About to buy a NEW 2013 C-Max Hybrid today

[Jus-A-CMax]

storage loss is minimal....lol, obviously, you have NOT seen how much crap we take to the snow for a week in our "regular" CMax. Let alone for the ClamBake/Camping that we go to every year ;)

[hybridbear]

Do you not understand that if I drive my usual drive (more than 30 miles) that an Energi is NOT practical for me? And when I drive my usual (long) drive there is no where I can plug it in?

Why is it not practical for a 30 mile drive? On a 30 mile trip you'd use about 3/4 of a gallon of gas in the hybrid or maybe about 1/5 of a gallon of gas in the Energi plus about $0.75 of electricity. The Energi makes a more efficient use of energy on each trip, regardless of distance traveled.

[Smiling Jack]

Why is it not practical for a 30 mile drive? On a 30 mile trip you'd use about 3/4 of a gallon of gas in the hybrid or maybe about 1/5 of a gallon of gas in the Energi plus about $0.75 of electricity. The Energi makes a more efficient use of energy on each trip, regardless of distance traveled.

 

By my calculations, the crossover point (at which the fuel used - gas plus electric - in the Energi would exceed that for the Hybrid) is about 200 miles.  (I could elaborate if anyone is interested.)

[raadsel]

I'll agree storage loss is not minimal, as you lose about a quarter of the cargo space, including about half of the space under the cargo cover. It also makes it difficult if you transport larger boxes, since the cargo floor is no longer even with the folded down back seats. And this is on top of many of us wishing the C-Max was a few inches longer (like the Prius V) to give just a bit more space behind the back seats. I sometimes wonder if Ford should have used the body from the Grand C-Max in the US, but not included the third row of seats (again, like the Prius V).

 

The other issue with the Energi is the loss of gas mileage because of the extra weight. While running in electric mode can counter act that, as pointed out, it does depend on the type of driving you do and how frequently you can charge. For example, in my case, I don't have easy access to a power outlet where I park my car.

 

Last, for those who are buying new, the Energi is more money. While some people can make that money back through tax credits, how much you can get back depends on your tax situation as well as where you live (if you have local tax credits).

 

I seriously considered the Energi, and may have even bought one if I had found the right deal. As I mentioned, though, one of the things that kept me from aggressively looking for the Energi is the difficulty charging the car; at home and the fact that my city has very few public charging stations, both based on size of the metro area and the population.

[Smiling Jack]

By my calculations, the crossover point (at which the fuel used - gas plus electric - in the Energi would exceed that for the Hybrid) is about 200 miles.  (I could elaborate if anyone is interested.)

 

To clarify, my 200-mile crossover point assumed one charge; so, assuming no opportunity to charge other than at home, this would equate to a 100-mile one-way (200-mile two-way) commute or trip.

 

Edited July 14, 2015:  Correction - my recollection of that calculation was wrong:  the 200-mile crossover point calculation assumed charging at destination as well as at home; so without the opportunity to charge at the destination, that would equate to a 50-mile one-way (100-mile two-way) commute or trip.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Smiling Jack

[KashmirSwimsuit]

awesome everybody thanks for the response... however, like i said, I AM NO WAY GOING TO BY AN ENERGI... thats it.  I've done the research and I am going to buy a Hybrid VERY VERY soon, im just looking into the costs and how i can negotiate my best price point and extra etc... now, im looking at a 2015 SEL with 302a and pano roof... for 27,500 plus like 2,700 in taxes and fees etc..... i really wish it has the remote start since i read its best to lest the engine charge up the battery since i only commute a few miles i would be using all gas in the mornings esp in the mountains of jersey... but you think i can tell the saleman to give me the remote start and external and interal protection packages and roof racks and ESP plan and 1.9% loan for 28k maybe???? IDK, i've never bough a car over 8k and this is the cost of my little brothers house so im super anxious on spending this much money.... am i asking too much is 27k good enough for the standard 302 bonuses???

[cheezy]

awesome everybody thanks for the response... however, like i said, I AM NO WAY GOING TO BY AN ENERGI... thats it.  I've done the research and I am going to buy a Hybrid VERY VERY soon, im just looking into the costs and how i can negotiate my best price point and extra etc... now, im looking at a 2015 SEL with 302a and pano roof... for 27,500 plus like 2,700 in taxes and fees etc..... i really wish it has the remote start since i read its best to lest the engine charge up the battery since i only commute a few miles i would be using all gas in the mornings esp in the mountains of jersey... but you think i can tell the saleman to give me the remote start and external and interal protection packages and roof racks and ESP plan and 1.9% loan for 28k maybe???? IDK, i've never bough a car over 8k and this is the cost of my little brothers house so im super anxious on spending this much money.... am i asking too much is 27k good enough for the standard 302 bonuses???

 

Well, just IMO, we NEVER buy new cars: they are the worst investment in our lifetimes, ever.

 

We just bought a '13 SEL for 50% at what you are looking at possibly spending. Excellent analogy though, IMHO, of comparative pricing for housing. There's used ones out there for decent bargains. Don't let these naysayers scare you from those deals!! 

Edited July 14, 2015 by cheezy

[plus 3 golfer]

By my calculations, the crossover point (at which the fuel used - gas plus electric - in the Energi would exceed that for the Hybrid) is about 200 miles.  (I could elaborate if anyone is interested.)

I'm not sure I follow what you are doing / trying to say as there is more than fuel saving.  There is the original price difference to make up plus the Energi will get less FE when in Hybrid mode than the Hybrid.  I looked very hard as to whether the Energi made economic sense to me in December 2012 when I bought my SEL Hybrid as I really wanted one. But, it didn't as my out-of-pocket cost for the Energi would have been over $2300 more than the Hybrid and the simple payback would exceed 10 years.  My current numbers are not much better (see below)  

 

My calculation show that for my driving with no intra-day charging, 120 V charging station, $0.086 per kWh, $2.62 per gallon for gas I could possibly drive 6000 EV only miles out of 15000 annual miles and save about $190 per year in energy cost.  If gas goes to $4.00 per gallon, the saving might double to $380 per year.  So, for about a $1800 cost difference between the 2015 Energi and Hybrid SEL after Federal tax credit credit and cash incentives (AZ had no state tax incentives), the simple payback is over 9 years or about 135,000 miles.  At $4 per gallon, the payback is about cut in half.  But that is still way to long for me and besides I'm not sure the Phoenix area ever saw $4 gas. :)

 

Of course for states with PHEV incentives, the payback could be shortened considerably.  

[Kelleytoons]

Kashmir,

 

You can ask whatever you want to ask -- the beautiful thing about a sales negotiation is that you can ALWAYS walk away.  If you have made up your mind in advance that you NEED that car and WANT that particular one you are screwed.  Instead, you must say in your mind "what that car is worth to me is xxxx, and I'm not going to pay more for it and if I can't get it for that price I'll find some other car" and as long as you are strong and make that point clear to the salesperson you are figuratively (and hopefully eventually, literally) in the driver's seat.

 

As to what's fair -- that isn't up the salesperson to decide, or anyone here, really.  What's fair is what you can negotiate.  If you aren't good at these sorts of things, take along someone who is (better still, have THEM take charge).  

 

I walked away from a really terrible deal one time and the salesperson chased me out of the showroom and when I still said no and got in my car he called my cell five minutes later.  As it turned out, I really wasn't interested at all in that car, but it shows you who is really in control in these situations.  There are lots of car dealers out there and lots of cars to be made deals on -- there is only one you.

[Smiling Jack]

I'm not sure I follow what you are doing / trying to say as there is more than fuel saving.  There is the original price difference to make up plus the Energi will get less FE when in Hybrid mode than the Hybrid.  I looked very hard as to whether the Energi made economic sense to me in December 2012 when I bought my SEL Hybrid as I really wanted one. But, it didn't as my out-of-pocket cost for the Energi would have been over $2300 more than the Hybrid and the simple payback would exceed 10 years.  My current numbers are not much better (see below)  

 

My calculation show that for my driving with no intra-day charging, 120 V charging station, $0.086 per kWh, $2.62 per gallon for gas I could possibly drive 6000 EV only miles out of 15000 annual miles and save about $190 per year in energy cost.  If gas goes to $4.00 per gallon, the saving might double to $380 per year.  So, for about a $1800 cost difference between the 2015 Energi and Hybrid SEL after Federal tax credit credit and cash incentives (AZ had no state tax incentives), the simple payback is over 9 years or about 135,000 miles.  At $4 per gallon, the payback is about cut in half.  But that is still way to long for me and besides I'm not sure the Phoenix area ever saw $4 gas. :)

 

Of course for states with PHEV incentives, the payback could be shortened considerably.  

 

Many Energi buyers (like myself) are convinced that (after considering the Federal tax credit) the Energi can be bought for essentially the same price as a similarly equipped SEL Hybrid; so that the price of the car does not necessarily affect the decision.

[Smiling Jack]

Kashmir,

 

You can ask whatever you want to ask -- the beautiful thing about a sales negotiation is that you can ALWAYS walk away.  If you have made up your mind in advance that you NEED that car and WANT that particular one you are screwed.  Instead, you must say in your mind "what that car is worth to me is xxxx, and I'm not going to pay more for it and if I can't get it for that price I'll find some other car" and as long as you are strong and make that point clear to the salesperson you are figuratively (and hopefully eventually, literally) in the driver's seat.

 

As to what's fair -- that isn't up the salesperson to decide, or anyone here, really.  What's fair is what you can negotiate.  If you aren't good at these sorts of things, take along someone who is (better still, have THEM take charge).  

 

I walked away from a really terrible deal one time and the salesperson chased me out of the showroom and when I still said no and got in my car he called my cell five minutes later.  As it turned out, I really wasn't interested at all in that car, but it shows you who is really in control in these situations.  There are lots of car dealers out there and lots of cars to be made deals on -- there is only one you.

 

Excellent stuff from Kelley, here.

 

My father was a salesman.  He sold both new (Ford, Lincoln, Mercury) and used cars.  He had much advice on buying cars. A few examples I am thinking of now are:

 

• The dealer's job is to separate you from as much of your money as possible.  Yours is to keep as much of your money as possible.  They are professionals at this, and you are an amateur.  The only way you can beat them is with personal discipline.
• There's no such thing as a good deal on a bad car.
• A car that does not suit your needs is a bad car for you.
• Buy the best car you can comfortably afford and one that will suit your needs for a long time.  Then take really good care of it and keep it as long as possible.
• In order to make a good deal, you must be prepared to walk away from a bad deal.  If you are not, they can smell it, and they will rob you.  (My buddy adds, "... and the only way to make a great deal is to be prepared to walk away from a good deal.")

Edited July 15, 2015 by Smiling Jack

[plus 3 golfer]

Many Energi buyers (like myself) are convinced that (after considering the Federal tax credit) the Energi can be bought for essentially the same price as a similarly equipped SEL Hybrid; so that the price of the car does not necessarily affect the decision.

Not the case now which is what we should be talking about not some "special" MY end incentives to dump cars.  The 2015 Hybrid currently has a $1,500 Customer Cash (PGM #12768) incentive that is not available on the Energi in AZ and my guess in virtually all states (not worth my time to check).  The around $4000 FTC brings the Energi down to within several hundred $ of the Hybrid.  So, all other things being equal, the Energi is around $1800 more than the Hybrid.   Add back the state sales tax on the price difference between the two and in AZ and a lot of other states the $1800 is over $2000. 

 

Convincing requires supported facts. ;) :) So, unless one's state has incentives on PHEVs, I doubt one can buy an Energi for near the same price as the Hybrid all other things being the same at this time.    

Edited July 16, 2015 by Plus 3 Golfer

[KashmirSwimsuit]

Alrighty everybody, I made the plunge!!! I bought a 2015 Hybrid SEL magnetic with the 302a and pano roof, remote start, and I had them throw in the interior and exterior protection package and roof racks to sweeten the pot and also agreed to 1.9% amd ford ESP for under a grand. I can't wait to pick the Chansonian Maximilian high velocity kenetic transportation machine of glory tomorrow morning! Then I get a 3 hr round trip to NYC and up the palicades and back then to Asbury Park for a concert Friday! Time to get to know the dude... next I'm going to look into tips on using the remote start and sync and all the schtuff. This is my first new car so I'm super excited but it's 1 am and I need to get up in a few hours, opps. Hopefully my life will start to fall into place now car troubles will be gone, until something breaks

[Adrian_L]

Time to get to know the dude!?.............ahem, no disrespect but cars and boats are always hers or shes.  Although I have to say our Maxine gives me less grief than I usually get from............let's just say she's trouble free.

 

I wish I had got into this conversation earlier.  I would have had some lively comments to say about the "Energi is a better car" comment.  Can you even get three of those little carry-on suitcases in the trunk?!  

 

Japanese saying:  ten men; ten tastes.   Not every Ford shoe fits the same foot.

[Smiling Jack]

Plus 3 Golfer:  FYI, current Ford site gives base MSRP for the Hybrid SEL as $27,170 and for the Energi (SEL) as $31,170.  The price difference is essentially equal to the $4007 Federal tax credit.

 

Adrian:  As a matter of fact, the Energi will fit exactly 4 carry-on bags, seats up.

 

Kashmir:  Congratulations on your great new car and on your success in getting them to sweeten the deal with equipment !!  I would be very interested to know details on the roof racks you got.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Smiling Jack

[raadsel]

Alrighty everybody, I made the plunge!!! I bought a 2015 Hybrid SEL magnetic with the 302a and pano roof, remote start, and I had them throw in the interior and exterior protection package and roof racks to sweeten the pot and also agreed to 1.9% amd ford ESP for under a grand. I can't wait to pick the Chansonian Maximilian high velocity kenetic transportation machine of glory tomorrow morning! Then I get a 3 hr round trip to NYC and up the palicades and back then to Asbury Park for a concert Friday! Time to get to know the dude... next I'm going to look into tips on using the remote start and sync and all the schtuff. This is my first new car so I'm super excited but it's 1 am and I need to get up in a few hours, opps. Hopefully my life will start to fall into place now car troubles will be gone, until something breaks

 

Congrats! Go out and enjoy it this weekend and let us know if you have questions. Also, one recommendation frequently made here, take an hour or so, get in the car with the owner's manual, and as you read the manual play with the corresponding buttons/switches on the car. It will answer a lot of your initial questions and help you get familiar with all your new C-Max has to offer.

[cheezy]

Alrighty everybody, I made the plunge!!! I bought a 2015 Hybrid SEL magnetic 

 

 

Hey Hey Congrats!!!  Like a kid at Christmas !!

 

:happy feet:

[Kelleytoons]

Wow, FIRST new car -- no one picked up on that.  That's huge (in contrast, I've only ever bought one used car in my life, and it was a big mistake as it had had an undisclosed accident that really screwed it up for many years, back in the day when such things weren't easy to find out about).

 

Have a ton of fun -- nothing better (and over a year later Maximis -- who IS a she -- is still my "new" car and feels that way every time I drive her, unlike any other one I've ever owned).

 

(And as to the Energi owner who thinks it has enough space -- you must be using luggage made for the lead in the new Ant Man movie.  My tennis bag would *literally* not fit in the back of that car, as it barely fits in the back of my own.  What a royal PITA it would have been to have to put it in the back seat).

[KashmirSwimsuit]

Time to get to know the dude!?.............ahem, no disrespect but cars and boats are always hers or shes.  Although I have to say our Maxine gives me less grief than I usually get from............let's just say she's trouble free.

 

I wish I had got into this conversation earlier.  I would have had some lively comments to say about the "Energi is a better car" comment.  Can you even get three of those little carry-on suitcases in the trunk?!  

 

Japanese saying:  ten men; ten tastes.   Not every Ford shoe fits the same foot.

I call all new and young things of any derivitive little dudes, its a little trickier to say dudette... I dont know.. plus, Its hard to go with the usual feminie classification since the name is after all Chansonian Maximilian high velocity kenetic transportation machine of glory!!! Not Maxmine.

[cheezy]

 Maximilian high velocity kenetic transportation machine of glory!!! 

 

 

Perfecto !!!

[stevedebi]

Not the case now which is what we should be talking about not some "special" MY end incentives to dump cars.  The 2015 Hybrid currently has a $1,500 Customer Cash (PGM #12768) incentive that is not available on the Energi in AZ and my guess in virtually all states (not worth my time to check).  The around $4000 FTC brings the Energi down to within several hundred $ of the Hybrid.  So, all other things being equal, the Energi is around $1800 more than the Hybrid.   Add back the state sales tax on the price difference between the two and in AZ and a lot of other states the $1800 is over $2000. 

 

Convincing requires supported facts. ;) :) So, unless one's state has incentives on PHEVs, I doubt one can buy an Energi for near the same price as the Hybrid all other things being the same at this time.    

Different states, different policies. I should have said I was in CA, which has state as well as the federal incentives, plus single rider carpool access. Here, the price was virtually identical when I bought - a couple hundred more for the Energi.

Edited July 16, 2015 by stevedebi

[plus 3 golfer]

Different states, different policies. I should have said I was in CA, which has state as well as the federal incentives, plus single rider carpool access. Here, the price was virtually identical when I bought - a couple hundred more for the Energi.

Correct as I've said but again a quick scan shows maybe a handful of states that provide such state tax credits for PHEVs.  Here's a link  for the curious to the most up to date list I could find of the "benefits" states offer to AFV including PHEVs (sometimes).