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What happened to the resale value?!!


Gustavo Monge
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New owner here!  just picked up my 2013 Ruby Red SEL with all the toys and panoramic roof for $18,600 with 24K miles.  Perfect in every way.  I am a home based worker and will put less than 5K miles year typically so the miles did not scare me.  Love the car so far.  Totaled my Cadillac STS-V so this is a big change.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I took my 2013 C Max SE to Carmax a week ago, and they offered me $16,000 for it.  That's not a hypothetical value, that's what they were actually prepared to pay.  The car has 7500 miles on it and it had a MSRP of $27,985 when I bought it.  That's a 42% decline from the sticker price in a year and a half.

 

In my opinion, people are ditching this car sooner than they otherwise would have because of the battery problem and other issues.  Wait until those car buyers discover why the original owner sold the car.  I think it may eventually become hard to resell this car for any reason, except at a very low price.

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bull,  you have to remember  Carmax is in the business of selling cars...  which means  when they buy a car  they have to be able to make money on it, recondition it, store it, market it......Buy low,  sell high...  its what used car dealers do.  I would not use them as a litmus test for car value...might as well sell the car to a pawn shop...

 

KBB shows a used car trade-in value of 18,500  with a private party value of 20K

 

new car depreciation...  its  a fact of life..  usually about 30% from  the day you drive it off the lot...

 

http://www.kbb.com/ford/c-max-hybrid/2013-ford-c-max-hybrid/sel-ownershipcosts/?vehicleid=377652&intent=buy-new

 

year one depreciation is $11K

 

Unless you are buying a barn find, classic car,  don't ever buy a car as an investment...

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Bull, I agree with Marc -- you've confused what a dealer is willing to pay you for your car with it's retail value. I guarantee you that if Carmax buys your car for $16K, the person they sell it to is not going to get it for $16K. They'll more likely list it for around $20K+.

 

Carmax most certainly pays less for a cash purchase that you would get for a trade because they've lost the profit they would have made on the other side of a deal (the markup on the car you're buying).

 

The correct way to figure your depreciation on the car you bought new is to find what a dealer would now sell it for as a used car.

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bull,  you have to remember  Carmax is in the business of selling cars...  which means  when they buy a car  they have to be able to make money on it, recondition it, store it, market it......Buy low,  sell high...  its what used car dealers do.  I would not use them as a litmus test for car value...might as well sell the car to a pawn shop...

 

KBB shows a used car trade-in value of 18,500  with a private party value of 20K

 

new car depreciation...  its  a fact of life..  usually about 30% from  the day you drive it off the lot...

 

http://www.kbb.com/ford/c-max-hybrid/2013-ford-c-max-hybrid/sel-ownershipcosts/?vehicleid=377652&intent=buy-new

 

year one depreciation is $11K

 

Unless you are buying a barn find, classic car,  don't ever buy a car as an investment...

I really don't care what KBB says, because they don't have any money riding on it.  I tried to trade in my C Max on a Subaru, and the dealer offered me $14,500 in trade!  When I gave them the Carmax price, they grudgingly agreed to match it.  $18,500 is a fantasy on this car.  

 

I would not sell this car to a private party, because I could not in good conscience recommend it after all of the battery failures I've had.  My point is simply that the problems with this car are driving down the resale value, and it will get worse.  

 

I didn't buy the car as an investment, but I did buy it with the idea of keeping it for ten years, which is my normal habit.  There is no way I want another 8 1/2 years of this.

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if you are willing to wholesale(which is what you are doing (even on a trade in)) your car to a dealer for 16,  than thats its worth, wholesale...  As a private consumer  you really cannot sell you car for retail value... but retail prices are north of 18K

 

KBB does have money ridding on it.  they are one of the experts in the field...  if they do a bad job estimating car values,  then  people stop relying on  them and their revenue drops...

 

nada has the depreciation @ $9200

you paid 27K for you cmax,  and nada and KBB are saying the depreciation averages 10K  getting a wholesale value for your car of 16,  isn't far off the mark...Carmax  threw a lowball number out..  I just checked carmax in fayetville and they have half a dozen  with 20+K miles  starting no haggle prices of 18,500- 22,900  so with your low miles  should garner a higher retail price based on carmax...so they are looking to try ot make a nice profit off of your car if they bought it...  heck even if they sold it for 22  they make 6K on it...

 

SO  again ,  if you want to sell your car to a wholesaler,  then you need to expect to take a hit...  you can't compare a car's value on a wholesale purchase/sale.  if you total your car today,  the insurance company won't give you wholesale value, they would give you retail value..I would imagine  that you'd get closer to 20K 

 

Its nice that you have scruples and don't feel comfortable selling the car to a private party..  just keep in mind that those scruples are going to cost you about 4-6K dollars...

 

 You don't have to lie to a private party buyer,  run a carfax on it  print it out and make it available to the prospective buyers...See what the carfax says....there have been plenty of people who have had zero problems...  If you have had so many problems,  go to ford  and tell them to buy the car back under the lemon laws...if its been in the dealership,  you have the receipts,  the computers will show it,  and if ford says no,  then go to your state AG office or consumer protection office...File a claim with them...the worst thing they can say is NO,  and if you don't ask,  you'll never know.

 

a 2014 prius  has a first year depreciation (according to the nada and KBB) of 11K  and its a much cheaper car and its a known commodity.

 

Buying a first model year car is ALWAYS a leap of faith... I assumed that since the car has been in play in europe for quite a few years that  they would have some of the kinks worked out...and I felt comfortable making the leap

 

FWIW  I paid 19,200 out the door for my cmax a couple months ago...  and knock wood,  it has been flawless for the last  few thousand miles...

Edited by Marc Smith
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Yep, cars are bad investments unless you are into the classics. Oh, I wish I had the E-type...

 

Anyway, I knew what I was heading to with my Oct 2012 build C-Max and its been running extremely well - both in the heat and the snowy conditions of Mammoth. Aside from 1 odd warning message and the lack of a tire replacement, its been smooth sailing and GREAT MPGs as well. I think I am going to hit my 6th 800+ mile tank with this one. Thats 4800+ miles on 78 gallons of gas, gotta :flirt:  Maxine.

 

ps talk about lemons, fancy plonking $50K on a 2004 Jaguar XJ thats been to the shop 20+ time and we are talking 3+ days at a time? Galpin Jaguar really took care of us but they never quite solved the issue and they replaced many part. As it turned out, my wife correctly diagnosed the issue to a loose wire just under the stick shift that, under the right CRAPPY roads here in the Los Angeles street, would short and cause electronic havoc - who needs the Chinese electronic warfare, the 04 Jag did a better job  ;) 

 

However, never once did my wife and I considered a lemon (well I did) but she loved Jaguars and each time, we got to drive the next S-Type, XF and I got the XK once. Jus amazing how the dealer treats you makes your issues a lot more palatable. Currently, my CMax has been way more reliable than her 06 Jaguar. Go CMax :rockon: ...and better MPGs too :drool:

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  • 5 weeks later...

Was looking to see if there was any Used CMAX's in the Greater Atlanta and couldn't find one at any FORD Dealers. Looked on Ebay and found one. WOW!  I did some searching and found CARMAX seems to be buying them up, there is 42 listed with the cheapest at over $19K. Looks like they are pushing up the value of our cars! :)

 

Paul

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CarMax 'nearly new' cars are quite likely former rental cars.

I've seen several online originally titled in Orlando, Florida, obviously a huge vacation destination.

After a rental-agency determined maximum number of months and/or maximum miles of service, the cars are sold at auction for resale.

post-1940-0-46556500-1407117547_thumb.png

(This specific car was NOT at a CarMax dealer. VIN redacted.)

 

If you look up the Monroney sticker for the specific VIN number, a former rental C-MAX will likely show a SPECIAL ORDER status (meaning fleet purchase), and many show Daytime Running Lights listed, an $45 option not available to individual buyers.

post-1940-0-84988100-1407117813_thumb.jpg

 
Edited by kostby
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have seen a few C-max's listed via private sellers over the past 6 months.  They were both asking around $23k.  I think they were SEL's.   I just looked on Carmax and they have a bunch.  The SE's are going for $19k to $20k and some higher.  I can get a  new SE for $21K, and with some options for $22k after rebate ($26k sticker).  Not sure why i would buy used but at least the asking price seem pretty good from a sellers standpoint.  Now how many they sell at that price is another matter.  

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  • 7 months later...

First of all I love my C-Max.  However,... the amount of recall, reprogramming and the decreased mpg (it seems) associated with each of these has me thinking of trading mine in until I looked at the KBB trade in value.

 

2013 Ford C-Max SEL with every option except moonroof trade in value is a little more than 11K.  I bought it with 20K miles in November of 2013 for $24,500 and thought I was getting a great deal.  From new to 2 years old it has retained on 37% of its value.  Unfortunately I will have to keep it unless I can get a private party buyer.

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You "love" your C-max but it's "unfortunate" you have to keep her?   You lost me there.

 

I have a 2013 SEL and in a year of ownership I have only been in the dealership once for a recall/reprogram.  From what I gather from the senior members on this site, MPGs have not suffered due to these recalls---in fact their mileage seems to be the same or better. 

 

I actually welcome a chance to update/upgrade/reprogram because it would suggest the more bugs get worked out, the less chance I will encounter the dead battery scenario.  And besides, I get a free car wash and interior clean :victory:

Edited by Adrian_L
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First of all I love my C-Max.  However,... the amount of recall, reprogramming and the decreased mpg (it seems) associated with each of these has me thinking of trading mine in until I looked at the KBB trade in value.

 

2013 Ford C-Max SEL with every option except moonroof trade in value is a little more than 11K.  I bought it with 20K miles in November of 2013 for $24,500 and thought I was getting a great deal.  From new to 2 years old it has retained on 37% of its value.  Unfortunately I will have to keep it unless I can get a private party buyer.

You must have a lot of miles on your C-Max as the 11 k seems low otherwise.  My take on selling / trading follows.

 

I agree that the EPA revised FE and the IQS, dependability, and reliability surveys being worse than average car turned many prospective buyers away.  In addition, Ford has offered deep discounts on new C-Maxes pushing resale value down.  So, resale value goes down.

 

I also agree that taking ones C-Max to the dealership frequently for recalls and updates is a nuisance.  Mine has been to the dealer six times since purchase in Dec. 2012. Four times for recalls, one for a wheel alignment, and once for a DTC for traction control.  I still have one more trip to make for a recall.  So that will be at least five trips to the dealer in last than 3 years of ownership for safety and performance recalls. That may be acceptable for some as they likely have their oil changes and other routine maintenance done at the dealer and incorporate the recall work into their scheduled maintenance visits.  But for other owners and prospective buyers it's a negative when comparing to other vehicles they have owned.  So, resale value may go down.

 

But having said the above, I do not plan on getting rid of my C-Max anytime soon.  My overall FE is approaching 42 mpg.  The car has been rock solid in comfort and performance.   Any buyer back in 2012 or 2013 through due diligence should have been able to "see through" the incorrect EPA FE numbers (many, many early independent reviews / tests on FE) and the issues affecting the worse than average survey results (much discussion on forums of the issues).  Ford lowering the EPA numbers is of no consequence to me as I'm getting what I expected in FE when I made the purchase (and Ford paid me for their mistake).  So, I find no "economic" or "performance" reasons to sell / trade my C-Max.  

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I think +3 nailed it with why resale value has gone down so far.  

 

While buyer's remorse can strike anyone with anything, those who buy an evolutionary vehicle in its first year are certainly taking a big risk.  I applaud those of you who were willing to take that chance, as I certainly wouldn't have done so.  Heck, it was nervous enough buying the second year vehicle I had heard so little about.  But to turn around and then bemoan the lack of resale value is a bit shortsighted.  Going in you HAD to have known that was a very real possibility, with no track record to judge otherwise.

 

I would assume anyone making that leap of faith would have to be in it for the long run, or at the very least know they could get burned and deal with it accordingly.

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You "love" your C-max but it's "unfortunate" you have to keep her?   You lost me there.

 

I have a 2013 SEL and in a year of ownership I have only been in the dealership once for a recall/reprogram.  From what I gather from the senior members on this site, MPGs have not suffered due to these recalls---in fact their mileage seems to be the same or better. 

 

I actually welcome a chance to update/upgrade/reprogram because it would suggest the more bugs get worked out, the less chance I will encounter the dead battery scenario.  And besides, I get a free car wash and interior clean :victory:

I love the car. However I am tired of all of the time I spend at the dealer getting reprogrammed or recall work done. That is the reason I was looking to trade. The unfortunate part is that the trade in value is so low it doesn't make fiscal sense to trade. I hope I didn't lose you on that point.

 

Like you in some ways I look forward to the updates hoping for an improvement in gas mileage and performance. I don't like the time it takes nor that I have to rent a car each time. By my count I have had at least 6 instances where updates were done.

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I know it has been mentioned here but I think it is worth repeating -- gas prices are low and don't seem to be in a hurry to go back up. Because of this, the pricing for all hybrids has gone down. When gas prices go back up, the resell value of hybrids should also improve. 

 

I sometimes have to question the American car buying public. I don't want to say they are stupid (though there are moments it seems they are), just more that they are short sighted. Gas prices go down and, almost immediately, lots of people run out to buy big, gas guzzling, cars and trucks. Yet, when the gas prices go back up (as we all know they will), they'll be the ones heavily complaining about resell value, as many of these buying the gas guzzlers will be trying to trade them in, since they can't afford the payments and the gas these vehicles use.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I know it has been mentioned here but I think it is worth repeating -- gas prices are low and don't seem to be in a hurry to go back up. Because of this, the pricing for all hybrids has gone down. When gas prices go back up, the resell value of hybrids should also improve. 

 

I sometimes have to question the American car buying public. I don't want to say they are stupid (though there are moments it seems they are), just more that they are short sighted. Gas prices go down and, almost immediately, lots of people run out to buy big, gas guzzling, cars and trucks. Yet, when the gas prices go back up (as we all know they will), they'll be the ones heavily complaining about resell value, as many of these buying the gas guzzlers will be trying to trade them in, since they can't afford the payments and the gas these vehicles use.

 

The whole idea that driving big, gas guzzling vehicles is part of the "North American lifestyle" makes as little sense to me as the idea that we need to have restaurant food portions that would happily feed 3 in Europe.   Things will change, as they did when the energy crisis hit and it wasn't so cool driving that Gran Torino around with the gas needle that could be seen moving on the highway!

Edited by Adrian_L
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The whole idea that driving big, gas guzzling vehicles is part of the "North American lifestyle" makes as little sense to me as the idea that we need to have restaurant food portions that would happily feed 3 in Europe.   Things will change, as they did when the energy crisis hit and it wasn't so cool driving that Gran Torino around with the gas needle that could be seen moving on the highway!

I sure miss those days, we didn't know how good we had it.

 

Paul

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Indeed, I recall my father griping about 25 cents a gallon back in 1971...

I got my drivers license in October 1968 in Springfield, MO. We routinely had gas wars around town that kept the price at around 18 cents a gallon and sometimes a bit lower. It always irritated me when it went past 20 cents.

 

But, that magic kingdom completely disappeared in 1973 when the oil embargo arrived.

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