Ford to end C-max production at Michigan plant

[tr7driver]

The last time my car was in they gave me a loaner Focus with the duel clutch transmission.  It shifted fast, but I didn't like the feel of it.  Maybe the smooth CVT has me spoiled. 

[fbov]

The lack of CVT alone would be a deal breaker.

I'll maintain you don't have a Continuously Variable Transmission today. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission 

 

The last time my car was in they gave me a loaner Focus with the dual clutch transmission.  It shifted fast, but I didn't like the feel of it.  Maybe the smooth CVT has me spoiled. 

The Sonata Hybrid drive train shifts very nicely, but it is a geared drive train. There are shifts to feel, and an engine/motor changing speed in the slow-rise-then-drop pattern of geared drive trains shifting under acceleration. I suspect their use of the motor as part of the dual clutch system may improve smoothness. 

 

Our C-Max' have the TRW "synergy drive" that links an engine and two motor/generators through a ring/planet/sun power split device. The power split device elements are fixed ratios. The traction MG is linked to the wheels at a fixed gear ratio. It's a constant speed transmission that can internally vary engine and charging MG speeds. 

http://www.c-maxenergi.com/2011/02/george-gelb-planetary-gear-hybrid-drive.html

 

A CVT ranges continuously from low ratios to high ratios between input and output shaft speed. That also allows the engine to run at constant speed as the vehicle accelerates, but with a conventional drive train layout. 

 

Have fun,

Frank

[Kelleytoons]

Frank,

 

I don't care what it's called but I just LOVE the smoothness of the power that comes, and can't stand driving (or even being) in a vehicle with a conventional transmission.  So that would be something I would not do, no matter what.

 

And at my age I may well be able to nurse Maximis along so I don't need anything else (or at least until the total EV solutions come along I can live with -- I assume THEY don't "shift" the way conventional engines would, right?  Or do they also lurch along?)

[stolenmoment]

BEVs are (should be!) just as smooth as the CMax, for the same reason: electric motors have a much broader range of efficiency, so you don't need a troublesome transmission to match motor speed to road speed.  Look at diesel-electric and electric trains, for instance: electric motors, no transmissions.

[fbov]

Frank,

 

I don't care what it's called but I just LOVE the smoothness of the power that comes, and can't stand driving (or even being) in a vehicle with a conventional transmission.  

You've fallen in love with driving a "stationary" engine.

 

Stationary engines are not intended to move, as our ICE does, but the output requirements are the same: provide a constant level of output power. Unless you move the throttle, the ICE runs the same speed, gives you the same power output (barring switch to EV). After years of driving standard transmissions, where part of driving is listening to shift points, it took a while to get used to.

 

Now, I feel like geared transmissions enslave the engine to road speed.

 

While any good CVT will give you the "constant engine speed" driving experience. few will be as smooth as EV delivers. You'll have choices you like.  

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[Kelleytoons]

Thanks, Frank, that's good to know.  I thought this was another case of the "I've found something perfect and now they no longer make it" syndrome (can't tell you how many times that has occurred in the last decade or so).

[C-MaxSea]

Does someone need to update/clarify/mutate/conflagrate/discombuberate …………………… Wikipedia on this point ?

 

“Some vehicles that offer CVT are the Ford C-MAX hybrid, the Mitsubishi Lancer, the Dodge Caliber, the Toyota Corolla, the Scion iQ, the Honda Insight, Fit ……………….”

 

Yust wondering,
Nick

Edited January 14, 2017 by C-MaxSea

[jestevens]

I thought I saw a news article that said Ford was planning on producing several all-electric vehicles in the US..

 

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2017/01/03/here-details-fords-electric-vehicle-plan/96109758/

[ChrisMax]

I'm about to buy a 2016 top of the line SEL with low mileage for under $20,000.  Best deal as far as cars go and a good time to buy because Hybrid sales are down due to gas prices.

[Kelleytoons]

I wish I could afford another C-Max right now, but I'm still holding out hope that in a couple of years (when I could) there might be some nice deals on either some new ones on lots or good used ones.

[AZgman]

I'm about to buy a 2016 top of the line SEL with low mileage for under $20,000.  Best deal as far as cars go and a good time to buy because Hybrid sales are down due to gas prices.

 

That seems like a very good price. Enjoy it!

[fbov]

Does someone need to update/clarify/mutate/conflagrate/discombuberate …………………… Wikipedia on this point ?

 

“Some vehicles that offer CVT are the Ford C-MAX hybrid, ...

No, most folks don't understand the distinction, and no marketing department is going to muddy the waters. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Edited January 17, 2017 by fbov

[kostby]

Today Ford announced it is investing $1.2 billion in three Michigan facilities, including $850 million at the Michigan Assembly Plant.

 

Indirectly, I think Ford announced the end date of US C-MAX production at MAP, at the end of April 2018.

If I'm wrong, and 'next May' means 2017, then US C-MAX production will end in April, 2017, a few weeks from now.

 

New Ranger and Bronco at Michigan Assembly

The work to transform Michigan Assembly Plant begins next May. Following the same pattern used during vehicle changeover at Dearborn Truck Plant in 2014, Michigan Assembly will take just four weeks to remove and reinstall the tooling necessary to build the all-new Ford Ranger and Ford Bronco.

 

 

Ford is retooling the plant to begin producing the 2019 Ford Ranger, scheduled to begin 'at the end of 2018', and the 2020 Ford Bronco

 

Ford is investing $850 million in Michigan Assembly Plant to retool the plant to build the all-new Ford Ranger and Ford Bronco. Employees at Michigan Assembly Plant will begin building Ranger at the end of 2018 and Bronco in 2020.

 

 

Link to full Ford press release, also available from Ford Superticker Topic in these forums.

 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/03/28/ford-investing-one-point-two-billion-in-three-michigan-facilities.html

Edited March 28, 2017 by kostby

[MaxHeadroom]

kostby, Ranger changeover is in 2018, not this year.

"Ford is investing $850 million in Michigan Assembly Plant to retool the plant to build the all-new Ford Ranger and Ford Bronco. Employees at Michigan Assembly Plant will begin building Ranger at the end of 2018 and Bronco in 2020." 

Like the rest of that Ford media press release says, and you quoted above, it only takes a month or two to switch the tooling to start Ranger production.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/03/28/ford-investing-one-point-two-billion-in-three-michigan-facilities.pdf

"Michigan Assembly will take just four weeks to remove and reinstall the tooling necessary to build the all-new Ford Ranger and Ford Bronco."

 

So C-Max will end in 2018 indeed.

 

Another thing, looks like the current Focus will be built in Hermosillo (Mexico), and I'd assume the Ford Escape (same Focus/CMax platform) there too.  I could see them importing Ford Focus Electric cars from Europe where its currently produced.  They lose Wayne, so it makes sense.

It looks like about a year between when Wayne stops making CMax and Focus Electrics and the Model E starts up.  Maybe Ford will just glide by for a year on Fusion Hybrids for a year before the Model E takes over hybrid/electric sales.

[MaxHeadroom]

The Detroit Free Press just interviewed some Focus-CMax workers up at Wayne.

Kane said some at the plant are concerned about how long the lag will be between when Ford’s production of the small cars is phased out and when work on the new trucks begins. He said the plant rumor mill hasn’t been clear about a timeline, and some people fear there could be a wind-down period of up to six months.

“We know we're going to get a new product in 2019, but how long are we going to keep building a product that’s not selling,” he said, referring to the Focus and C-Max. “It’s scary in there. We’d like some clarification on the dates.”

So it seems the Ford official media press release about only taking a month or two to switch over to Ranger production at Wayne is not being accepted or heard yet.  It very well may be Ford could quit Focus-CMax production at Wayne early if they feel they have enough to last a few months until Hermosillo takes over production.

Edited March 29, 2017 by MaxHeadroom

[markd]

I saved five grand on my C-MAX by using the Z code, the salesman told me he could knock twenty grand off of a F150.

[ptjones]

Some confusing talk here: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-cancels-mexican-plant-still-moving-small-car-production-n702761I think Electrified Vehicles will be built in Michigan. :headscratch: I just got a 2017 CMAX Brochure in the mail. :) 

 

 

Paul 

[raadsel]

Some confusing talk here: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-cancels-mexican-plant-still-moving-small-car-production-n702761I think Electrified Vehicles will be built in Michigan. :headscratch: I just got a 2017 CMAX Brochure in the mail. :)

 

 

Paul 

 

What I get from that is that there will be two all-electric vehicles built at the plant. It also sounds like they are considering building a hybrid there, making me think this is a car still on the drawing board and will have a different powertrain than the current 2.0L gas engine hybrid used in the Fusion/C-Max/MKZ. My impression is that any hybrids based on the current hybrid powertrain will be build in Mexico, and a new hybrid with a different powertrain will be built in Michigan.

 

I'm also getting the impression there will be a 2018 C-Max this fall/winter. Chances are, it will just be the current 2017 C-Max, just built after September, or so. They can then try and produce enough C-Max cars to last until the 2019 model year, before ending production next April, with the idea that the Model E (C-Max replacement?) will be released as a 2019 model, in the first quarter (or so) of 2019.

Edited March 30, 2017 by raadsel

[djc]

Ford's January press release

 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia-mobile/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/03/ford-adding-electrified-f-150-mustang-transit-by-2020.html

 

promises a 2020 fully electric small SUV built at Flat Rock and a fully autonomous hybrid by 2021.  I believe the hybrid is a Fusion intended initially for ride-hailing only, not individual owners.  The small SUV will offer "at least 300 mile" range.  I am not sure if this vehicle is the forecast model E, or whether it will be AWD.  My google search just now didn't find updated info on either of these vehicles.  I expect the 2018 C-max will be produced this year at the Wayne plant, then Wayne will shift to the Ranger truck to be introduced  "in late 2018" - which, given change-over time of a couple months, implies C-max production into mid next year.  Please post if you find newer news.

[MaxHeadroom]

I expect the 2018 C-max will be produced this year at the Wayne plant, then Wayne will shift to the Ranger truck to be introduced  "in late 2018" - which, given change-over time of a couple months, implies C-max production into mid next year.  Please post if you find newer news.

According to later press releases & articles after the January one, the time line looks like:

 

2018 model Cmax production at Wayne:  August 2017 to April 2018 (that may be enough to last sufficiently)

2019 model Ranger tooling changeover:  begins May 2018

2019 model Ranger pre-production examples (get the bugs out):  July 2018

2019 model Ranger deliveries begin October 2018

Thats my take based on the latest news from just a few days ago.

[djc]

Interesting article on the Wayne plant.  It started late 1950s making the then must-have vehicles: Mercury station wagons.  It has changed many times since.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170717/OEM01/170719798/ford-michigan-assembly-plant

 

The article confirms 2018 end of C-max and Focus production, and a 1-2 month changeover to Ranger and Bronco.  Since those vehicles need to be on dealer lots by Fall, April seems a plausible month for end of C-max.  "The last Focus and C-Max are to roll off the line at Michigan Assembly in mid-2018."

[djc]

A time line for future Ford models in US:

 

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/dcce?site=ca&date=20170824&module=39&category=fproductguide&type=ford&id=3469734&selected=4&class=3912

 

They show 2019 (Model year?) bringing both the Model E and a "C-segment Crossover" that will fill the C-max shoes;  apparently these are distinct.

[djc]

This reports that at the end of August Ford trademarked the name "Energi" for an upcoming car or range of cars:

 

http://fordauthority.com/2017/09/ford-motor-company-energi-trademark-application/

 

They suggest this is in addition to the "C-Max Energi" and "Fusion Energi" names and may become the name of the Model E.

[AudenHoggart]

Does anyone have an idea about whether any of the C-Max replacements will be "tall" like the C-Max?  The combination of "tallness" and the huge windshield makes my C-Max one of the favorite cars I've ever owned.

[ptjones]

Saw this on Greencar Reports:  https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113728_ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-production-over-hybrid-has-only-months-left:sad:

 

Paul