High Transmission Temperature

[ptjones]

Here's my take on the conversion (although I may be wrong). :)  Shouldn't the 5th digit of the RXF be "8" to correspond to a 10 divisor. the 5th digit of zero (current RXF) means no divisor.

 

Should't the 2nd 4 digits in the MTH be 0008 to correspond to the 8 in the divisor of the formula? Shouldn't the last 4 digits of the MTH field be 0140 to correspond to the +320 in the formula.  

 

So, MTH should be 000900080140 

 

Paul, you might want to try the above

Ken, your XGange Code also works and is the one I'm currently using.  Tom_NC_1 also came up with this Code from NRG forum. Thanks Guys. :)

 

Paul

[jdbob]

Displaying TFT with a digit to the right of the decimal point is, well, pointless. It's just a thermistor, might be accurate to within 5 degrees if you are lucky.

[BIG ROCCO]

Your experience mirrors mine, BIG ROCCO; also at about the same mileage, though I'm in Michigan.  What WAS dirty was the passenger compartment air filter.

 

OK thanks - I have not checked that yet - I guess I better put that on the list.  Thank you again.

[ptjones]

Displaying TFT with a digit to the right of the decimal point is, well, pointless. It's just a thermistor, might be accurate to within 5 degrees if you are lucky.

You are right, but it doesn't take anymore time or space to do it. Thanks for the help again.  Now I hope I can figure out the story on the Trans Cooler.  Stay tuned for updates. :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

Paul

Have you got a thermocouple laying around the shop that you can tape to the lines to get an independent temperature reading? For that matter, how about some temperature tape? We use stuff that turns in the 400F range, and a qhich Google search yields this link.

http://www.amazon.com/Generic-138-1208-Dishwasher-Temperature-Thermolabel/dp/B00O19C3XS

 

After all, the real question is if the tranny's too hot to last...

 

Have fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

Paul

Have you got a thermocouple laying around the shop that you can tape to the lines to get an independent temperature reading? For that matter, how about some temperature tape? We use stuff that turns in the 400F range, and a qhich Google search yields this link.

http://www.amazon.com/Generic-138-1208-Dishwasher-Temperature-Thermolabel/dp/B00O19C3XS

 

After all, the real question is if the tranny's too hot to last...

 

Have fun,

Frank

This is True and I will see how hot it gets on my trip, but I do have a Digital IR Laser Thermometer to compare temps too. :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

I was thinking on the cheap... but then, IR pyrometers are cheap these days, and you really don't want to touch a fine optic!

Frank

[ptjones]

Paul

Edited March 16, 2015 by ptjones

[ptjones]

I made trip down to St Mary's,GA, little over 300mi. With a lunch stop in the middle. With OT from 47-54*F for the first half of the trip with Grill Covers on my CMAX , Max WT 231*F, TFT 189*F, Input cooler line 115*F and output line 95*F.
Second half of trip I took lower Grill Cover off, OT 57-70*F, Max WT 215*F and TFT 186*F .

It looks like I'm running 20-40*F hotter than other members, but not necessarily dangerously hot (220*F)

 

Coming back I opened up three  1.6" holes in lower  and removed upper Grill Cover to lower WT from 220-231*F to 215-225*F.  This also lowered TFT from 189*F to 185*F with OT 80*F.   Last nite temps were in the 60-50*F coming home and TFT dropped to 175*F.  The highest input Trans Cooler Line temps was 119*F, don't know what to make of it. :)

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

I finally got around to testing transmission temperatures under these conditions:

 

Relatively flat road with very slight rolling terrain.

No grille covers.

ICE at operating temperature

Ambient Temp = 90 F

AC on at 74 set point

30 Mile Round trip

 - 20 miles at 67-72 mph with one exit to turn around

 - 10 miles at 25 - 55 mph with several stops each direction

 

Temperature Range:

140 F < TFT < 148 F

160 F < Motor Coil Temp < 175 F

150 F < Generator Coil Temp < 165 F

 

Motor coil temps were highest at the end of regenerative braking. When high speed cruising, temperatures varied little and were about in the middle of the ranges above.

 

Paul, have you checked the motor and generator coil temps?  You want those to run cool to maximize efficiency.  Also, that should give you a good check on whether the TFT sensor is "bad".

[ptjones]

Plus 3 Golfer  "Paul, have you checked the motor and generator coil temps?  You want those to run cool to maximize efficiency.  Also, that should give you a good check on whether the TFT sensor is "bad"."

 

I'm using a IR Digital Thermometer on Transmission and I'm coming up with close to the same temps. I could add motor and generator coil temps to my ScanGauge to see what they are running.  It looks like to me that the Trans Cooler Lines have a restriction and very little fluid is moving through the lines. This would explain why the big difference between TFT and Trans Cooler intake line temp.  I just need to compare other members cooler line temps to see if they are higher than mine. :)

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

So, you're getting virtually the same temp reading with IR thermometer on the transmission case as the TFT and you are measuring cooler line temps with the IR also?  

 

If flow is being restricted, maybe the internal fluid pump filter is restricting flow or there's a defective pump / impeller spinning on the shaft. I would assume the impeller is of a high temperature "plastic".  I recall VW / Audi having problems with "plastic" impellers a good many years ago with higher coolant temps.  A quick search indicates the Audi pumps now use a composite "PPS" material which is good to 400 F.  I hope Ford didn't go cheap on their HF35 transmission. 

 

Also, did we find out what changes were made to the HF35 as a result of the TSB regarding HEV C-Max Taxi operating conditions and bearing noise?  I think some thought that the HEV Taxi transmissions might be overheating since ICE needs to run to turn the fluid pump and since the TSB did not include the Energi models with external fluid pumps.  Perhaps the internal fluid pumps were failing causing higher TFT, higher bearing temps, fluid breakdown and bearing noise.

[ptjones]

Plus 3 Golfer  "So, you're getting virtually the same temp reading with IR thermometer on the transmission case as the TFT and you are measuring cooler line temps with the IR also? "

This is true, I'm using IR Thermometer on both and this morning TFT 74.5, WT 76*F and IT 78*F. 

 

Until I can get  Trans Cooler Line temps from other CMAX's, I don't know what to tell FORD to look for.  At this point I would think they would say temps are within acceptable limits. I could drain out the Trans and see if I see anything in the fluid.  If I did see something I could bring it to FORD's attention and go from there. If not then I would put new fluid in and just keep on monitoring the TFT. ;)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Made a trip yesterday 70mi, each way with OT 70*F and WT up to 225*F.  I had a new high TFT of 193*F and cooling lines were only 108 and 113*F with IR Digital Thermometer.  Today I drove 16mi./25min. with WT 206-213*F. The TFT was 152*F and Cooler lines were 96*F and 92*F.

I think my next step is to contact a Electric FORD Dealer(preferably one that will work with me) to figure out what is causing the High Temp Problem. :) 

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I finally got around to testing transmission temperatures under these conditions:

 

Relatively flat road with very slight rolling terrain.

No grille covers.

ICE at operating temperature

Ambient Temp = 90 F

AC on at 74 set point

30 Mile Round trip

 - 20 miles at 67-72 mph with one exit to turn around

 - 10 miles at 25 - 55 mph with several stops each direction

 

Temperature Range:

140 F < TFT < 148 F

160 F < Motor Coil Temp < 175 F

150 F < Generator Coil Temp < 165 F

 

Motor coil temps were highest at the end of regenerative braking. When high speed cruising, temperatures varied little and were about in the middle of the ranges above.

 

Paul, have you checked the motor and generator coil temps?  You want those to run cool to maximize efficiency.  Also, that should give you a good check on whether the TFT sensor is "bad".

I was wondering if you had the ScanGaugeII XGauge Codes for Motor Elect. Coolant Temp.,Generator Inverter temp. and Motor Inverter temp.?  I thought the NRG guys had them but they don't work.  Thanks :) 

 

Paul 

[plus 3 golfer]

No, I do not have the Scangauge codes.  As I linked to before, here's the link for the Torque APP PIDs.  I think the PIDs shown as generator inverter temp and motor inverter temp are the coil temps. I have Torque App on my smartphone but have yet to enter all the PIDs shown in the link.   One should be able to convert the torque PID data to scangauge data.  If you have access to an IOS device, Android device, or Windows laptop and an ELM327,  you could load FORScan (free) or pay a nominal amount for Torque (assuming inverter temps are the coil temps) and get the temp data.  

 

You could experminent with various codes for the Scangauge based on knowing the TFT Scangauge PID data and what the codes mean, examples (found on internet) of converting Scangauge PIDs to Torque PID data and then reverse engineering the Torque PIDs in the link above to Scangauge :).

[Bill-N]

If you have access to an IOS device, Android device, or Windows laptop and an ELM327,  you could load FORScan (free) or pay a nominal amount for Torque (assuming inverter temps are the coil temps) and get the temp data.  

 

 

 

FYI, per their web site, FORScan for Android is still in development.

[plus 3 golfer]

FYI, per their web site, FORScan for Android is still in development.

Correct.  

 

I wasn't clear that Torque App applies to an Android device and FORscan applies to an IOS or Windows device.

[Bill-N]

Correct.  

 

I wasn't clear that Torque App applies to an Android device and FORscan applies to an IOS or Windows device.

 

And for those that may want to play around with it, Torque Lite is free.  I haven't used the Pro version, so I can't comment on the differences; check the Torque web site.

[ptjones]

Talked to my FORD SM yesterday and he said they spent a couple of hours Testing my CMAX and Trans Temps were fine.  I told him that I had a new high temp of 193*F with only 4*F difference in temp between input cooler line and output line.  He said as long as the Trans was working there was nothing he can do.  He doesn't have faith in any info coming out people on forums.  I'm sure there is a problem, but it's going to take trans. drive  ability problems before they are going to do anything about it. ;) 

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Last week I went to NY and back(2Kmi) and hit new high TFT of 199*F.  This last Thursday we left for AZ and stopped in OK for gas.  When I left the gas station to go back on I-40 I heard a noise I hadn't heard before and assumed it was the trans. I stopped in Albequerque at Rich Ford in Alberquerque, NM and they were kind enough to put it up on the rack and sure enough the trans is making noise. I desided to go another 400miles to AZ and see how it goes. I made it , but the Trans is noisier. I'm renting a Jetta to travel around AZ and will try driving MADMAX back to Georgia.

 

Here is the time line:

Started monitoring TFT(Trans Fluid Temp) at 90Kmi and noticed high temp problem.

97.2Kmi. first stated to hear trans noise.

97.6Kmi. Had noise verified by Rich FORD in Alberquerque, NM

98Kmi. noise is louder

Going to try to drive back to GA(1700mi) and have my dealer work on it there.

 

does anyone have ideas on what to do? ;)

 

Paul

[62Lincoln]

does anyone have ideas on what to do? ;)

 

Paul

 

Paul, it's a stab in the dark, but do you think it might be helpful to change out the transaxle fluid? Perhaps its properties are caput, and a jolt of fresh fluid might be enough to nurse it home?

[ptjones]

Paul, it's a stab in the dark, but do you think it might be helpful to change out the transaxle fluid? Perhaps its properties are caput, and a jolt of fresh fluid might be enough to nurse it home?

The mechanic said he replace one in a FFH and it sounds like there is play in the planetary gears.

 

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Made a 15mi test drive today before starting trip back to GA tomorrow. At slow speeds the Trans is pretty noisy, at FWY speeds not so much. I'm hoping to go 350mi to Albuquerque. Will stop check Trans noise and decide whether to leave at Rich FORD or proceed on.

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

Made a 15mi test drive today before starting trip back to GA tomorrow. At slow speeds the Trans is pretty noisy, at FWY speeds not so much. I'm hoping to go 350mi to Albuquerque. Will stop check Trans noise and decide whether to leave at Rich FORD or proceed on.

 

Paul

Rich Ford, I know the place; I used to drive by there all the time.

 

I think there is a TSB on the transmission, have you looked into that?