Sadly, crossing the CMax off my list

[mlsstl]

I am getting a new car later this summer and I've been researching what to buy as a replacement for my 10 year old Volvo. I've driven a dozen different cars and the CMax was one of my top 3 finalists (the others being another Volvo or a Subaru.)

 

I was really taken with the CMax driving experience - quiet, great ride, excellent handling and exceptionally roomy for its size. Drawbacks? The driver's seat was somewhat cramped in the knee and footwell area for me -- not a big deal in city driving but a concern for road trips. The moonroof didn't open, which is a feature I've really enjoyed in my Volvo. The lack of a spare (though not unique to the CMax) -- I don't like the idea of being stranded on a highway in the middle of nowhere waiting for a tow truck. The gas mileage downgrade kerfuffle was never an issue for me. 40ish mpg would have been a nice bonus, but wasn't my main reason for buying a car.

 

However, the one thing that cooked the CMax's goose for me were the numerous reports of repeated dead 12 volt batteries on low mileage cars for the past 2 years with no real explanation or solid fix. I simply do not want to be the lab rat for product development. I want my transportation to be reliable. A likely problem at 100,000 miles is one thing. Mutliple dead batteries, that often can't be jumped, in the first year of ownership is another.

 

So, I'll take a pass on the CMax at this time. I still really like the car. Hopefully the problems will be sorted out when we trade my wife's car in another 2 or 3 years.

 

Finally, I do appreciate this forum. The amount of information available was a great help. I'm familiar enough with internet forums to know that one needs to take things with a grain of salt and discount both the rants of the angry malcontents and the fanboys who defend their preference to the death, but over the past few months it is pretty clear that Ford has one big problem to truly fix before I can commit.

Edited July 10, 2014 by mlsstl

[kostby]

Please do come back and tell us what vehicle you decide to buy!

[mlsstl]

Pretty much decided on a Subaru Outback. It has a good reputation for reliability, I find it a lot of fun to drive and the driver's "space" (more than just the seat) is an excellent fit for me. And, none of its drawbacks are deal breakers for me.

 

I like the new Volvos, but they are pricey, have way more power than I need, and frankly, Volvo has been chasing the BMW/Audi crowd so hard that I think they sort of forgot their old customers.

[kostby]

Outbacks, Legacys, Tribecas, and Toyota Camrys (until 2016) are assembled at the huge Subaru Indiana Automotive plant just up the road from me in Lafayette.

One of my friends is on the final quality control team as the cars are driven off the line. They inspect and OK them them for sale to the marketing arm of Subaru who then ships them to dealers.

Trying to keep up with buyer demand, Subaru keeps increasing assembly-line speed, so reducing the time to build and inspect each vehicle. Doing the same thorough job, ever faster, while maintaining quality is always a challenge.

Edited July 10, 2014 by kostby

[C-MaxSea]

Sorry to hear that mlsstl, but we all do have rationale for our purchases, some even make sense ;).  Good luck with your decision.

 

Like I told our friends last weekend, we would likely be driving a MB 250BlueTec Diesel if we only had one vehicle (and a whole lot more money), or more likely a Subaru (eeeeeeeek).  Having a VW Eurovan as a crossover for work & serious play (mountaineering, camping..... ) allows us to have the C-Max for everything else.  And our C-Max is a dream machine for 'everything else', which will include some camping, skiing etc........

 

Anyway, Subaru models according to Fuel Economy.gov:  get 28.3, 26.0, 29.4, 27.8, 29.3, 28.6, 29.5 MPG's - $1800 - $2200 per year.  Deal breaker for us for a 2014 vehicle.  (Those numbers are embarrassing now, just think in five years - IMO).

 

Call me a fanboy if you wish, we all are to some degree because we buy our vehicles to fit our needs/likes - hopefully.  To the death?  Hardly.  I know you are exaggerating, but I know of no one on this site who fits that description. (Also, keep in mind that the C-Max has 'giddy inspiring' characteristics.  For example, crossing the USA/Canada border a couple days ago - sitting in line, all EV, no gas, no exhaust, no on and off .....silly giddy at times, sorry!!!)

 

Again, best of luck,

nick

(our C-Max reliability 100%, nick's reliability eeeh, not much better than 83 % ;) )

 

(PS Sounds like you still have some time to rethink your 'need to post now' almost decision  :))

Edited July 10, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[mlsstl]

Thanks for the info. Unless one is rich enough to have a Jay Leno garage full of daily driving options, most of us have to settle down to one or two cars. Therefore, anything I buy is going to have a number of compromises. When it comes to choosing an auto, everyone has a different balance point for what combination of looks, comfort, features, up-front & operating costs, reliability and driving action works best for them. Unfortunately, the CMax's battery problem is a bigger uncertainty than I want to take on, and there are no shortage of posts in this forum that indicate the underlying cause is still a mystery to Ford.

 

As for gas mileage, I keep good track of my driving for tax reasons, so it was very little work to look back over the past five years. A C-Max would save me about $40 to $50 a month in gas compared to a Subaru (the 2015 Outbacks get about 10% better mileage than the prior models).   That's not enough to make up for the current battery uncertainty, especially since gas mileage wasn't what attracted me to the CMax in the first place.

[C-MaxSea]

"most of us have to settle down to one or two cars."  Huh, that is exactly what I said too!  One 2001 clunker for work, and our first ever new car, our 2013 C-Max. We have never even come close to a new car before; and you mentioned buying two new cars yourself in 2 or 3 years!  No rich Jay Lenos here.  No thanks for the inference. (Sorry, if I am misreading you)  Yes, it is always tradeoffs/compromises.

 

nick

Edited July 11, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[Adrian_L]

 

So, I'll take a pass on the CMax at this time. I still really like the car. Hopefully the problems will be sorted out when we trade my wife's car in another 2 or 3 years.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Some parting thoughts:

 

The lack of thigh support in the driver's seat was a concern for me but far from a dealbreaker.  I'm 6' tall and haven't noticed any discomfort on long journeys.

 

Many C-max owners buy a mini spare tire and throw it in the trunk or put it under the seat. 

 

Hardly any SEL owners experience battery problems and it seems limited to early SE models.   2 dead batteries in a year in a new car is certainly annoying, and Ford's inability to locate the problem is unacceptable, but having said that it is far from the catastrophe some C-max owners would have you believe.   I'd gently point out that at least three or four times my dad's Volvo 850 refused to turn over.  He towed it to the mechanic.  They changed the oil and it started up again.  No explanation from Volvo was ever given.  Oh---and the seat heaters both burned a hole in the seats.  

 

No such thing as a perfect car.  But if you're the type of person that wants guarantees that nothing will go wrong---buy Toyota.

 

Adrian

Vancouver

Edited July 10, 2014 by Adrian_L

[CassidyB]

Subaru--- Great choice!! Back in September 2012 we narrowed our decision down to the C-Max and Subaru Crosstrek.. The interior of the Crosstrek was a little on the harsh side.... Most people don't buy Subies for the interior.. So we picked comfort and MPG.. Twenty two months into the C-Max... Would I make the same decision? Probably not.. Nothing against the C-Max.. But I miss having all wheel drive. I miss driving just for the enjoyment of it. Now when I drive it's all about MPG. Do I turn the a/c on or just suffer a bit? My original window sticker said 47/47/47. I've learned to hit those numbers.. I miss throwing something like potting soil or fishing gear in the back of the hatch and not think twice about it.. Just some insight from an early C-Max buyer who hasn't experienced any battery issues.

[Adrian_L]

I take back what I said about Ford not identifying the battery problem.  13B12 was the battery fix recall and does not affect newer builds.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Adrian_L

[Adrian_L]

 

Anyway, Subaru models according to Fuel Economy.gov:  get 28.3, 26.0, 29.4, 27.8, 29.3, 28.6, 29.5 MPG's - $1800 - $2200 per year.  Deal breaker for us for a 2014 vehicle.  (Those numbers are embarrassing now, just think in five years - IMO).

 

 

That is embarrassing.  I'm still ashamed to admit I drove an Audi V8 that got 17.5 miles to the gallon.   At one point it cost $110 to fill it up with premium (It's Canada--we drive over the border just to get gas)

 

I love the "moment of truth" when you end a C-max journey at it tells you your mpg.  60.3 today!

Edited July 10, 2014 by Adrian_L

[fbov]

...Hardly any SEL owners experience battery problems and it seems limited to early SE models.  ...

+1 I think that's one reason Ford seems bamboozled...

 

Our SEL has been 100% problem free... nothing but oil changes and the configuration updates until I clipped a granite curb and holed a sidewall. Can't blame Ford for that!

 

Frank

[mlsstl]

Thanks again everyone. And I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings with the "Jay Leno" remark. It was just a lead-up to the fact that the vast majority of us have to compromise when we pick the one car we're going to be driving for the next "X" number of years. I don't think it should surprise anyone that two people can look at the same set of cars and come to different conclusions as to which is best in their circumstances.

[BIG ROCCO]

Subies have a great reputation, but I don't know if I would ever go back to a non-hybrid car.  I always try for a 100% energy recaptured score when braking, but sometimes I have to jam on the brakes to stop for a red light and only 40 or 50% of the energy is recaptured.  I bum out, but then make myself feel better that even 40% is 100% better than the 0% I used to get on my non-hybrid car.  Subaru does have a hybrid Crosstrek...but I think I read that it gets only marginally better gas mileage than the non-hybrid version.

[Smiling Jack]

...........

...........

Many C-max owners buy a mini spare tire and throw it in the trunk or put it under the seat. 

......

......

 

Adrian,

 

Please tell me more about this "under the seat" business.  Are we talking about the front seat or the rear?  How in the world would it fit?

 

I might be inclined to go for that solution if I could get a clear idea of how it would fit.

[mrobinso8]

13B12 "Supposedly" no "Fixed" the problem.  Did not solve wife's C-Max starting problem.  Reliability is more important to most than gas consumption.  I always worry when wife is out and she calls since I automatically assume she is stranded and mad.  Been lucky since so far the car has been in the garage.  She likes the car when it is working well, but after three 12 Volt batteries in  a year and a half of ownership is a bit too much.  Wise choice in the Subaru.

[Adrian_L]

Adrian,

 

Please tell me more about this "under the seat" business.  Are we talking about the front seat or the rear?  How in the world would it fit?

 

I might be inclined to go for that solution if I could get a clear idea of how it would fit.

 

We're not talking full size spare here.  We're talking about those little mini "limited speed" spare tires designed to get you to the garage.

 

They're pretty darn small so I imagine you could (assuming you don't have 2 kids) put one on the floor behind your front seats OR in the trunk.  Search the postings because some forum members have sown covers for these mini tires.

 

OR -  you could be the first C-max owner to mount a spare tire on the hood, Land Rover style??  Ok....maybe not such a great idea.

[mlsstl]

It's not that I'm adverse to getting good mileage from a car, but for me, that would only be a bonus, not a primary criteria. If mileage was the biggest single issue for me, it'd be hard to argue against a Prius. However, my next door neighbor owns one and I find it one of the most lifeless cars I've ever been in. In contrast, the CMax is downright enjoyable to drive.

 

As for the lack of a spare, I know that spare tire kits are available (same issue for the new Volvos, Minis and many other cars), but its annoying that they don't have a proper storage place. You just lose trunk space and have unsecured cargo. Same thing with the driver's "space" -- it isn't really the seat itself, but rather the overall area -- it's just kind of so-so (knee hits console, etc.) Obviously others will feel differently depending on their body type and personal preferences. But as noted earlier, neither of these were the deal-killer for me.

 

But, ultimately, other than those drivers who think of cars only in terms of the cheapest transportation from point A to B, I think most car buyers at some point have a "this is it" reaction when they drive one car versus others they've looked at. And that "it" is not the same everyone.

[Adrian_L]

Sorry, you lost me.  If the spare tire and leg room were not deal-killers then the only thing left is the battery issue (according to your original post)  Since the (late '13 and '14) SEL has no battery issues, then just buy an SEL.

 

Be brave.  A Subaru will not make you smile the way this car does ;)

 

Sorry I have to give you my 2 cents.  Frankly, I'm surprised there's not more passionate defense of our cars here.  Kostby responds with a cheerful "tell us what you're going to buy?!"  Seriously?? 

 

I think there are moments in history where a shift takes place and when the new "paradigm" takes over people think differently.  I have had my C-max for 4 months and frankly, it is hybrid or all-electric from now on.  And not just because of the price of gas or planet-love or anything like that.  I just love arriving at work (30 min drive) and being told I used a pint of gas to get there.  A pint!!    And then there is the quality of the ride--the silence at red lights.  I could go on.  Maybe you have to own and drive a C-max to understand what I'm feeling.  If someone offered me a Subaru and a $5000 check for my C-max I wouldn't take it.  27 mpg?  Please.

 

Speaking of crappy fuel economy, why was I driving a ridiculous V8 Audi with 335 horses I never needed?  When fuel injection replaced carburettors, everyone wondered why carburettors hung around for so long.  Ditto with records and CDs.  When something is better, the inadequacies of the original comes into sharp focus.  Who would want to listen to crackly old records when you can listen to pure digital sound?   Gas vs Hybrid electric?  There won't be any gas-only cars in 20 years. 

Edited July 10, 2014 by Adrian_L

[mlsstl]

Sorry I lost you. The battery survey on this site still shows 20% of those affected are SEL owners, and that jumps to 34% if you count the Energi model which has a SEL trim level. I don't know what percentage of SEs were sold vs SELs and Energis, but the survey on this web site shows than none of the cars are risk-free.

 

Think of the battery issue as the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

I've spent quite a bit of time test driving the Subaru and find it a great (but different) drive. (And the same thing with the Volvo I was considering -- once again a great drive, but different.)

 

My intent in starting this thread wasn't meant to change anyone's mind or bash the car. I was just letting people know what happened in my case.  Hopefully Ford will figure things out and the CMax will have a great run for many years as a hybrid that is actually fun to drive.

 

PS, as a follow-up to your edit, I seriously doubt I'll be driving in 20 years....  ;-)

Edited July 10, 2014 by mlsstl

[ptjones]

You will hate yourself when gas hits $5 a gallon and you get stuck in traffic and seeing all those $ going out the tale pipe when you could have been EVing for miles for nothing. Don't mind the CMAX person with a grin on their face being stuck in traffic knowing their mileage is getting better while everyone's else is getting worse. I would call that thinking ahead, not behind. Good Luck with your decision. :) 

 

Paul

[Jus-A-CMax]

Hee...add me to the fanboy, chalked up another 800 mile tank this evening and zero battery problems. Ok, so I got clonked by the tailgate as I changed my golf shoes...me bad. And I own a SEL built October 2012.

 

Op, thanks for posting your thoughts, its much appreciated. You have to call it as you see it and I love the Subbies, but the more gruntier kind, Sti baby :rockon:  but I'll take a GTR over that - if it came to a choice. Hypermiling the CMax is so much fun especially when I drive past the numerous gas stations here full of big fat SUVs at $4.25 a gallon gas, but occassionally I drive my - umh - my wife's Jaguar Vanden Plas, just to feel the smooth limousine and gentle grunt of her V8 ;) ..read it anyway u like :dance:

 

The way I see this, I save on gas and spend it on the beers while I golf. Cheers and again, appreciate your thoughts and sharing them with this forum.

 

Jus another CMax Fan Boy :drool:

Edited July 11, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[Adrian_L]

Ditto. Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. 

 

If any SEL owners with a build date of say Oct '13 and later have any dead battery issues, I sure would like to hear about it.

[salsaguy]

Were you looking at the SE or SEL version ?as the SEs have had more issues (most) with the dead battery problem

 

I am getting a new car later this summer and I've been researching what to buy as a replacement for my 10 year old Volvo. I've driven a dozen different cars and the CMax was one of my top 3 finalists (the others being another Volvo or a Subaru.)

 

I was really taken with the CMax driving experience - quiet, great ride, excellent handling and exceptionally roomy for its size. Drawbacks? The driver's seat was somewhat cramped in the knee and footwell area for me -- not a big deal in city driving but a concern for road trips. The moonroof didn't open, which is a feature I've really enjoyed in my Volvo. The lack of a spare (though not unique to the CMax) -- I don't like the idea of being stranded on a highway in the middle of nowhere waiting for a tow truck. The gas mileage downgrade kerfuffle was never an issue for me. 40ish mpg would have been a nice bonus, but wasn't my main reason for buying a car.

 

However, the one thing that cooked the CMax's goose for me were the numerous reports of repeated dead 12 volt batteries on low mileage cars for the past 2 years with no real explanation or solid fix. I simply do not want to be the lab rat for product development. I want my transportation to be reliable. A likely problem at 100,000 miles is one thing. Mutliple dead batteries, that often can't be jumped, in the first year of ownership is another.

 

So, I'll take a pass on the CMax at this time. I still really like the car. Hopefully the problems will be sorted out when we trade my wife's car in another 2 or 3 years.

 

Finally, I do appreciate this forum. The amount of information available was a great help. I'm familiar enough with internet forums to know that one needs to take things with a grain of salt and discount both the rants of the angry malcontents and the fanboys who defend their preference to the death, but over the past few months it is pretty clear that Ford has one big problem to truly fix before I can commit.

[salsaguy]

Dont forget the folks posting about battery issues here on these threads are only a very small sample set of all folks who own CMaxes. Yes it seems the dead battery problem is the biggest issue out of all issues so far on this car, but dont forget that most people talk about the BAD stuff on the forums and not the good stuff. There are a LOT of CMax owners who are NOT on these forums (let alone even know what a forum is ) and cant post all the good/non-issues they have had with thei CMaxes so know that forums will ALWAY have more users posting with issues than owners who DONT have issues.

But yes you have to have your checklist with your top 10 things you MUST have on your new car and the things you WANT to have and if the car doesnt match the majority of those things or makes you mad about / irritates you about something then that will be your deal breaker, which may be a NON issue for another consumer.

Best luck whatever you do

its good to know the CMax was in your top 3 choices of all the hundreds of cars possible out there

Not a bad thing