New member from Chicago area, Hybrid or Energi?

[redEV]

I'm new to this forum but not new to alternative fuel cars as we currently own a '12 Nissan LEAF as well as a Miata, a smart fortwo passion coupe and a VW Routan (Chrysler T&C minivan clone for those who don't know) spread across 3 drivers; the C-Max could replace the last one as it only gets 16 MPG around town (but 25-27 on trips) and that serves as my winter commuter during the winter months as well as our long trip car. As we installed an L2 240V charger for the LEAF the C-Max Energi (plug-in) might serve us well but due to its lower initial cost, availability of X-pricing (for Ford partner's/suppliers) as well as slightly more storage room (with the extra battery in the Energi you lose another 5 cu. ft.) the hybrid version may actually costs us much less versus the pay back required for the more expensive Energi. So I guess I would pose that question here -- did current C-Max hybrid owners consider waiting for the Energi or was it simply that the hybrid was available NOW and they needed to trade. etc. to get another car or did they consider the Energi?

 

Although there aren't many C-Max hybrids around Chicago, I found a dealer who had an SEL in stock for a test drive and came back fairly impressed. This one had the pano roof as well. About the only thing I wasn't crazy about was the firmness of the back seats (even with leather); seems for the sake of utility, they made these a bit thin. While I wouldn't ride back there much, how have those who have these found more than a quick trip comfort (especially for adults)? It also turns out this dealer has an Energi on order so hopefully in a few weeks I'll be able to compare the two side by side. I'm also cross shopping the C-max with a few more luxury mid-size crossovers/SUV's but once you have something powered (even part of the time) by electric its hard to imagine anything as quiet (which the C-Max definitely is!); the ride comfort and quietness was on par with my LEAF and you learn to appreciate it over time (we've had our LEAF for about 10 months).

 

I'll look further for driver impressions on the forum but responses here are welcome as well --

[Chinto]

I have had my C Max SEL for about 10 days now and enjoy everything about it. Smooth comfortable ride with good power on the highway for passing. I had considered waiting for the Energi but decided that the 20 miles of electric only and with added initial cost to buy did not make sense to me so I went with the Hybrid.

[Dorian]

We briefly considered the Energi, but the benefit didn't justify the cost difference. We ended up with the Hybrid. It was supposed to be our secondary vehicle, but it has turned into our primary vehicle getting about 300les a week of use.

[redEV]

My local dealer finally got an Energi in stock so was able to take a test drive ... driving experience actually very similar although this car seemed to make a bit more noise when braking, had the 'brake coach' setting on so I could see how fast the battery was losing it's EV miles --- seems to drops faster than my LEAF but then this C-Max is much heavier. IMHO the extra space taken by the battery in the Energi is pretty much a deal killer for me anyway, another IL dealer had posted pictures of theirs and I took another photo with a 9 1/2" brochure setting near it with the cover folded for perspective; you just lose a lot of space; if you don't need to carry much its probably OK but not for us which is too bad --- the hybrid version is still in the running though so we'll see!

 

 

 

[jmckinley]

Same thought process for me too. Extra up front cost didn't really justify the cost savings. And the Energi wieghs 250 pounds more which is a factor since I plan to tow behind a motorhome. Then when I discovered the huge loss of storage space that was the final straw. I haven't seen what it looks like with the rear seat folded down, but I suspect that is a mess too.

 

And, to finish it off, I discovered that only "EV Certified" dealers could sell the Energi. The Ford website listed several dealers in the Dayton-Cincinnati area but when I called around, none of them really were. They all said it would cost them about $30,000 to get the certification and it just wasn't worth it. Never did find one who was actually certified.

 

And, to make it worse several of them said the Energi wouldn't be available for a year anyway (this was late October 2012). A couple of the dealers actually followed up on my inquiries. One of them was pretty persistent so I fired off an email telling him that either his guy was lying about Energi availability (by then I had seen one on the lot in Michigan) or was uninformed - either way I wasn't going to do business there.

[CNCGeek]

It was the lack of cargo space that steered me away from the Energi (and seeing the pics makes that even more clear to me). It would be cool to have more EV range, but I need the space and 40+mpg is more than twice what I was getting. For me it was the Prius or the C-max, and I was never a fan of the Prius.

[RMS13]

For 20 miles of EV at a cost of $4000 plus the cost of a charging station is not justifiable to me. I tend to drive 50 + miles one way and there is no charging station at work. I feel the hybrid is the better buy. If Ford had gotten 50 -60 miles EV then I would have considered the Energi.

[redEV]

Came across this new video and write-up showing the rear seat and cargo area for the Energi -- the last video shows the seat folded as well as flipping up that rear parcel shelf. This tester mentions that offering a diesel version would have of course totally eliminated the space for the hybrid or plug-in battery. The first video mentions (at least the Ford guy does) that the only way to charge the Energi battery would be by plugging it in which I don't think is correct (at least on other EV's you do get some regen from the brakes) but I guess, IN GENERAL that's true (i.e., even going down the steepest hill for many miles I doubt you could fully recharge the Energi's battery pack but would be interesting to try!). The Energi is still a great step forward for Ford but like all new tech its expensive and perhaps not for everybody.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/13/ford-c-max-energi-test-drive/

[Oldsguy]

Same thought process for me too. Extra up front cost didn't really justify the cost savings. And the Energi wieghs 250 pounds more which is a factor since I plan to tow behind a motorhome. Then when I discovered the huge loss of storage space that was the final straw. I haven't seen what it looks like with the rear seat folded down, but I suspect that is a mess too.

 

And, to finish it off, I discovered that only "EV Certified" dealers could sell the Energi. The Ford website listed several dealers in the Dayton-Cincinnati area but when I called around, none of them really were. They all said it would cost them about $30,000 to get the certification and it just wasn't worth it. Never did find one who was actually certified.

 

And, to make it worse several of them said the Energi wouldn't be available for a year anyway (this was late October 2012). A couple of the dealers actually followed up on my inquiries. One of them was pretty persistent so I fired off an email telling him that either his guy was lying about Energi availability (by then I had seen one on the lot in Michigan) or was uninformed - either way I wasn't going to do business there.

Joe Rizza Ford in Orland Park. IL , has a red Energi. Said they could not sell it yet (but could demo it) as they need 2 in from Ford before tey could sell one (according to the salsperson).

[redEV]

I'm new to this forum but not new to alternative fuel cars as we currently own a '12 Nissan LEAF as well as a Miata, a smart fortwo passion coupe and a VW Routan (Chrysler T&C minivan clone for those who don't know) spread across 3 drivers; the C-Max could replace the last one as it only gets 16 MPG around town (but 25-27 on trips) and that serves as my winter commuter during the winter months as well as our long trip car. As we installed an L2 240V charger for the LEAF the C-Max Energi (plug-in) might serve us well but due to its lower initial cost, availability of X-pricing (for Ford partner's/suppliers) as well as slightly more storage room (with the extra battery in the Energi you lose another 5 cu. ft.) the hybrid version may actually costs us much less versus the pay back required for the more expensive Energi. So I guess I would pose that question here -- did current C-Max hybrid owners consider waiting for the Energi or was it simply that the hybrid was available NOW and they needed to trade. etc. to get another car or did they consider the Energi?

 

Although there aren't many C-Max hybrids around Chicago, I found a dealer who had an SEL in stock for a test drive and came back fairly impressed. This one had the pano roof as well. About the only thing I wasn't crazy about was the firmness of the back seats (even with leather); seems for the sake of utility, they made these a bit thin. While I wouldn't ride back there much, how have those who have these found more than a quick trip comfort (especially for adults)? It also turns out this dealer has an Energi on order so hopefully in a few weeks I'll be able to compare the two side by side. I'm also cross shopping the C-max with a few more luxury mid-size crossovers/SUV's but once you have something powered (even part of the time) by electric its hard to imagine anything as quiet (which the C-Max definitely is!); the ride comfort and quietness was on par with my LEAF and you learn to appreciate it over time (we've had our LEAF for about 10 months).

 

i'll look further for driver impressions on the forum but responses here are welcome as well --

 

Thought I would circle back to my own thread as I finalized the replacement for our '09 VW Routan and it wasn't the C-Max taking the honors ...  as mentioned above I was also looking at crossovers/SUV's as we didn't need the 3rd row seats and wanted something a bit smaller but the other thing I did realize it that the back seat should REALLY be able to carry 3 adults comfortably and that's why I usually unfolded the 3rd row on the Routan (it has 2 captains chairs in 2nd row, not a bench) so we loaded up 3 normal people in the C-Max and it just didn't cut it! Those seats are quite hard and don't seem to want to 'give' if you don't quite fit the indentation of the bottom seat cushion. I think it's a great car for a couple who need an 'occasional' back seat for another two people but would not make a good long trip car (IMHO) for 2 + 2 even unless they were kids in car seats. I test drove a BMW X3, Acura RDX (the new one w/V6), Toyota Highlander Hybrid Ltd., and finally a VW Touareg TDI. The X3 was plush but the start/stop was unrefined and the accelerator was hard to regulate, the RDX was decent but seemed to lack the fit and finish of the BMW, the Highlander had tons of room, but the controls and displays seemed ancient for a '13 and the CVT trans was simply terrible as well as the interior was really stark so then came the Touareg TDI --- what a torque monster! ride was refined, very quiet interior, state of the art controls and decent highway MPG (rated 29 but many get 30/32 on level roads) but as the diesel adds a decent premium to the bottom line and you really need to drive about 15 to 20K miles a year to take advantage of it, decided on the 'regular' Touareg Sport VR6. What also changed since the first post is that my LEAF will become my commuter car as we also have a smart passion coupe that will revert back to my wife's use after my son gets his own car this coming late spring so this Touareg will get us both through any bad winter weather, serve as the 2 + 3 car, cargo carrier and long distance cruiser. VW gave me a quite decent trade-in (much better than an appraisal from Carmax) against another VW so I guess Ford has to wait a bit longer for my business --- plan to keep the T-reg at least 3 years so who know by then we could be swimming in better hybrid and/or plug-ins that don't give up on comfort and cargo by then.

 

As many over on the LEAF forum (including myself) continue to be interested on how things are going with new C-Max owner's I'm still a fan but it just wouldn't work for me ...         

[darrelld]

Thought I would circle back to my own thread as I finalized the replacement for our '09 VW Routan and it wasn't the C-Max taking the honors ...  as mentioned above I was also looking at crossovers/SUV's as we didn't need the 3rd row seats and wanted something a bit smaller but the other thing I did realize it that the back seat should REALLY be able to carry 3 adults comfortably and that's why I usually unfolded the 3rd row on the Routan (it has 2 captains chairs in 2nd row, not a bench) so we loaded up 3 normal people in the C-Max and it just didn't cut it! Those seats are quite hard and don't seem to want to 'give' if you don't quite fit the indentation of the bottom seat cushion. I think it's a great car for a couple who need an 'occasional' back seat for another two people but would not make a good long trip car (IMHO) for 2 + 2 even unless they were kids in car seats. I test drove a BMW X3, Acura RDX (the new one w/V6), Toyota Highlander Hybrid Ltd., and finally a VW Touareg TDI. The X3 was plush but the start/stop was unrefined and the accelerator was hard to regulate, the RDX was decent but seemed to lack the fit and finish of the BMW, the Highlander had tons of room, but the controls and displays seemed ancient for a '13 and the CVT trans was simply terrible as well as the interior was really stark so then came the Touareg TDI --- what a torque monster! ride was refined, very quiet interior, state of the art controls and decent highway MPG (rated 29 but many get 30/32 on level roads) but as the diesel adds a decent premium to the bottom line and you really need to drive about 15 to 20K miles a year to take advantage of it, decided on the 'regular' Touareg Sport VR6. What also changed since the first post is that my LEAF will become my commuter car as we also have a smart passion coupe that will revert back to my wife's use after my son gets his own car this coming late spring so this Touareg will get us both through any bad winter weather, serve as the 2 + 3 car, cargo carrier and long distance cruiser. VW gave me a quite decent trade-in (much better than an appraisal from Carmax) against another VW so I guess Ford has to wait a bit longer for my business --- plan to keep the T-reg at least 3 years so who know by then we could be swimming in better hybrid and/or plug-ins that don't give up on comfort and cargo by then.

 

As many over on the LEAF forum (including myself) continue to be interested on how things are going with new C-Max owner's I'm still a fan but it just wouldn't work for me ...         

 

Did you consider the Touareg Hybrid?

[redEV]

Did you consider the Touareg Hybrid?

 

 

Only briefly as its MSRP is $62K and its rated 20/24 ... very early in my experience on a 30 mile R/T commute (mixed highway, suburban and very minor stop & go) I'm seeing about 22 MPG with the 'regular' Touareg VR6 which is about 6 MPG better already than my Routan gave me on the very same route and I think that's because of the 8-speed automatic in the T-Reg versus the 6-speed that came with the Routi; interestingly enough, the transition through each gear is quite smooth and it doesn't appear to 'hunt' even with this many forward gear ratios (at least that I've noticed). Of course it's not broken in but if during the winter months it can maintain this rate or more I'll be happy -- in comparison, my LEAF costs about .46/day (30 mile commute / 4.3 miles per kWh * 6.6 cents fixed rate) so it's kind of like having 'carbon credits' with an EV in the house. This new Touareg is simply the best (true) VW I've owned (this is my 5th -- Scirocco > Fox > New Beetle TDI > Routon SEL) so I', pretty happy.