kostby Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 "Allowing single-occupant low-emission cars in California to use high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes on congested highways exacerbates the congestion and causes up to about $4,500 per car in adverse social costs annually, including increased commute times and carbon dioxide emissions, according to a new study in the American Economic Journal: Economic Policy."..."The California law enabling single-occupant access to the HOV lanes was meant to stimulate sales for fuel-efficient, ultra low-emission vehicles, with the goals of reducing dependence on foreign oil and saving money at the gasoline pump. Between August 2005 and June 2011, California law allowed owners of hybrid vehicles achieving at least 45 mpg (5.2 l/100 km) to purchase a Clean Air Vehicle Sticker for $8, allowing them to drive on carpool lanes regardless of the number of occupants in the car. However, two-thirds of the sticker registrants had hybrid cars already on the road, the authors noted; in other words, the stimulus effect was lower than expected. While the original clean air sticker policy expired in 2011, a new HOV-exception program with 40,000 stickers for electric, hydrogen fuel cell, and plug-in hybrid vehicles started in 2012."..."With the addition of solo-driver hybrids on already congested highways, HOV lane traffic climbs above 30% beyond socially optimal levels, according to the research. Thus, carpooler congestion costs substantially outweigh the green benefits of hybrids, the researchers concluded." Full article: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/09/20140930-hov.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelleytoons Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 This is one of those cases where, if you need HOV lanes, perhaps you ought to rethink your entire city workflow (like making telecommuting *mandatory* for 80% of any office workforce). Or, heck, just shut down the $#$!! freeways. (Some day in the near future we will wonder why in hell we ever thought it a good idea to move millions of folks every single work day of the week miles away from where they live just in order to answer the telephone and attend meetings). LizM, drdiesel1 and Jus-A-CMax 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMax Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Makes sense that like most/all other govt programs, the actual effect is completely unlike the desired effect -- go figure.Simply tint your windows and jump in the diamond lane like most other drivers I see around here. I know I've done the same thing many times, as it's ridiculous seeing nobody in that lane while everyone else sits in bumper to bumper traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sounds like the cash for clunkers program, dismal failure...but I digress, I completely missed these ugly stickers on the car but when I think about it, I get zero gains from this masterful, well planned Govt scheme. I am actually better off driving surface streets where there are less cars & more MPGs to be had. Jus my 2c EVing... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaDadMiami Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 The solution is properly integrated public transportation plus adequate road planning and construction. We have those same stupid HOV only lanes here, too. Yes, I qualify to drive them, but it is not fair, and all of it will need to be re-done as virtually everyone moves to fuel efficient vehicles. These ideas only put off the day that we will have to deal with these issues, and the delay increases the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Agree with SDM. I believe the original intent of HOV lanes was to reduce the volume of vehicles on the road thus mitigating congestion and reducing emissions. Then, lawmakers thought they could stimulate EV sales by allowing EV in HOV lanes regardless of number of occupants and further reduce emissions. Apparently, based on the study this is not the case now. Evidently, people buy an EV, stop car pooling, and still have access to the HOV lanes. IMO, the simple (but likely unpopular) immediate "patch" would be for lawmakers to eliminate the exception of allowing single occupant EV use of the HOV lanes. Increase tax credits or something similar if one wants to stimulate EV sales but giving special driving preferences (HOV access, special parking and so forth) to mitigate "social" costs is shortsighted to the congestion and emissions issues. IMO, most lawmakers make decisions that benefit them politically (hence short term "patches" vs long term capital intensive "fixes"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 If you wanted to cut down on emissions you wouldn't allow EV in HOV lanes at all. It would be for ICE vehicles only figuring they would be less polluting if they weren't stopping and EV get better MPG's in stop and go traffic. LOL :drop: :lol: :lol2: :shift: Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 And the hits just keep on coming from those free-range, cute, cuddly, environmentally-friendly California legislators, now that Governor Brown signed the statewide ban on plastic bags into law: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/09/30/6748372/california-plastic-bag-ban-signed.html Wonder what unintended consequences will result from THIS law??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wnuk Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 And the hits just keep on coming from those free-range, cute, cuddly, environmentally-friendly California legislators, now that Governor Brown signed the statewide ban on plastic bags into law: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/09/30/6748372/california-plastic-bag-ban-signed.html Wonder what unintended consequences will result from THIS law???Well now how are all the dog walkers supposed to pick up their pets excrement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelleytoons Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well, it's pretty simple. Folks will now have to pay money to BUY plastic bags for this purpose rather than saving on the use of these. We often get plastic bags at the grocery store for cat litter cleanup for this very reason (although we bring our own bags for our weekly shopping). This is, in essence, a way to legislate recycling (and we ALL know how successful trying to legislate morality is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 And the hits just keep on coming from those free-range, cute, cuddly, environmentally-friendly California legislators, now that Governor Brown signed the statewide ban on plastic bags into law: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/09/30/6748372/california-plastic-bag-ban-signed.html Wonder what unintended consequences will result from THIS law??? ...shopping crap rolling all over the floor inside Maxine :swear: ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 ...shopping crap rolling all over the floor inside Maxine :swear:With plastic perhaps... paper bags do one thing no plastic bag can - stand up. Plastic, on the other hand, allows me to carry as much as I can carry, once I corral everything back into bags! Frank ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 With plastic perhaps... paper bags do one thing no plastic bag can - stand up. Plastic, on the other hand, allows me to carry as much as I can carry, once I corral everything back into bags! Frank ..plus paper bags make good bags to throw the chicken pieces in to mix with the flour and spice and do Fried Chicken.....yum. Plastic bags suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kostby Posted October 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Apparently California legislators either don't read the research or simply don't believe the facts... http://www.hybridcars.com/california-wants-more-people-driving-electric-vehicles/ (LA Times article cited: http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-brown-electric-cars-20140922-story.html) http://www.hybridcars.com/hov-access-is-key-for-california-plug-in-car-purchases/ Edited October 2, 2014 by kostby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus-A-CMax Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 What scares me is the unintended consequences of greening. Let me put it this succinctly - do you want to give the government all data on where you have been in your? That may come into play as everyone switching from gas to electric, the revenues from the gas would drop and the government has no choice but to mandate a GPS tracker to calculate the miles in your EV car and tax its use. Some states may be considering this already... Jus Gloomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZ Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Giving gov't. data on where we've been in our cars is already here, and anyone with a cellphone has been doing same for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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