Considering Purchasing 2013, worried about battery

[kostby]

Not that it matters, Paul, but here's the story:  I took it in for the recall that was supposed to fix the battery problem.  They told me that the battery was so run down that they replaced it. That was December of 2013, and that's incident number one.  In February, Ione fine morning, it was drained and would not start.  It could not be jumped, and was towed.  The dealer recharged the battery and did something, claiming that it was cold weather that caused the problem.  That was incident number 2.   I took it in for two recalls in June, and asked them to check the battery.  They told me they replaced it.  That's incident number three.  Now, today, it was dead, and that's incident number four.  No, I have not tried jumping it today.  You see, my previous car was a Toyota that I had for 13 years, and before that I had a Honda for ten years, and together, both of them spent less time in the shop in 23 years than the C-Max has spent in a year and a half.   So I, unlike you, am not used to cars that need to carry around a mechanical shop in the the trunk.

 

I think your attitude is indicative of what's wrong with Detroit.  If there are persistent problems, somehow it's the customer's fault for not doing something differently.   

 

http://www.ncdoj.gov/consumer/automobiles/lemon-law.aspx

Edited July 5, 2014 by kostby

[Jus-A-CMax]

Not that it matters, Paul, but here's the story:  I took it in for the recall that was supposed to fix the battery problem.  They told me that the battery was so run down that they replaced it. That was December of 2013, and that's incident number one.  In February, Ione fine morning, it was drained and would not start.  It could not be jumped, and was towed.  The dealer recharged the battery and did something, claiming that it was cold weather that caused the problem.  That was incident number 2.   I took it in for two recalls in June, and asked them to check the battery.  They told me they replaced it.  That's incident number three.  Now, today, it was dead, and that's incident number four.  No, I have not tried jumping it today.  You see, my previous car was a Toyota that I had for 13 years, and before that I had a Honda for ten years, and together, both of them spent less time in the shop in 23 years than the C-Max has spent in a year and a half.   So I, unlike you, am not used to cars that need to carry around a mechanical shop in the the trunk.

 

I think your attitude is indicative of what's wrong with Detroit.  If there are persistent problems, somehow it's the customer's fault for not doing something differently.   

 

Oi...theres no need for personal attack Paul. He's only offering suggestions.

 

I understand you have CMax and personal issues so move your CMax on - do what you have to do to get rifd of that CMax - its a lemon and not all Ford dealers are great or responsive.

 

Thousands of cars are made, not all of them are good. Mine is an Oct 2012 build and its been perfect. So I will always contrast my story with yours and for the issues that I have had, Galpin Ford has always taken care of biz. Selecting a good dealer with a nice service record is crucial. It sounds like your dealer has passed the buck too many times.

 

As well, Ford reps are on this forum - Ashley. Feel free to PM them to get them involved with your case. Anyway - please back off the personal attacks, its not called for.

 

Thanks.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[knahs42]

I have a question regarding the battery - seems to be more of an issue in the SE model than SEL and more so in 2013 than 2014.  Is it the same battery model in all versions or is there a specific battery that performs better than another?

[ptjones]

I have a question regarding the battery - seems to be more of an issue in the SE model than SEL and more so in 2013 than 2014.  Is it the same battery model in all versions or is there a specific battery that performs better than another?

Alot of confusion here, The battery isn't the problem, something electrical is running it down causing it to fail. If you want to guarantee you aren't going to have battery problems get a used low miles 2013 CMAX and look at it's history and if their where no battery problems you should be OK. IMO :)

 

Paul

[knahs42]

Local dealer is trying to talk me into a new 2013 that is still on the lot.  It is fully loaded and they said because it is a 13 they will give me a good price - about the same as what I was looking at for the 2014 that had no options.  After reading all this, I am just concerned since it has been on the lot, I guess a year.  Is there any way from the window sticker to tell exactly when it was built?

[ptjones]

Local dealer is trying to talk me into a new 2013 that is still on the lot.  It is fully loaded and they said because it is a 13 they will give me a good price - about the same as what I was looking at for the 2014 that had no options.  After reading all this, I am just concerned since it has been on the lot, I guess a year.  Is there any way from the window sticker to tell exactly when it was built?

It is printed on the door sticker. :)

 

Paul

[Jus-A-CMax]

@knahs42 SEL generally have less chance of battery issues than the SE. If this fourm is the world, one could extrapolate to reckon there are far more satisfied SEL owners with NO battery issues whatsoever than SEs (there was even a poll here).

 

I think its more important to check out the dealer rating (go see that section here) than the deal being offered as if you have any issues, a reputable dealer is worth their weight in gold, versus a "fly by night" dealer. Ford is well aware of these issues and there has been some success. Every car has issues - just look around. A dead battery risk is far better than a dead car ala GM. As salsaguy said, at least not 1 person has been killed with a dead battery vs GM. Check out the dealer and do your assessment with heavy weighting there...jus my 2c.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[Smiling Jack]

@knahs42 SEL generally have less chance of battery issues than the SE. If this fourm is the world, one could extrapolate to reckon there are far more satisfied SEL owners with NO battery issues whatsoever than SEs (there was even a poll here).

 

I think its more important to check out the dealer rating (go see that section here) than the deal being offered as if you have any issues, a reputable dealer is worth their weight in gold, versus a "fly by night" dealer. Ford is well aware of these issues and there has been some success. Every car has issues - just look around. A dead battery risk is far better than a dead car ala GM. As salsaguy said, at least not 1 person has been killed with a dead battery vs GM. Check out the dealer and do your assessment with heavy weighting there...jus my 2c.

 

Yeah, Jus.  I agreee, mostly, but there are two other big points to be made re. the GM switch problem and the C-max battery problem:

 

1. GM knew about the switch problem early-on and tried to hide it rather than fix it.  (Once again, the cover-up is indeed worse than the crime.)  But once the cat was out of the bag, they were able to fix the thing.

 

2. Ford, although they initially tried to trivialize the problem (and a lot of dealers apparently still do so), were never guilty of hiding it.  Unfortunately they have, so far (well over a year), proven completely inept at diagnosing it, let alone solving it. 

 

So, what do we prefer:  malevolence or incompetence ?

 

I prefer incompetence.  At least that can be cured.

[Jus-A-CMax]

I dunno about calling Ford incompetent since we hear some stories and we have and never will get the actual numbers of cars effected by this. If we followed the battery thread Ford has made some solutions available but it looks like some work and some did not. So they are doing something and it looks like the later models appear to have less issues. If I had to choose, I'll take your same preference. If it came to those 2 negative choices.

 

I own a1st year model and I took a risk. Thus far, there are no issues. No trivializing those who have issues. Had I been unfortunate, then I know what a great dealer I have in Galpin Ford and they will take care of business. And I will disclose my GPS was all cockeyed in the early days and advise from ArizonaEnergi and then I suggested Galpin replace the module eventhough the Ford testing (over 2 days) reflected nothing (if I recall the conversation). Since then, its been SPOT ON. I can't speak for AE but I truly believe there were a bad batch of GPS, and occassionally these bad GPS come up (you can always tell by the comments - "Hey I'm driving on the mountain or the river" kinda post).

 

Based on what I have seen here, it appears bad issues reflect poor customer service between dealers and the owners. And trivialization from some dealers as well because they do NOT understand hybrids (jus look at the funny post about Jennifer? the sale person about the CMax one poster here posted - see she's famous now)

 

I'm thankful for my car, BLISTERING MPGs daily that is well beyond the original EPA and so many positive aspects to the car, I'll consider it one of the best cars I have driven and owned.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[darrelld]

We purchased a portable battery booster my wife carries in the C-Max hidden floor compartment similar to this;

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Ll1000-Li-Ion-Battery-Starter/dp/B005IU28AW/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1406287256&sr=1-2&keywords=stanley+simple+start

 

There has been one occasion for its use, my wifes coworker had an F150 that wouldn't start. She let the coworker borrow her booster and within 5 min he was on his way.

Edited July 25, 2014 by darrelld

[Smiling Jack]

I dunno about calling Ford incompetent...............

................

 

Ok, Jus, thanks for reining me in.  Maybe "incompetent" is a little harsh since they have not given up and are still working on it.  Let's give tham a few more years before we use that label.

 

However, I'm sticking with "inept." 

Edited July 25, 2014 by Smiling Jack

[darrelld]

Not that it matters, Paul, but here's the story:  I took it in for the recall that was supposed to fix the battery problem.  They told me that the battery was so run down that they replaced it. That was December of 2013, and that's incident number one.  In February, Ione fine morning, it was drained and would not start.  It could not be jumped, and was towed.  The dealer recharged the battery and did something, claiming that it was cold weather that caused the problem.  That was incident number 2.   I took it in for two recalls in June, and asked them to check the battery.  They told me they replaced it.  That's incident number three.  Now, today, it was dead, and that's incident number four.  No, I have not tried jumping it today.  You see, my previous car was a Toyota that I had for 13 years, and before that I had a Honda for ten years, and together, both of them spent less time in the shop in 23 years than the C-Max has spent in a year and a half.   So I, unlike you, am not used to cars that need to carry around a mechanical shop in the the trunk.

 

I think your attitude is indicative of what's wrong with Detroit.  If there are persistent problems, somehow it's the customer's fault for not doing something differently.   

 

 

I would have the dealer or maybe go to another dealer if one is available to verify the update was actually performed. I ran into a problem with my C-Max on the door chime recall, the door chime behavior has not changed since the update. I have to take the C-Max in anyway for items relating to the accident it was involved in.

[knahs42]

I'm trying to find the dealer rating section referred to in the post above. 

I did end up getting a 2014 CMAX SEL yesterday but dealer has to bring it from another dealer.  I had gotten some better pricing from dealers closer to DC but I figured if I was having issues, I would want to deal with someone local.  While they did try to push the 2013 they had on the lot, the salesman found me a 2014 that has no other options on it - just base.  They had initially priced out one with the 302 group but there was just no way I could afford that.  I just wish he had looked a little further as I found one (after I signed the deal) that was just the base car but it did have just the power liftgate which was the only option I was interested in and I would have swung for that.  I am surprised that dealers are not that helpful in locating cars at other dealers like they use to be.

Anyway, I would be interested in locating the dealer rating section to see how my local dealer scores.

[kostby]

I'm not aware of a specific section containing dealer ratings within these forums.

 

This is the service used by the dealer where we purchased our C-MAX: http://www.dealerrater.com

[BullDurham]

I would have the dealer or maybe go to another dealer if one is available to verify the update was actually performed. I ran into a problem with my C-Max on the door chime recall, the door chime behavior has not changed since the update. I have to take the C-Max in anyway for items relating to the accident it was involved in.

Oh, it's been performed.  I sent a pm to Ashley on this site and she was in contact with the dealer.  They kept the car for two weeks after the latest dead battery.  They were in contact with Ford about every possible fix.  Finally, Michelle of Ford Customer Service called me and said the dealer had done everything he could do and the matter had been "escalated" to Ford Engineering.  What this means is that Ford recognizes they have not solved the problem yet.  The service adviser wrote on my ticket:  "SSM44559--Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem."  (Maybe some of the tech wizards in the forum can find out more about SSM44559.)  The service adviser told me that Ford had told him that they hoped to have a solution by October.  But, of course, 13B12 was supposed to be a fix last December.

 

I will repeat what I said above, even if the moderator doesn't like it:  this is Ford's problem to fix, and it shouldn't be blamed on anyone else.  I'm sure some dealers could do a better job. And I'm sure that customers could mitigate the situation somewhat by carrying around battery chargers.  But neither of those would even be issues if Ford fixed the underlying problem.

[BobJustBob]

BullDurham,

 

I am in the exact same situation as you.  My dealer has performed every known "fix" for the 12V battery problem on my C-Max, without success.  I, too, have an open case with Ford Customer Service.  It is up to the engineers at Ford to come up with an effective solution to this problem.

[ptjones]

At this point I think it's safe to say that there are a number problems causing the issue (Dead 12v Battery) . Some of these problems have been fixed, but apparently not yours. Jumper Battery seems to be the simplest short term solution until FORD can figure out your problem. IMO :) 

 

Paul     

[Smiling Jack]

At this point I think it's safe to say that there are a number problems causing the issue (Dead 12v Battery) . Some of these problems have been fixed, but apparently not yours. Jumper Battery seems to be the simplest short term solution until FORD can figure out your problem. IMO :)

 

Paul     

 

My opinion is:

 

There is an underlying cause of the 12-volt battery problems and than there are many immediate causes of failure.

 

The system just seems to be way too vulnerable to failures from various immediate causes.  Ford has been struggling to diagnose and fix a long series of immediate causes, but it is like a big disastrous game of Whack-A-Mole.  (Every time they fix one, another pops up.)

 

I think that the underlying cause must be in the nature of an unacceptable vulnerability of the 12-volt system, and that the whole problem will not go away until that underlying vulnerability is diagnosed and cured.

[mlsstl]

Unlike some on this forum, I'm not convinced that this is mainly a SE problem.I ran the numbers from the poll on this site, and 66% of the battery problems were tied to SEs, 20% to SELs and 14% to Energis.

 

What we don't know are the percentages of each model sold. Presumably the SE model is going to be the more popular one because of price and the Energi will be the lowest seller for the same reason.

 

It seems there is a good chance that the battery problem is evenly distributed among the models on the same basis as their sales percentage. In that case, having a SEL or Energi does not insulate an owner from the chance of problems any more than having a SE.

 

On the other hand, if SEs are 80% of sales, their rate of failure would actually be lower than the fancier models.

 

(I should also note that the poll in this thread may or may not be representative of the scope of the problem. There are obviously owners who do not participate in this forum.)

 

As such, I'm in the camp that is still waiting for Ford to definitively identify the underlying cause of the problem. Only then can we have much confidence that any fix is going to be permanent.

Edited July 27, 2014 by mlsstl

[scottwood2]

Unlike some on this forum, I'm not convinced that this is mainly a SE problem.I ran the numbers from the poll on this site, and 66% of the battery problems were tied to SEs, 20% to SELs and 14% to Energis.

 

What we don't know are the percentages of each model sold. Presumably the SE model is going to be the more popular one because of price and the Energi will be the lowest seller for the same reason.

 

It seems there is a good chance that the battery problem is evenly distributed among the models on the same basis as their sales percentage. In that case, having a SEL or Energi does not insulate an owner from the chance of problems any more than having a SE.

 

On the other hand, if SEs are 80% of sales, their rate of failure would actually be lower than the fancier models.

 

(I should also note that the poll in this thread may or may not be representative of the scope of the problem. There are obviously owners who do not participate in this forum.)

 

As such, I'm in the camp that is still waiting for Ford to definitively identify the underlying cause of the problem. Only then can we have much confidence that any fix is going to be permanent.

Well said.  It is very hard to tell with numbers not tied to the percentage of the population of c-max's.  

 

I do think it would be helpful if the model and option packages were posted for each member here.  Some list model but I don't see option packages.  

[dmk2000]

At this point I think it's safe to say that there are a number problems causing the issue (Dead 12v Battery) . Some of these problems have been fixed, but apparently not yours. Jumper Battery seems to be the simplest short term solution until FORD can figure out your problem. IMO :)

 

Paul     

Ptjones.

I wish jumper battery was a solution. In my case mid size jumper battery was not able to resurrect my CMAX battery to the point when car would start. Only thing that helped was 20A charging for one hour. And I have 2013 SEL made on May 13 2013. (13 is actually my lucky #). 

[ptjones]

Ptjones.

I wish jumper battery was a solution. In my case mid size jumper battery was not able to resurrect my CMAX battery to the point when car would start. Only thing that helped was 20A charging for one hour. And I have 2013 SEL made on May 13 2013. (13 is actually my lucky #). 

You only have had one battery problem? I wonder if the Jumper Battery was to small. :)

 

Paul

[dmk2000]

You only have had one battery problem? I wonder if the Jumper Battery was to small. :)

 

Paul

I wish. 3 problems on 2600 miles new car withing one and a half month.

You see, I could have used electric liftfork battery, if trunk was a size of pickup truck bed  :)

Tomorrow I am dropping car to the dealer and told him he has one week to do what needs to be done.