C-MAX Fuel Mileage. What are you getting?

[ptjones]

I can understand your frustration, but you are still better off with the C-Max. I traded a Jetta TDI for my C-Max due to high pressure fuel pump failures that are numbering in the 1000's. The Golf TDI you were considering is seeing those same issues, just lookup TDI HPFP. The Passat TDI that I current own has a completely different fuel system and even gets the Consumer Reports highly recommend status. So if you decide to go diesel the Passat TDI is the way to go for now.

The problem there is RUG goes for 3.20 and diesel 4.00, the diesel doesn't get 20% better mileage. CMAX-owner have you checked your odometer with GPS on one of your trips? Mine was off by .015% or .5mpg. I was wondering if you would interested in trying my center grill cover idea out, my testing should 4-5mpg improvement but I think maybe 2mpg?

[Laurel]

I've had our C-Max SEL for just over a week.  Just came back from 120 kilometer trip which was half free way and half city.  I am getting 5.7 L per 100 kilometers.  Translated that is 49 mpg Imperial and 41 mpg US.  I think I am pretty representative of the novice hybrid driver i.e. doing nothing   special, don't know much about hybrids, drive to keep up with traffic so generally drive 10 kilometers over the speed limits.  I am pleased with how things are going and anticipate that mileage will steadily improve.  Outside temperature today was 0 C for the whole round trip until I got close to home which is near the ocean and it warmed up to 2 C.  Lots of rolling hills on the trip.  I have under 500 kilometers on my car.  So I am very perplexed at the drivers who are getting such poor mileage.  Honestly I am thinking they are the kind of drivers who race up on your butt and floor it taking off at traffic lights.  It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise.  We are all pretty unaware of how poorly we drive and when surveys are done, the majority say they are good drivers.   I just thought of one thing that poor mileage drivers might be doing as I did it once --sitting and idling while you warm up your car.  I could watch the mileage go all to hell.  So now I do what a forum member recommended which is turning off the climate and putting on the heated seats.  I drive it like that for about 7 or 8 minutes until she is warmed up.  My mileage isn't affected doing that and it doesn't take long before I can switch climate back on.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Laurel

[darrelld]

I've had our C-Max SEL for just over a week.  Just came back from 120 kilometer trip which was half free way and half city.  I am getting 5.7 L per 100 kilometers.  Translated that is 49 mpg Imperial and 41 mpg US.  I think I am pretty representative of the novice hybrid driver i.e. doing nothing   special, don't know much about hybrids, drive to keep up with traffic so generally drive 10 kilometers over the speed limits.  I am pleased with how things are going and anticipate that mileage will steadily improve.  Outside temperature today was 0 C for the whole round trip until I got close to home which is near the ocean and it warmed up to 2 C.  Lots of rolling hills on the trip.  I have under 500 kilometers on my car.  So I am very perplexed at the drivers who are getting such poor mileage.  Honestly I am thinking they are the kind of drivers who race up on your butt and floor it taking off at traffic lights.  It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise.  We are all pretty unaware of how poorly we drive and when surveys are done, the majority say they are good drivers.   I just thought of one thing that poor mileage drivers might be doing as I did it once --sitting and idling while you warm up your car.  I could watch the mileage go all to hell.  So now I do what a forum member recommended which is turning off the climate and putting on the heated seats.  I drive it like that for about 7 or 8 minutes until she is warmed up.  My mileage isn't affected doing that and it doesn't take long before I can switch climate back on.

I have tried the climate trick too and it works well. I have a several blocks through a school zone before I hit the main highway. With the climate on from a cold start the engines sits and idles trying to warm the cabin.

Edited December 10, 2012 by darrelld

[stranger267]

But you have to realize that this is a 40 mpg car. Not 47.

 

Agree partially. It is 40 - 42 mpg car, which can be driven up to 47 - 50 in some conditions. Average driver with normal behavior will have 38 - 41 mpg (37 - 39 in mountain areas such as California).

 

(I started to get 48 - 49 mpg in some trips, and I _do not use_ hypermiling techniques. But getting 47 means one of _very good conditions such as slow highway without big Uphills and Downhills _ or _very annoying driving 60 mph on 65 mph freeway (which is de facto 75 speed limit), 5 - 7 mph slower then normal traffic, trying not to make a problem to others and still keep car in blue area on left screen_. So about 20% of drivers will have average of 47 (because they live in such conditions) but most will have 38 - 41 mpg.

Edited December 10, 2012 by stranger267

[stranger267]

CMAX-owner have you checked your odometer with GPS on one of your trips?

 

Checked it; it is absolutely perfect (unusual as usually speedometers shows 5% faster then real speed, on most other cars).

[ptjones]

What about your odometer, I'm trying to get some kind of average from several people to see If there is a trend.  I'm starting to wonder if my CMAX is better than most. Saturday  I made my usual time to my daughters about 74mi around Atlanta Fwys and did some drafting with speeds between 55-80mph, 58degress and got 49MPG actual. The return trip I did very little drafting with speeds between 50-75 ,56degrees and got 44MPG all on RUG. BTW it appears that No Ethanol and Premium get 1 mpg better fuel economy, not worth it unless you're going for max range.  

[MSmith1915]

 So about 20% of drivers will have average of 47 (because they live in such conditions) but most will have 38 - 41 mpg.

 

So what you are saying is that 80% of the drivers who expected 47 mpg driving fast, in hilly country, without thinking much about coasting to a stop or lightly using the brake to recharge the battery, and generally using aggressive driving techniques, maybe should have looked at another car other than a hybrid.  I think 'average' driver is in the eye of the beholder.  My average is different than my wife's average who will be different than another average driver that jumps off at the light and rushes to the next red light.  Many times I'm coasting up to a red light and cars are passing me with the pedal to the metal and then have to slam on the brakes at the red light as I come coasting up next to them.  If that upsets them because they can't wait at the red light a few seconds longer, well I've got news for them, they don't own the road and they don't drive my car or tell me how to drive.  Maybe $3 or $4+ a gallon for gas is not to expensive for those folks, but it is for me. 

[ptjones]

On a funny note I tryed to get Fuelly to separate  ENERGI's from Regular CMAX's because of one apparentant malicious Post of 21.7mpg from an ENERGI owner. Fuelly wrote back saying that ENERGI is an option and not a separate car .  Then I asked if they would remove that Post because Natioal Media were quoting it. We wil see how that goes, but the side effect will be ENERNI owners will push our average into the 50's in no time flat. LOL

[MikeB]

Fuelly needs to rethink that position. The Energi is not an option, it's an entirely different drivetrain from the MPG perpsective. Driven mostly on short trips, Energi drivers could legitimately post MPG numbers in the hundreds or potentially even thousands. For any type of analysis of the Hybrid average, you'd need to keep those numbers separate.

[ptjones]

It gets better,

 

Fuelly needs to rethink that position. The Energi is not an option, it's an entirely different drivetrain from the MPG perpsective. Driven mostly on short trips, Energi drivers could legitimately post MPG numbers in the hundreds or potentially even thousands. For any type of analysis of the Hybrid average, you'd need to keep those numbers separate.

 

 Fuelly dumped the bad Post so we are up to 39.9MPG. MikeB what is the lastest on your car?

[zhackwyatt]

Fuelly needs to rethink that position. The Energi is not an option, it's an entirely different drivetrain from the MPG perpsective. Driven mostly on short trips, Energi drivers could legitimately post MPG numbers in the hundreds or potentially even thousands. For any type of analysis of the Hybrid average, you'd need to keep those numbers separate.

What about adding it as a powertrain/engine option?

[MikeB]

ptjones, my Energi was built last week, should be on a train headed south this week.

 

I think listing the Energi as a different engine is the simplest choice, it's still an L4 but it needs to be listed as plug-in rather than hybrid.

 

Going even further, for plug-in vehicles, Fuelly really should allow you to enter a fill-up with either kWh of electricity or gallons of fuel, that would allow far more interesting calculations.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Agree partially. It is 40 - 42 mpg car, which can be driven up to 47 - 50 in some conditions. Average driver with normal behavior will have 38 - 41 mpg (37 - 39 in mountain areas such as California).

 

(I started to get 48 - 49 mpg in some trips, and I _do not use_ hypermiling techniques. But getting 47 means one of _very good conditions such as slow highway without big Uphills and Downhills _ or _very annoying driving 60 mph on 65 mph freeway (which is de facto 75 speed limit), 5 - 7 mph slower then normal traffic, trying not to make a problem to others and still keep car in blue area on left screen_. So about 20% of drivers will have average of 47 (because they live in such conditions) but most will have 38 - 41 mpg.

 

Thats about right for me. High MPGs for some trips (mainly impercetible downhill freeway runs).

 

Today for a job, I did a 43.6 mile run from San Fernando to Camarillo and got 54MPGs (60% Freeway, 30% country road 55MPH and rest suburban) with Freeway speed set to 61mph. Temp was in the mid to low 70s.

 

On the way back, I said screw it and hit the freeways. I did 65mph on the dot over something like 30.7miles and it hit 40MPG on the dot, 100% freeway with the eco cruise on and 1 EV mile.

 

I will be heading to Mammoth soon, fully loading Max with all the snow crap so it will be interesting to see what MPG I will get going to and coming back (up hill and down hill respectively, 290 miles each way).

Edited December 10, 2012 by Jus-A-CMax

[AgentCMAX]

I will be heading to Mammoth soon, fully loading Max with all the snow crap so it will be interesting to see what MPG I will get going to and coming back (up hill and down hill respectively, 290 miles each way).

 

Now that would be interesting indeed.  We recently took our 2010 Honda Pilot up to Tahoe for a weekend ski-trip right after Thanksgiving and I started out with 13mpg shown on the info screen (my wife normally drives it mostly in the city and she doesn't really pay attention to fuel economy).  I drove with fuel economy in mind and I was surprised at how well it actually performed.  When we got home from the trip, the screen showed 25mpg!  Heck, that's really impressive for such a big vehicle as the Honda Pilot.  My 2005 Nissan Frontier 4x4 that I traded-in for the C-Max averaged 18mpg.

Edited December 10, 2012 by AgentCMAX

[Jus-A-CMax]

I am not surprised. I suspect its the top end gearing, larger engine so its more efficient at highway speeds. Our usual car to Mammoth is a Jaguar Vanden Plas (2007) and that thing is a long wheel base and PLUSH, PLUSH, PLUSH and got as much room as an SUV internally and it would do 29-30MPG, sitting at around 70-72 mph (any higher and CHP along 395 is all over you like flies to crap). Its the tall gear and we always carried a box on the roof so it was aerodynamically challenged as well. My wife was considering a box but we will try to fit it all into Max.

 

I'll post how we go, I am excited to take the Max out there and I just ordered some cable chain for the 17", never knows when it dumps there, it REALLY DUMPS!

 

Hey, if anyone can throw me a bone as to how to drive hybrid up hill I would appreciate that...otherwise I'll eco-cruise it up there. Especially the hill up to Tom's Place, past Bishop.

[darrelld]

On a funny note I tryed to get Fuelly to separate  ENERGI's from Regular CMAX's because of one apparentant malicious Post of 21.7mpg from an ENERGI owner. Fuelly wrote back saying that ENERGI is an option and not a separate car .  Then I asked if they would remove that Post because Natioal Media were quoting it. We wil see how that goes, but the side effect will be ENERNI owners will push our average into the 50's in no time flat. LOL

Strange reaction from Fuelly since they list the Prius Plug-in as a different model from the Prius?

 

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius plug-in

 

You should call them out on that. Maybe they would agree to list a C-Max Plug-in?

Edited December 11, 2012 by darrelld

[AgentCMAX]

Hey, if anyone can throw me a bone as to how to drive hybrid up hill I would appreciate that...otherwise I'll eco-cruise it up there. Especially the hill up to Tom's Place, past Bishop.

 

I read in one of the online hyper-mile forums that to go up a big hill/mountain, you should keep your pedal/throttle steady (i.e. just let the speed drop as you climb the hill/mountain). 

 

The logic is you will get the speed back on the other side so don't worry about increasing the throttle to bring your speed up.  Of course, that is as long as it is reasonably safe to do so (i.e. don't let the speed drop so low that you are a hazard).

[roninsd]

Thats about right for me. High MPGs for some trips (mainly impercetible downhill freeway runs).

 

Today for a job, I did a 43.6 mile run from San Fernando to Camarillo and got 54MPGs (60% Freeway, 30% country road 55MPH and rest suburban) with Freeway speed set to 61mph. Temp was in the mid to low 70s.

 

On the way back, I said screw it and hit the freeways. I did 65mph on the dot over something like 30.7miles and it hit 40MPG on the dot, 100% freeway with the eco cruise on and 1 EV mile.

 

I will be heading to Mammoth soon, fully loading Max with all the snow crap so it will be interesting to see what MPG I will get going to and coming back (up hill and down hill respectively, 290 miles each way).

I'm guessing that your ride down the Conejo Grade on 101 just before Camarillo helped to increase your MPG to 54! :)

[AgentCMAX]

Strange reaction from Fuelly since they list the Prius Plug-in as a different model from the Prius?http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius plug-inYou should call them out on that. Maybe they would agree to list a C-Max Plug-in?

 

Fuelly.com has created a separate model the C-Max Energi.

[ptjones]

I just looked and they haven't changed yet on fuelly. Won't change things much  two are below and one way up.

[AgentCMAX]

I just looked and they haven't changed yet on fuelly. Won't change things much  two are below and one way up.

 

They did.change. But fuelly users need to edit their car profile to be Energi.

[Jus-A-CMax]

I'm guessing that your ride down the Conejo Grade on 101 just before Camarillo helped to increase your MPG to 54! :)

 

Ah, this poster knows my roads...yaaah! Actually, I head off along the Los Angeles Hwy, thru the farmslands - it's the most efficient way to utilize Max cause its flat and its speed limited to 45-55mph, ideal for the Max. I waste more time but its a nice super easy drive.Plus most of my work, I deviate off that road into the Las Posas region, or Spanish Hills. 

 

Interestingly, I've done a run with eco cruise at 65MPH all the way on the 118 (typically from Los Angeles Hwy exit) and I got 40MPG. I did the same run at 62-63MPH and I got 44MPG. I noticed that just manually pulsing and gliding (thus far), seems to chew more gas than using the eco cruise. I don't have the stat yet but I will soon.

[stranger267]

 

Hey, if anyone can throw me a bone as to how to drive hybrid up hill I would appreciate that...otherwise I'll eco-cruise it up there. Especially the hill up to Tom's Place, past Bishop.

 

Overall idea is to make sure, that you battery is as emply, as possible before the long downhills. So when going uphill, keep power high so that car use EV at least partially and not charge it (battery).

 

This way you have more capacity to get energy back on the downhill.

 

So, generally speaking, if you drive uphill slow, results will be worst vs driving uphill fast (so that system use battery even if it empty it). When moving slow, system charge battery by extra power engine provides, and you dont want to be on the top of the hill with fully charged battery.

Edited December 17, 2012 by stranger267

[darrelld]

Edited December 14, 2012 by darrelld

[Jus-A-CMax]

Overall idea is toi make sure that you battery ais as emply as possible before the long downhills. So when going uphill, keep power so that car use EV at least partially and not chanrge it (battery).

 

This way you have more capacity to get energy back on the downhill.

 

So, generally speaking, if you drive uphill slow, results will be worst vs driving uphill fast (so that system use battery even if it empty it). When moving slow, system charge battery by extra power engine provides, and you dont want to be on the top of the hill with fully charged battery.

 

Thanks stranger267, fantastic tips there!

 

Using eco-cruise uphill, there is zero EV use so to optimize, it has to be manual. So lets see if I understand you uphill driving technique right for our CMax, throwing in something I am seeing as well:

 

1. Set the eco-cruise to 55mph. This is base where the car will take over if the driver gets lazy.

2. Manually, feather the trottle so the speed is then above 55 and under 63MPH, in the EV "use" range.

3. Pulse and EV glide.

 

Did I understand this right? Or perhaps try a higher speed range?

 

Oh....Temps were low 47F-53F (freezing for us Angelinos) and approximately 60% Highway with highway speeds around 55-60mph:

Edited December 15, 2012 by Jus-A-CMax