Battery Drain and Frequency of Incidents

[fcforce]

I have a 2013 C-Max Hybrid SE that was manufactured in May 2013. The battery failed for the first time this past Saturday (4/11). The car was completely dead. I didn't leave anything on that would cause the battery drain. It was towed to our local Ford dealership (not where I purchased it) and they gave it the once over and according to the paperwork, it looks like they updated TSB 14-0173.

 

I have to admit that I am very nervous that this issue will occur again. I have only had the car for a year, and it has low miles on it (12,000). I traded in my previous car because it had reliability issues and was in the shop every few weeks for various issues (it was a VW Golf). After being stranded without a car for the umpteenth time, I gave up and traded it in for the C-Max. I have owned many Fords in the past and haven't had too many problems, so I was comfortable purchasing another Ford. We also own a 2005 Prius and that car has been great, with no issues at all. 

 

I decided on the C-Max over another Prius and am now wondering if I made the right decision. When I picked the vehicle up a few days ago, I asked the service rep "is there a possibility that this will become a recurring issue, or has the issue been resolved?". He couldn't give me a straight answer. I told him that my last car was unreliable, had left me stranded a number of times and was in the shop often. I told him that I was fearful that I was once again in the same situation, and that I no longer felt comfortable driving the car more than a 10 mile radius from my home in the event it went dead again. He said he understood my concerns, but that while he "thinks" the issue was resolved, he really couldn't say for sure that it would not happen again. 

 

I like the car, and I LOVE the gas mileage, but I am considering trading it in. I don't want to be in the same predicament I was with the VW, in that I always held my breathe wondering if it would start, run, etc. 

 

I am interested to know if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if anyone has continued to have issues with battery drainage that has left them stranded. if so, how did you proceed? I don't like the "wait and see" attitude that I feel like I was given by the service rep, but I am not sure what else to do. Trading it in would also amount to me taking a financial loss on the vehicle at this point.

 

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

 

[stevedebi]

I have a 2013 C-Max Hybrid SE that was manufactured in May 2013. The battery failed for the first time this past Saturday (4/11). The car was completely dead. I didn't leave anything on that would cause the battery drain. It was towed to our local Ford dealership (not where I purchased it) and they gave it the once over and according to the paperwork, it looks like they updated TSB 14-0173.

 

I have to admit that I am very nervous that this issue will occur again. I have only had the car for a year, and it has low miles on it (12,000). I traded in my previous car because it had reliability issues and was in the shop every few weeks for various issues (it was a VW Golf). After being stranded without a car for the umpteenth time, I gave up and traded it in for the C-Max. I have owned many Fords in the past and haven't had too many problems, so I was comfortable purchasing another Ford. We also own a 2005 Prius and that car has been great, with no issues at all. 

 

I decided on the C-Max over another Prius and am now wondering if I made the right decision. When I picked the vehicle up a few days ago, I asked the service rep "is there a possibility that this will become a recurring issue, or has the issue been resolved?". He couldn't give me a straight answer. I told him that my last car was unreliable, had left me stranded a number of times and was in the shop often. I told him that I was fearful that I was once again in the same situation, and that I no longer felt comfortable driving the car more than a 10 mile radius from my home in the event it went dead again. He said he understood my concerns, but that while he "thinks" the issue was resolved, he really couldn't say for sure that it would not happen again. 

 

I like the car, and I LOVE the gas mileage, but I am considering trading it in. I don't want to be in the same predicament I was with the VW, in that I always held my breathe wondering if it would start, run, etc. 

 

I am interested to know if anyone else has been in a similar situation and if anyone has continued to have issues with battery drainage that has left them stranded. if so, how did you proceed? I don't like the "wait and see" attitude that I feel like I was given by the service rep, but I am not sure what else to do. Trading it in would also amount to me taking a financial loss on the vehicle at this point.

 

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Most of the probems did seem to happen with the SE model, unfortunately. However, one incident in a year does not indicate a systematic problem. It is also possible you just got a bad battery. I'd wait for it to happen twice more before giving up. Also, did you buy it new? After three major failures like that, you could go through the buyback system because the car is a lemon. Folks have done it.

[fcforce]

Thank you for your reply stevedebi.

 

I bought the vehicle used (I am the second owner). When I bought the car, it only had 900 miles on it. I thought that was kind of odd and asked why it was traded in with such low mileage. The salesman gave me some story along the lines of "well, they just didn't like it and could never tell if the car was on or not". I didn't think much more about it. But now looking back, there have been some other glitches, such as the "Media" portion of the radio not working sometimes, and the tailgate lift failing to lift. It will pop open but fail to lift. Again, I just chalked it up to minor glitches that I would bring to the attention of Ford when it was in for oil changes or inspections. 

 

I understand what you are saying about waiting for it to happen again, but I have no idea if it happened before I bought it. I doubt that the salesman would have disclosed that perhaps that was a reason it was traded back in. I will wait to see if it does happen again, but I just hate the idea that I could be stranded somewhere. One of my dogs has medical issues that absolutely requires daily medication at timed intervals, so the idea of not being able to get home when I need to stresses me out a bit. 

 

Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it! :)

[Kelleytoons]

The battery problem can definitely be a concern and there is no one here who can give you an assurance you won't get stranded.  And there is no one at Ford who could do it either.  There are some things you can do to help the situation.

First and foremost, get a battery jumper, the kind that are powered by a li-ion battery and give you a status of the charge.  These things don't cost a lot (I got ours for around $50) and can hold a charge a long time (I bought ours six months ago and it still has 4 out of 5 bars of charge left -- two will jump start nearly any car).  Having that and cables in your car will reduce your odds of getting totally stranded to less than 1% (there are still times you may not even be able to jump start the car, or any car for that matter).

 

Next read the threads here about all the TSBs and fixes that need to be considered.  They are many, and some of them aren't obvious even to the most competent of dealerships.  You want to be armed with as much information to give them as possible for the next time it happens (if it never happens again the effort isn't wasted -- think of it as insurance).

 

I understand how you feel about needing reliable transportation (at my wife and my age it's even more important than your dog :>) but with those two things above taken care of in advance I would think you could rest assured you will be able to handle it.  It may require a few more trips back to the dealership to work through those issues, but as long as you remain calm and know that you can always get your car going yourself if worse comes to worst you should be all right.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Kelleytoons

[plus 3 golfer]

I agree with Kelleytoons.  It's too bad that Ford has yet to articulate if they have found the issue(s) that cause recurring dead batteries.

 

Since, we don't know why some have recurring dead batteries, I'd also suggest carrying a Jump Start Battery or jumper cables in the car to mitigate being stranded for a longer period of time should the car fail to start due to the dead battery issue.  Unless the battery is bad and completely dead, owners have had success using the Jump Start Battery. I believe there may have been one where the Jump Start didn't work.   I'm not aware of anyone that has been unable to jump start their C-Max using jumper cables (of course you need another car around willing to lend a hand).  I've never had a dead battery but I do carry jumper cables tucked in the compartment under the driver's seat.  Some have also suggested using a battery tender to maintain the 12 V battery when at home.   One should not have to do these things but if one is going to keep the car and does not want to be left stranded, it's cheap "insurance" against being stranded. 

[Adrian_L]

There are astonishingly small battery chargers available now and since you're not cranking a starter motor they don't need to be particularly strong.

 

A 100% guarantee of reliability doesn't exist with any car, unfortunately. 

[fcforce]

Thank you all for your great input! I will look into a battery charger. 

 

I do have one other question that maybe someone can address:

I read online that some C-Max owners have experienced the vehicle shutting down while driving or getting a message advising them to "safely pull over" and then the vehicle shuts down. Has anyone experienced this personally? Is this more of a rare occurrence than the battery simply being dead? I found that alarming when I read it, and wondered how people handled that scenario.

 

Again, thanks everyone!

[Bugblndr]

I think you will find that situation extremely rare and personally, I wouldn't worry about it.  Unless of course you like to drive the car until it runs out of gas, then it will happen frequently.   ;)

[marshtex2]

You are getting lots of info to work with.  Read my post QUICK RELIEF FROM DEAD BATTERY SYNDROME.  Having even the smallest jump start battery pack on hand can reset the battery control module in a minute or less and you're on the road again.  It seems that if the updates are installed, this syndrome hardly ever happens anymore.

[fcforce]

Marshtex2 I will read your post. Thanks! I feel a little better about this having read everyone's input. I was just pretty nervous thinking "oh no, here we go again...another car with reliability issues". Thanks again!

[stevedebi]

Thank you for your reply stevedebi.

 

I bought the vehicle used (I am the second owner). When I bought the car, it only had 900 miles on it. I thought that was kind of odd and asked why it was traded in with such low mileage. The salesman gave me some story along the lines of "well, they just didn't like it and could never tell if the car was on or not". I didn't think much more about it. But now looking back, there have been some other glitches, such as the "Media" portion of the radio not working sometimes, and the tailgate lift failing to lift. It will pop open but fail to lift. Again, I just chalked it up to minor glitches that I would bring to the attention of Ford when it was in for oil changes or inspections. 

 

I understand what you are saying about waiting for it to happen again, but I have no idea if it happened before I bought it. I doubt that the salesman would have disclosed that perhaps that was a reason it was traded back in. I will wait to see if it does happen again, but I just hate the idea that I could be stranded somewhere. One of my dogs has medical issues that absolutely requires daily medication at timed intervals, so the idea of not being able to get home when I need to stresses me out a bit. 

 

Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it! :)

It seems to me that a carfax might indicate that the vehicle had been bought back by the manufacturer. But I'm not positive.

 

But if someone traded the vehicle in to the dealer because of battery problems, it would not show up in Carfax.

Edited April 16, 2015 by stevedebi

[raadsel]

It seems to me that a carfax might indicate that the vehicle had been bought back by the manufacturer. But I'm not positive.

 

But if someone traded the vehicle in to the dealer because of battery problems, it would not show up in Carfax.

 

Yes, the Carfax will indicate if the car was bought back by the manufacturer under Lemon laws, someone posted a link to a car at a Chicago dealer, and the Carfax clearly showed it was a lemon. Actually, this is the car (there is a link to the Carfax on the page) and this is the header of the Carfax.

 

And also agree, if they just traded in the car to get rid of it, and took the loss without going though the lemon law process, then likely the Carfax wouldn't show anything. Then again, some dealers report maintenance work done to Carfax, so in some cases you can see if the car had the battery fixed/replaced previously.

[fcforce]

I'll have to look at the Carfax and see if it reveals anything. I just found it odd that it was traded in with only 900 miles on it. The salesmen told me they couldn't get used to the hybrid technology, and could never tell when the car was on or not. And then the salesman said they traded it for a Fusion hybrid. If you didn't like one hybrid, I would think you wouldn't turn around and buy another one. I'm hopeful that the issue has been resolved. We'll see.

[stevedebi]

I'll have to look at the Carfax and see if it reveals anything. I just found it odd that it was traded in with only 900 miles on it. The salesmen told me they couldn't get used to the hybrid technology, and could never tell when the car was on or not. And then the salesman said they traded it for a Fusion hybrid. If you didn't like one hybrid, I would think you wouldn't turn around and buy another one. I'm hopeful that the issue has been resolved. We'll see.

If you register on the ford owner site, it should show the maintenance history that was done by a dealer.

[fcforce]

Thanks, I will do that.

 

On another note, when I got in the car this morning, the date was set to two days ago (4/16). This is odd, because the time was correct. When I picked the car up at the dealer on Tuesday, the date was incorrect, so I reset it and it has held accurately until this morning. Of course now I am wondering if this is a sign of an impending issue. 

 

Also, I did a little research on the VIN number and from what I see, the vehicle was purchased at auction on 2/18/14. I purchased the car on 3/3/14. The salesman specifically told me that "the vehicle was traded in by an older couple who couldn't get used to the Hybrid technology." 

 

I am annoyed, yet not surprised that he lied. But I am also alarmed that a car with only 900 was purchased at auction. 

Edited April 18, 2015 by fcforce

[plus 3 golfer]

Thanks, I will do that.

 

On another note, when I got in the car this morning, the date was set to two days ago (4/16). This is odd, because the time was correct. When I picked the car up at the dealer on Tuesday, the date was incorrect, so I reset it and it has held accurately until this morning. Of course now I am wondering if this is a sign of an impending issue. 

Just a couple of comments.  Early on the automatic phone contact updates when left to "on" would some how cause incorrect time.  Turning auto updates off solved the issue.  I also believe that a new MFT / Sync update in 2013 should have solved this.  Also, make sure when resetting time that AM or PM is correct.  During the time when the auto updates were causing the time to change on my C-Max, I thought the date had changed after I reset the time but concluded that I neglected to set AM or PM. 

[fcforce]

When I picked it up at the dealer I did make sure it was PM. The date worked fine for a few days and then was suddenly two days behind yesterday (should have said 4/18, but said 4/16). I'll keep an eye on it and start documenting any further anomalies.

[blaquetung]

fcforce, I feel for you for being told what seems to be a lie.

 

As a fairly early adopter of a C-MAX, I have gone through the multiple early updates as many others have. Hopefully the person that turned your car in just couldn't wait for the initial run through of updates (or downgrade in mpg).

 

The only issue that I potentially still have is the dead starter battery, but I'm hoping that my latest TSB update takes care of it. Even if it doesn't, so far it has died once a year (twice total) and only needed to be replaced once. I bought a jumper battery for the car now just in case.

 

After considering the price of taxes in selling and buying a new car and the depriciation of value, it would take a lot of dead batteries for it to be monetarily beneficial for me to sell the car.

 

I plan on getting over 200,000 miles out of this car. Even if it took 8 starter batteries to do so, I'm looking at $800 or so total and a once a year inconvenience of jumping it.

 

Other than that, I really do love the car and would buy it again. Actually, my parents also bought one and have had no problems at all (another 2013 SEL). In the future, I'm pretty intrigued by the Chevy Bolt concept.

[plus 3 golfer]

When I picked it up at the dealer I did make sure it was PM. The date worked fine for a few days and then was suddenly two days behind yesterday (should have said 4/18, but said 4/16). I'll keep an eye on it and start documenting any further anomalies.

Did you buy it from a Ford dealer and is all software / recalls up to date?  What's the manufacturing date (on placard / sticker on inside front door jam) and here  for date and Outstanding Field Service Actions (ETIS gives correct data for my VIN except wrong model).  

[mlsstl]

...it would take a lot of dead batteries for it to be monetarily beneficial for me to sell the car.

 

For me, and many others, the issue was not the cost of maintenance but rather the extra measure of unpredictability. It is one thing to go 4 or 5 years and have to buy a new battery -- that's pretty much a way of life with any car on the road. However, with the C-Max it has been the noticeable number of cars with multiple battery failures in the first year and Ford's seeming inability to diagnose, much less fix, the problem with certainty.

 

While things seem to be better with the newer model years, we're still not at the point where Ford has been able to say 'this was the problem and we have fixed it."

 

For me and lots of others, while cost is certainly a factor, reliability is a bigger issue. Low operating costs don't mean much if the car isn't operating. ;-)

[fcforce]

Plus 3 Golfer, yes it was purchased from a Ford dealer. And yes, it is now up to date on everything except the latest recall because the parts aren't in yet (safety restraint component I believe).

 

Blaquetung,I would easily lose $4000 if I traded it in...maybe even a little more.

 

Mlsstl, exactly! I drove approximately 20 miles from home today and when it was time to start it up to drive home, I held my breathe. I hate that feeling. The VW I traded in for this car became unreliable which after awhile became mentally draining. I never knew where I would get stuck. I'm hoping that maybe this was an isolated incident, but from the service guy told me, I'm not so sure.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice! ☺

[Adrian_L]

Mlsstl will disagree with me, as he did before.  But here's the thing:  the C-max isn't plagued by terminal transmission problems.  Neither have owners been driving down the road and the electronics go wonky and leave you stranded.  The dead battery problem is certainly annoying for a few, but can be easily fixed in the short term with a $50 battery charger.  No worry, no anxiety......boost it up and you're on your way.

 

I don't intend to start any contentious debate, but there are alot of worse problems that could plague a car.  Personally I would stay away from the SE model, but anyone who claims that the C-max is some of dangerous proposition is clearly not using their grey matter.

 

And to those who have decided the C-max isn't for them.  Why are you still on the forum?!  It is sort of like hanging out on a date long after you've told her she's not your type  ;)    

Edited April 19, 2015 by Adrian_L

[Kelleytoons]

The last point is the most telling -- folks who don't want this car are wasting their time here.  Maybe they just don't have a life -- I understand that, kind of.  Many people don't like playing sports, or creating, and the internet is a way of "having something to do" that *feels* important, somehow (even if it mostly isn't -- heck, almost anything we post here is something that in five years won't even be worth looking at, if it even lasts that long).

 

I come here mostly for information on a vehicle I DO like (actually kind of love :>) and maybe help others, but if I had decided to dump Maximis I surely wouldn't spend any more time hanging around.  Life is WAY too short.

[mlsstl]

Why are you still on the forum?!

 

Some of us are simply interested in cars and actually read a variety of user forums for several different cars. Is that OK?

 

I follow the Volvo forum even though I no longer own one, as well as this forum and the one for BMW, though I don't own either car. I also follow the Mini and Subaru forums, the brands of cars we currently do drive.

 

In the case of the C-Max, it is a car I'm still interested in as we will probably trade our Mini sometime within the next year or so. I'd actually like to see Ford come up with a solid diagnosis and announce that they have cured the problem. .

 

I realize that a car that doesn't start is not as bad as a car that quits running in heavy traffic, but neither does that make unpredictable starting acceptable behavior in a new vehicle. Different people draw the line for "acceptable" in different spots.This problem started in the 2013 vehicles and we are now well into 2015 with still no firm solution. I'd like to see that change.

 

Now, if my comments are simply not welcome since I'm not a current owner, let me know and I'll take the hint.

[Bugblndr]

Has anyone with a 2015 experienced this issue? I've not read of any.