Considering buying C-Max in Texas

[ptjones]

I try to toe 68MPH on the freeway. Not fast, but still hanging in the right two lanes. If you drive 75/80, the fuel economy drops fast - it has a ridiculously high drag coefficient and a large cross-section size, and with drag increasing with cube of speed, it becomes a factor fast. I probably average 42MPG at 68MPH, but my fuel economy dropped to 34MPG at 78MPH. At that point, you do better in a Camry. (Though I may have had a headwind that trip).

 

My gauge also reads optimistic, generally about 4%. I wonder how much of that is evaporative gasses being recirculated to the engine, burned without being injected / counted? I do report the optimistic mileage on Fuelly. 

You don't use actual gallons on Fuelly?  I also use actual mileage determined from comparing GPS to Odometer mileage, it's off by 2.2% to the better in my case.  I'm sure I get over 40mpg at 80mph with aeromods, 34mpg OUCH! That's depressing. :drop: :) 

 

Paul

[mlsstl]

To Noah, headwinds can be a big issue on the highway. Took a trip north, to Minneapolis from St. Louis, on Thursday in our Subaru Outback. The first leg was pleasant weather around 70 and got 31 mpg. On refueling in Waterloo, IA, we immediately passed through a front coming through and had a 22 mph headwind per the US Weather Service. 70 mph plus a 22 mph wind dropped our indicated mileage down to 24.8. Ouch.

 

What was interesting was, when drafting behind a semi, one could watch the instantaneous figure increase 5 or 6 mpg. However, the second you pulled into the passing lane to go around, it dropped quickly.

 

Aerodynamics are a big issue for highway driving.  

[SPL Tech]

I would be very, very wary buying from a rental agency. Take the vehicle to a mechanic and have them look it over. 

 

My car's tires had never been rotated, so I ended up need 4 new tires. I also have a sinking suspicion that when I get my engine oil and engine air filters swapped out, I'm not going to like what I see. 

My Cmax was used as a rental and it's fine. Even wear on the tires, came with fresh change of oil, and best of all, I probably got a better deal on it than almost anyone on this site. I only paid $6,500 with my trade in, and it's a fully decked out SEL with all options and with 26k miles. The type of people who rent hybrids probably arnt exactly the type who are going to drag race them or take them off road. I will say though that they never performed the 20k cabin air filter maintenance, although that's not really that important anyway.

[SPL Tech]

Also, comparing the highway FE of a full size hatchback to a compact sedan is beyond ridiculous. That's like complaining that your semi truck gets worse fuel economy than your F-350. Apples to apples gentlemen...

Edited April 12, 2015 by SPL Tech

[mlsstl]

Wasn't trying to compare my Outback to anything. Just thought it made a very good example of the impact of any car's aerodynamics on highway driving, especially into strong headwinds. This particular trip provided one of the clearest illustrations I've seen, since the weather changed dramatically right after finishing the first leg of the trip and filling the tank.

 

The C-Max also suffers in highway driving with poor aerodynamics and the loss of brake regen for long stretches, but that shouldn't surprise anyone around here.

[Adrian_L]

Poor aerodynamics?  The C-max has a drag coefficient of .30.  That's better than an Aston Martin DB9 and a Lamborghini Diablo. 

Perhaps "not quite so great aerodynamics as a Prius" might have been more accurate?

 

My main criticism of the C-max is weight--twice as heavy as a VW Beetle (orig.) but that's a debate for another day and could be said of most modern cars. 

[mlsstl]

I really didn't want to start a fuss with anyone, but one of Ford's original mistakes with the C-Max was when they claimed 47 mpgs for city & highway. One of the issues is they "borrowed" the figures from the Fusion Hybrid which apparently has a better shape for highway driving. Failing to take that into account was an issue in mpg revision number 1.

 

The physics are pretty simple. It is harder to make a boxy MPV such as the C-Max as efficient at higher highway speeds as it is in the city. The same is true of SUVs. That was only point I was trying to illustrate.

Edited April 13, 2015 by mlsstl

[stevedebi]

Poor aerodynamics?  The C-max has a drag coefficient of .30.  That's better than an Aston Martin DB9 and a Lamborghini Diablo. 

 

Perhaps "not quite so great aerodynamics as a Prius" might have been more accurate?

 

My main criticism of the C-max is weight--twice as heavy as a VW Beetle (orig.) but that's a debate for another day and could be said of most modern cars. 

It is cD PLUS cross section. A sports car has a much smaller cross section.

 

I was also surprised to find that my C-Max Energi was the exact same weight as my Escape Hybrid. The C-Max gets good mileage for the size and weight. The Prius is a lot lighter.

[Automate]

It is cD PLUS cross section.

 

Correct, The C-Max is almost 6 inches taller than the Fusion Hybrid, this adds to the cross sectional area.  There is a price to be paid for the higher seat position that some people like about the C-Max

Edited April 14, 2015 by Automate

[ptjones]

I like the extra room and with my aeromods I got 52mpg going up to Acworth and back(I-85,I-285 and I-75) temps 65*F yesterday.  If FORD had started out with 47City/42HWY they would have been OK.  But releasing the car in Oct. with temps going down killed the MPG's and made FORD look Bad.  You would thing that the tech's would have know the car looses MPG's when temps go down. If they had released it in late Spring I don't think there would have been much fuss about it. :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I like the extra room and with my aeromods I got 52mpg going up to Acworth and back(I-85,I-285 and I-75) temps 65*F yesterday.  If FORD had started out with 47City/42HWY they would have been OK.  But releasing the car in Oct. with temps going down killed the MPG's and made FORD look Bad.  You would thing that the tech's would have know the car looses MPG's when temps go down. If they had released it in late Spring I don't think there would have been much fuss about it. :)

 

Paul

I consistently get around 40, but I think their 37 is more likely at normal freeway speeds of 70 or 75. At 55-60 it would return 42.

[ptjones]

But the EPA Test is around 60mph and they should be able to get 47mpg going that fast. ;)

 

Paul

[C-MaxSea]

We consistently get better than 45 mpg Spring, Summer & Fall (40-80 temps generaly).  70% freeway, 58-60mph in 60 mph zones and 65-68mph in 70 mph zones.  It's a great freeway car for us in Seattle.  Gladly take the cross sectional hit, for the great cabin space - pass the poupon.  Nick

Edited April 13, 2015 by C-MaxSea

[mlsstl]

But the EPA Test is around 60mph and they should be able to get 47mpg going that fast. ;)

 

The current EPA test (updated back in 2007 or 08 or so) includes speeds up to 80 mph, though that doesn't last long. So the "average" figure is just that, and includes a variety of speeds and a couple of stops, too. Note that their "average" speed even for the high speed segment is only 48 mph.

 

Full details and a chart of the test cycles can be found at: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml -- click on the tabs to review the various segments.

[stevedebi]

We consistently get better than 45 mpg Spring, Summer & Fall (40-80 temps generaly).  70% freeway, 58-60mph in 60 mph zones and 65-68mph in 70 mph zones.  It's a great freeway car for us in Seattle.  Gladly take the cross sectional hit, for the great cabin space - pass the poupon.  Nick

I'm speaking of pure freeway, and from my experience. I have the Energi, but on the freeway the two vehicles perform identically (except that the Energi is 300 lbs heavier, which would account for some MPG).

 

Any in-town driving is going to up the mileage significantly.

[plus 3 golfer]

The current EPA test (updated back in 2007 or 08 or so) includes speeds up to 80 mph, though that doesn't last long. So the "average" figure is just that, and includes a variety of speeds and a couple of stops, too. Note that their "average" speed even for the high speed segment is only 48 mph.

 

Full details and a chart of the test cycles can be found at: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml -- click on the tabs to review the various segments.

If you look at how the City and HWY EPA numbers are computed, only the high speed portion of the US06 is used in the calculation of the HWY EPA numbers.  US06 also includes an aggressive City test portion used in the City calculations which are the first and last parts of US06,.  IIRC, the average speed of the Highway portion of US06 is around 62/63 mph (including starting from zero mph and ending at zero mph.  You can download the US06 test schedule (one second intervals) and average the highway portion. 

 

There are documents that in detail describe each test schedule and how data from the tests are used in determining the City and Hwy EPA numbers.  The raw numbers also include adjustment factors for real world conditions (like pavement, wind, use of AC and so forth) to come up with an "average" EPA FE rating to allow the consumer to compare FE among all vehicles on the "same" basis.  So, trying to relate the raw dyno EPA test schedule numbers along with average speed of the tests as a proxy for what one might see in the real world is a fruitless exercise unless one has the capability to adjust real world FE to account for external influences and follow the test schedules precisely.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Plus 3 Golfer

[raadsel]

I have not been in a hurry to buy a car, so I'm still waiting for the right car/deal. Currently, I have what seems to be a really good offer on a Fusion Hybrid, basically the offer is $20,000 + tax and title for a nicely equipped 2014 Fusion SE (luxury and driver assist packages) with 35,000ish miles. It is a rental, but is being sold as a CPO, so will have the 100,000 mile warranty. I like the "extras" on this Fusion that the C-Max does not have, though am sure I will miss the storage room the C-Max has.

 

For those here, would you "settle" for a Fusion at that price or would you want the C-Max (realizing members here are biased toward the C-Max)?

Edited May 5, 2015 by raadsel

[kostby]

Seems like a 'deal', if the car has no accident damage.

 

Here's a similar prior rental vehicle (perhaps the same one?) located near Austin, Texas for comparison:

 

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePage_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c24041&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=c24041&zip=77004&distance=MILES_150&searchChanged=true&trimNames=Hybrid+SE&trimNames=Hybrid+SE&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=109648474

 

And here is that vehicle's Monroney sticker ("Special Order" usually means it was a fleet or rental purchase):

 

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=3FA6P0LU5ER308279

 

More details would be available on a full Carfax or Autocheck report, and the dealer should be willing to provide that to you at no charge to you.

 

Insist on seeing the Carfax or Autocheck report to be certain there is no reported accident damage. That is not an absolute guarantee that the car was NEVER involved in any minor accident, because not all states uniformly report all accidents.

 

Update: The same dealer (Leif Johnson Ford in Austin TX) has 4 2014 used Fusion Hybrids, 2 are Certified Pre-Owned:

http://www.leifjohnsonford.com/search/Used+Ford+Fusion+2014%20SE%20Hybrid+tmMT

 

The second CPO Fusion Hybrid listed is actually Ice Storm color (not Deep Blue) and has a moonroof.

 

Full Autocheck reports are available for free viewing on the dealer's website.

Edited May 5, 2015 by kostby

[markd]

What extra's would a fusion se have that C-max sel wouldn't?

Edited May 5, 2015 by markd

[raadsel]

What extra's would a fusion se have that C-max sel wouldn't?

 

BLIS and Lane Assist, power passenger seat, a moonroof that opens (but not panoramic), and other minor things. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by raadsel

[raadsel]

 

Seems like a 'deal', if the car has no accident damage.

 

Here's a similar prior rental vehicle (perhaps the same one?) located near Austin, Texas for comparison:

 

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePage_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c24041&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=c24041&zip=77004&distance=MILES_150&searchChanged=true&trimNames=Hybrid+SE&trimNames=Hybrid+SE&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=109648474

 

And here is that vehicle's Monroney sticker ("Special Order" usually means it was a fleet or rental purchase):

 

http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=3FA6P0LU5ER308279

 

More details would be available on a full Carfax or Autocheck report, and the dealer should be willing to provide that to you at no charge to you.

 

Insist on seeing the Carfax or Autocheck report to be certain there is no reported accident damage. That is not an absolute guarantee that the car was NEVER involved in any minor accident, because not all states uniformly report all accidents.

 

Update: The same dealer (Leif Johnson Ford in Austin TX) has 4 2014 used Fusion Hybrids, 2 are Certified Pre-Owned:

http://www.leifjohnsonford.com/search/Used+Ford+Fusion+2014%20SE%20Hybrid+tmMT

 

The second CPO Fusion Hybrid listed is actually Ice Storm color (not Deep Blue) and has a moonroof.

 

Full Autocheck reports are available for free viewing on the dealer's website.

 

 

To be clear, I have looked at the Carfax and looked at the car, it appears to have no accident damage, is in good condition, and the Carfax indicates no issues besides being a rental. I've looked at the Leif Johnson site and have some interest in their 2014 C-Max (which seems to be a good price) but the deal isn't quite where I'd like it. The Fusion dealer is relatively close and seem willing to negotiate more -- and 20,000, from what I can see, is a great deal.

Edited May 5, 2015 by raadsel

[kostby]

It's always nice to have a good idea of the price of comparable vehicles, and an alternate car or two in mind, just in case 'the great deal' turns out to be far less great than it appeared when it comes time to sign the papers with the 'out-the-door' price at the dealership.

 

Several years ago, I had already filled out the dealer's name on the check for a cash purchase of a used GM vehicle, and I was ready to fill in the amount and sign it when the dealer's scummy Finance & Insurance guy pulled a fast one and had loaded up the final bill with totally profit-generating 'extras' that added over $1,000 to what I THOUGHT was the NEGOTIATED out-the-door price offer signed by the Sales Manager.

 

I walked out with my family and they chased us to my car. The sales manager even called the next day to apologize and take off the 'extras' and lower the price of the car by another $1,000. I told him that if I crawled around in the dirt with snakes, that made me a snake too, and I just didn't deal with snakes. Found a much better deal through ebay the very next week.

[stevedebi]

What extra's would a fusion se have that C-max sel wouldn't?

A ton of options are available, including air conditioned seats, memory seats, BLIS and adaptive cruise control. Of course, a Fusion Energi Titanium also can end up costing almost 45K with all those options, whereas the maximum for a C-Max Energi is around 36K.

[markd]

I didn't know that, feeling dumb, thanks guys.

[Podivin]

For ME it came down to carrying capacity.

For looks and driving I would prefer a Fusion, but my wife and I haul our bikes inside the car, and the Fusion just isn't designed for that.