Oil Quality and Change Interval

[ptjones]

You did a spreadsheet, right?

 

Interesting that you're going by ICE miles, not vehicle miles. My changes become:

10,434 unknown EV (prior owner) but high fraction ICE

9,663  3,767EV so 5,896 ICE miles

10,386, 6,192EV so 4,194 ICE miles

 

My key wear-out indicator is TBN, and my oil is close enough to 1.0 that I'm happy with a 10K change interval. What I'm curious about are fuel in the oil, and wear products like Al, Fe and Mb, which all follow a similar high-low-high pattern. Hybrids have a unique run/stop pattern; does it show up in the oil?

 

Fuel could just be from sampling a cold engine (I'll sample warm oil next time), but it's also a characteristic of cold starts. My first oil change was a January change, but the next two are August. There's no environmental effect between the last two, but a big flashpoint and %fuel effect. Need more data.

 

Wear items should all show a declining trend as the engine breaks in. Three ticked up (Al, Fe, Mb), while others continued their decline (Cu, Si). No concerns, just potential trends waiting on an error estimate to become either signal or noise.  

 

So, quit talking and post some oil results!!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

Patience, this isn't a race. LOL  Here is my spread sheet. LOL :)  I want to go 10K ICE miles. :shift:

[fbov]

Here's how mine starts, too. We're just two old guys with pencils, at heart...

 

Being somewhat dyslexic, I use spreadsheets as a survival tactic. I got tired of checking my answers and getting a different result every time. Spreadsheet allow me to enter once, calculate twice if the answer looks off.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

Edited November 4, 2015 by fbov

[stevedebi]

Sample data sheet sm.jpg

Here's how mine starts, too. We're just two old guys with pencils, at heart...

 

Being somewhat dyslexic, I use spreadsheets as a survival tactic. I got tired of checking my answers and getting a different result every time. Spreadsheet allow me to enter once, calculate twice if the answer looks off.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

I keep track of my mileages and etc on a spreadsheet - on my phone. The sheet is on a cloud drive, so I can easily check it from my computer, and yet still fill in data on my phone.

[BIG ROCCO]

I like the pencil and paper versions

[ptjones]

I keep track of my mileages and etc on a spreadsheet - on my phone. The sheet is on a cloud drive, so I can easily check it from my computer, and yet still fill in data on my phone.

I just take a iPhone pic trip display every time I fill up. Then I can put in actual calculated GPS miles and actual fill up gallons in Fuelly later.  I think I have 186 fill ups on my iPhone.  :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

I like the pencil and paper versions

Yep; the car has a log book with the important stuff, while the trip data goes in a pile on my desk.

 

Hard to beat marks on paper...

 

Frank

[stevedebi]

Yep; the car has a log book with the important stuff, while the trip data goes in a pile on my desk.

 

Hard to beat marks on paper...

 

Frank

Not for me - my data is everywhere I want it to be, all the time, and I don't need to worry about keeping track of a physical log book - or finding the pencil when needed. Plus, I can do analysis on the data using spreadsheets (which I do, calculating MPGe and stuff like that automatically).

 

But I accept that many folks prefer the pencil. I had a log back when I started driving as well.

[BIG ROCCO]

Not for me - my data is everywhere I want it to be, all the time, and I don't need to worry about keeping track of a physical log book - or finding the pencil when needed. Plus, I can do analysis on the data using spreadsheets (which I do, calculating MPGe and stuff like that automatically).

 

But I accept that many folks prefer the pencil. I had a log back when I started driving as well.

 

 

I bet the same people who prefer pencil and paper also prefer magazines printed in paper - the rest might prefer e-zines or viewing content on a website...there is no correct answer - just a matter of personal preference.

[fbov]

Not for me - my data is everywhere I want it to be, ...

Until it's not.

 

We know the longevity of a log book. See me in 10 years about "data everywhere."

 

Frank

[stevedebi]

Until it's not.

 

We know the longevity of a log book. See me in 10 years about "data everywhere."

 

Frank

The data is also stored on my phone and computer, regardless of what happens to the cloud. In 10 years, I doubt I'll particularly care about the mileage and other details of my 2014 C-Max Energi, or my 2014 VW Passat TDI. Well, the TDI may still be in my stable, but probably not the C-Max.

[stevedebi]

I bet the same people who prefer pencil and paper also prefer magazines printed in paper - the rest might prefer e-zines or viewing content on a website...there is no correct answer - just a matter of personal preference.

Oddly enough, for books and magazines, I still prefer hard copy.

[ptjones]

Just did another 700 mi. tank fillup, but only 235  ICE miles for a total of 8663 ICE mi. on this oil change.  At this rate I'll need to 5 more fillups and about 3500 mi. more before I will have 10K ICE miles. So total miles should be 23.5K miles. WOW! :shift:  :)

 

Paul

P.S. My Life Time EV% is close to 50%, maybe by the time I change my Oil and Filter.

[stevedebi]

Just did another 700 mi. tank fillup, but only 235  ICE miles for a total of 8663 ICE mi. on this oil change.  At this rate I'll need to 5 more fillups and about 3500 mi. more before I will have 10K ICE miles. So total miles should be 23.5K miles. WOW! :shift:  :)

 

Paul

P.S. My Life Time EV% is close to 50%, maybe by the time I change my Oil and Filter.

But your Ford built in oil change alert will go on before 23.5, right? Or did you reset it?

[fbov]

AFAIK, the oil change alert is miles-only. Every 10K miles, regardless of EV%... at least I didn't see a difference in interval, comparing a period of highway driving (low EV%) and back roads driving (high EV%).

 

Paul may be doing the oil life experiment... I don't like my oil results after 10K total miles enough to extend change intervals yet, so I'm very interested in what's different after 25K.

 

Frank

[ptjones]

But your Ford built in oil change alert will go on before 23.5, right? Or did you reset it?

I think it came on at 10K mi. and I turned it off. It should be coming on again soon that I'm approaching 20K mi.  Mobil 1's TV ADD's say upto 15K miles on an Oil Change so 10K isn't pushing the envelope much.  I already have 112K mi. Total /56K ICE miles with no Oil usage.  :)

 

Paul

Edited November 16, 2015 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Finally had my oil changed, AZ trip extended my duration, so I ended up with 25,400 mi. ODO and 11,400 mi. ICE.using Mobil 1 0-20W full synthetic Oil.  Still hadn't used a noticeable amount of oil.  Sending my oil sample off to Blackstone Labs. :)

 

Paul

[BIG ROCCO]

116K miles?  That's a lot, Paul, and I don't think you have reported a lot of issues with reliability.  I'm old enough to still think of anything over 100K as a lot and living on borrowed time...or at least for a car that is reliable, runs and looks good, and doesn't cost a lot to own and repair.   How did you accumulate so many miles so quickly?  Is that the most total miles we have heard of?  Where did you go in AZ?  We live in the Phoenix area. 

[ptjones]

116K miles?  That's a lot, Paul, and I don't think you have reported a lot of issues with reliability.  I'm old enough to still think of anything over 100K as a lot and living on borrowed time...or at least for a car that is reliable, runs and looks good, and doesn't cost a lot to own and repair.   How did you accumulate so many miles so quickly?  Is that the most total miles we have heard of?  Where did you go in AZ?  We live in the Phoenix area. 

With my work I travel a lot sometimes and I do have a Daughter and Grandson in Surprise and in-laws in Williams. We lived in Flagstaff for 25yrs. so we are back 4-6 times a year at 3500 mi. each time. The ICE is great not using a noticeable amount of oil in 11,400 ICE miles.   I did have the Trans replaced at 98K mi.  Maybe we can get together next time I'm out there.  :) 

 

Paul 

[BIG ROCCO]

With my work I travel a lot sometimes and I do have a Daughter and Grandson in Surprise and in-laws in Williams. We lived in Flagstaff for 25yrs. so we are back 4-6 times a year at 3500 mi. each time. The ICE is great not using a noticeable amount of oil in 11,400 ICE miles.   I did have the Trans replaced at 98K mi.  Maybe we can get together next time I'm out there.  :)

 

Paul 

Well, we are pretty darn far from Surprise - in Fountain Hills - maybe could meet somewhere in the middle.  We had a '13 SEL - totalled it after 30K miles - now have a '15 SEL exactly the same interior/exterior color and options - we tried to find something different that we liked better - could not do it!

[ptjones]

I will PM you when in the area

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Got report back from Blackstone Labs on my oil sample. I guess we could compare it to others. :)

If not big enough after clicking on report, click on options and then click on large.

 

Paul

Edited December 29, 2015 by ptjones

[obob]

 

Got report back from Blackstone Labs on my oil sample. I guess we could compare it to others. :)

 

If not big enough after clicking on report, click on options and then click on large.

 

Paul

 

 

In case this helps other people:

 

My experience of getting the picture larger was different - using chrome browser on Linux

 

click on report

View all images

Click on the oil report (presently the first small picture)

Option – view all sizes

click Large

[hybridbear]

Got report back from Blackstone Labs on my oil sample. I guess we could compare it to others. :)

Did you only report ICE miles to them as your interval, not odometer miles? You might want to clarify that with them. They reference comparing your results to other Fords with this ICE, if they think you did a lot less odometer miles than you actually did, you may lead them to false conclusions.

[ptjones]

Did you only report ICE miles to them as your interval, not odometer miles? You might want to clarify that with them. They reference comparing your results to other Fords with this ICE, if they think you did a lot less odometer miles than you actually did, you may lead them to false conclusions.

I talked to Blackstone Labs and they said most people use Odometer readings. I got them thinking about adding ICE vs Odometer on Hybrids. For my case they said I was doing very well and 117K mi. to boot. :)

 

Paul

Edited January 4, 2016 by ptjones

[fbov]

I threw Paul's data in with mine:

- 10K change intervals from 5.8K (I missed the first change),

- First two use Ford synthetic blend, the third with a generic full-synthetic 0W20. Mobil One 0W20 is in the sump. 

Right-most, orange data is Paul's, identified by date and mileage in the legend.

 

Responses are scaled, with the degree of scaling shown in the column ID (e.g. "Zn E-1" means that Zinc values shown are divided by 10).

 

There are some very striking differences. I didn't scale Magnesium; it really is "off the chart!" As to significance, I defer to Bob, the oil guy.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/

 

Many values are comparable, so I'll focus on what's different. That starts with the "3M's" of Molybdenum, Manganese and Magnesium.

- Mb is an oil additive, so a 2x difference isn't unreasonable.

Mobil may use to a larger degree than Ford or my generic. Next change will tell if it's in the Mobil One lubricant. 

- Mn is alloyed with other metals, so it's presence should correlate with alloy partners.

Metal wear levels are low, so there's no alloy correlate, and the level is 10x higher so it's unlikely an oil additive difference. My next change might be telling but this is odd. 

- Mg is both an additive and an alloy, and it's 100x greater in Paul's oil.

Again, one doesn't expect a 100x difference in an additive level, and there is no obvious alloy partner wearing... Make that very odd!

 

Si levels say you're not getting grit past the air filter; that's good news.Your viscosity is a bit higher, again consistent with severe service interval. I'm glad to see you also have reduced flash point, due to a little fuel in the oil. I'm going to try a little highway driving just before my next change, to see if I can drive the fuel out of the oil.

 

The one place where we see the severe service interval is Barium, as this detergent additive is not found in Paul's oil. How I wish you'd measured TBN!!! 

 

My next oil change won't be until Summer, which will address questions of base oil formulation, as we'll both have data from Mobil products. In the mean time, you may want to look in the 3M's, as I doubt those deviations will be explained by oil formulation. I'd start at the source; ask Blackstone if they saw other odd Mg levels when your sample was measured.

 

Have fun,

Frank

Edited January 5, 2016 by fbov