luck. Nick

Edited July 22, 2013 by C-MaxSeattle

[Jus-A-CMax]

Have you gotten the 3.5.1 upgrade yet? A lot of folks are reporting improved MPGs after that. Since yours was built prob. in November, it would not have come with the 3.5.1.

 

Oh, and Welcome, by the way!!! Hope you can find some info here on the forum to help. There are a lot of owners here, just like you.

His other post strongly indicate he has the 3.5.1 update, took 6 hrs apparently....

 

 

NCost,

 

But what does your wife think? No, it is not a Prius; thankfully so, a much more dynamic vehicle with so many other great features. I sympathize, but only to an extent - most EPA numbers are 'unreliable' - simply comparative in value. Hope you researched your purchase. If the myriad of other features don't matter, I am also glad you just leased it - dump it and get a 'real car', a 'drive by committee' dashed Prius. Otherwise, there are lots of tips here to help your cause and new Ford updates that will help. I am certain that you could easily exceed 40 and well beyond that,if you want to. Best of luck. Nick

Agreed. If an owner comes here complaining they are not beating their Prii MPG, I keep away. Before the OP jumps on me, I never owned a hybrid before the CMax so I never experience the wonderful MPGs in a Prii but I did have a day or 2 drives in the Prii and I want a Prii too. Mind u, the Prii got some respects with 600, 700 and even low 800s with a smaller tank and much lighter weight & power but I feel OK...as much as Adair wants to send me to the psychiatrist or just declare me insane.... :headspin: .....I want to say, nothing like doing all that in a heavy M1 Abrahms either... ;)  Yes, I am a :noobie:  CMaxer.... :drool:

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[bigalpha]

From my research looking at the actual 2013 EPA spreadsheet data which includes all manufacturers' data, it appears that Ford did not run the US06 supplemental high speed test for the C-Max.  As a reference, the 2013 EPA spreadsheet contains 894 unique vehicle Ids.  US06 is shown for only 168 of the Ids or 18.8% of the vehicles.

 

 

Have a link to the spreadsheet?

[salsaguy]

perhaps here, but i couldn't find the field on the spreadsheet on the 2nd tab where the C-max is shown:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

[plus 3 golfer]

Have a link to the spreadsheet?

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm

[uneakone]

How can you tell what version you have?

[uneakone]

How can you tell what version you have?

[fbov]

C-Max only comes in 2 versions, Hybrid and Energy. The thing that sets this hybrid drivetrain apart on the EPA lists is they are the only CVTs in Ford's lineup (along with Fusion and MKZ). You'll note the listings are in pairs, (hwy and city) and that the C-Max has two pairs; the Energy gets different tests.

 

HAve fun,

Frank