Transmission Leak

[plus 3 golfer]

Maybe try a dose of transmission stop leak?  Might make it "driveable" until the transmission fails because of noise (bearing?). 

 

How did they know the transmission needs replaced as I thought there is a kit to replace the bearing as long the damage wasn't severe.  But, IIRC, they have to remove transmission to check.  There's a TSB that describes it. 

[ptjones]

How about trying some HI-Temp silicon rubber to seal it up? :headscratch:

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Hmm... I'll have a look at stop-leak products.  I have no real idea exactly where its leaking and don't think you can get at it from outside.  As to noise, mine is nothing like the grinding/thumping that requires that bearing kit.  As I understood the service guy, with all those miles you're likely to get in there and find bad parts that you can't get - just wouldn't be worth it.

[plus 3 golfer]

I wonder if TSB 15-0174 describes the issue: RTV failure of damper to transmission case seal. I don’t believe the stop leak products will “work” on RTV sealant. https://ford.oemdtc.com/1036/transmission-fluid-leak-at-the-damper-housing-2013-2014-ford-Lincoln

 

Note this TSB applies to transmissions prior to 12/1/2013 in case you decide to replace with a used transmission. I would assume the damper housing would be included as part of a used transmission.

[ptjones]

I'm thinking the only place it could be leaking is at the surface where the trans and ICE bolt together so If you put a bead of the HI-Temp Copper Silicon Rubber around to above the level of the trans fluid it would slow the leak a lot. There is no real pressure inside the trans to force the fluid out. IMO :)

 

Paul 

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's 3 pics of the transmission.  The TSB describes the leak between the damper housing cover and transmission case.  If fluid leaks only when driving, the leak would likely be above the fill / check plug.  Perhaps, if you removed some of the stuff on top of the engine, you might be able to see enough of the top of the transmission to find the leak.  Also, maybe try tightening some of the bolts you can reach.  I have never looked at how accessible the bolts are. 18 lb-ft of torque isn't much if you can get a wrench on many of the 22 bolts.  Dealer likely won't do that as it's not fixing the issue - sealant failure.

 

1st pic: The damper cover is shown in blue.  It bolts onto the transmission body. Fluid is on the transmission side of the damper cover.  The upper image shows where the RTV sealant is applied.  The damper would be between the cover and the engine (not shown here). 

 

2nd pic: The pic shows the damper cover attached to transmission and then the assembly can be bolted to engine. If there is transmission fluid on the engine side of the damper cover, the transmission input shaft seal is likely bad.

 

3rd pic:  The upper image of pic show the engine with damper in place but damper cover (transmission) not attached.  The damper of the damper assembly which connects the flywheel to the input shaft of the transmission has been removed in the lower image. 

[SnowStorm]

Thanks for the pics!  I checked a few bolts and they were quite tight but not with a torque wrench yet.  It still seems like its leaking out between the bell housing and engine so might be that seal.  I thnik I'll clean it off again, run a bit and see where it shows up first.  I don't have much faith in stop leak stuff but if its the seal maybe its worth a try.(?)

[plus 3 golfer]

I wouldn't worry about a torque wrench.  If you can get any size wrench on a bolt, just tighten it up about the same as you would tighten spark plugs.

 

Below are a parts diagram and list of parts for the HF35.  Looks like there are three shaft seals (input, left and right half shaft), a manual control lever seal.  Then, there's would be the sealant for the damper housing and the end cover.  I don't see any seals for the electrical connectors so maybe a sealant is used.

 

 

Item.pdf

[SnowStorm]

Thanks +3!  So input seal is 7048.  From the CSP 14B03 the complete part # is DG9Z-7048-A.  Its only $3.53 here and appears widely available.  I wonder about all the other parts listed for a repair.  Also, does anyone know if the engine/transaxle has to come out the bottom or can it come up with an engine hoist?  I'll wipe things off and have another look tomorrow.

[plus 3 golfer]

It’s 14b07. https://ford.oemdtc.com/2846/customer-satisfaction-program-14b07-transmission-inspection-and-repair-2013-2014-ford-c-max-fusion-hybrid

 

The transaxle and engine come out together from the top with hoist. When one looks at various TSBs and when I look at the manual for removing unit, it’s labor intensive - about 10+ hours shop time is generally what is shown. It does involve working with the HV system. So, many independent shops could do the job but may not want to work on it. If the leak is from where the damper housing bolts to the engine, then it’s likely the input shaft seal. If the seal is a rubber seal, maybe stop leak might work.

[jestevens]

I have 92K so far, I'll have them look for leaks at next oil change.  Not looking forward to more car payments but if mine starts leaking will probably trade it for a Prius, the Sonata Hybrid is nice too but it uses a six speed transmission, annoying.  I don't think resale value on C-MAX is that high considering when I bought mine used the purchase price was low to start with and unfortunately car has a bad reputation.  It's a shame because up until now I've literally put no major repairs into this car, just oil changes and a new battery, topped off the coolant once.  Otherwise very reliable with the latest software updates.  Never had a problem with parasitic 12V drain. 

 

I've heard a rumor that new Prius is not built as robust as Gen 2 but we'll see.  As far as I know Ford is still just selling Escapes and F-150s so nothing in the line up really appeals to me.. Gas here in PA is higher than in surrounding states because they have lots of bridge repairs to make and public transit to subsidize.  Plus, hybrids are nice for other reasons besides gas economy.

Edited March 13, 2019 by jestevens

[ptjones]

I believe ICE/Trans come out from bottom of ICE compartment as you can see from this picture.

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

After looking at the manual "carefully", Paul is correct.  Who said a picture is worth a 1000 words? :)   I looked at the last 1/2 dozen pics in the procedure showing a crane lowering the engine / transmission with the last few pics showing the transmission being removed from the engine.  The crane was shown in prior pics being raised when the engine / transmission was on the lift table shown in Paul's pic.  Other parts were then removed before the last pics.  

[SnowStorm]

I have a good hoist but no car lift!  And really, I have too many projects now.  I wiped it off today, drove out the driveway and back and it certainly looks like its leaking on the engine side of bell housing.  Starting to think that the only real fix-it option is a new one at $7150 with 3 year warranty.  Hate to ditch a car we still really like.  Still undecided - plenty of almost new 2018s out there for about $15k - or used Tesla Model S cars for $30k.  There are more Superchargers now - very convenient to our travel routes - free fuel - and who knows, 70k miles of additional depreciation offset with fuel savings might be no more than $7150!  A dangerous line of thinking for SnowStorm.

[jestevens]

Yes, it doesn't sound like a fun procedure, like a lot of new cars they drop the body around/over the drivetrain - easy to do in factory but hard to service in a regular garage.  If they can cover via warranty that is great - otherwise ..

[SnowStorm]

Still considering the options.  Dealer will install a transmission for about $1400 if I bring one to them.  I guess I'll have another look around for a later model transmission with low miles.

 

If anyone knows where to get a good used one, please let me know.

Also, does anyone know if its possible to use one from an Energi!

Edited March 28, 2019 by SnowStorm

[plus 3 golfer]

Still considering the options.  Dealer will install a transmission for about $1400 if I bring one to them.  I guess I'll have another look around for a later model transmission with low miles.

 

If anyone knows where to get a good used one, please let me know.

Also, does anyone know if its possible to use one from an Energi!

Several things: Energi has a different final drive gearing, it has an electric pump to circulate fluid for cooling, and there could be an issue with software with VIN not matching Energi transmission code. I wouldn’t do it unless dealer “guarantees” in writing it would work.

[SnowStorm]

Several things: Energi has a different final drive gearing, it has an electric pump to circulate fluid for cooling, and there could be an issue with software with VIN not matching Energi transmission code. I wouldn’t do it unless dealer “guarantees” in writing it would work.

Oh yes, forgot about the gearing.  So I suppose a Fusion Hybrid wouldn't be a good idea either with possible SW/VIN issues.  Anyway, there seem to be quite a few C-Max ones out there - I'm searching now.

 

EDIT:  Ordered a 2016 transmission with 33k miles for $1200 + $150 shipping + opted for extended 1 year parts/labor warranty for $200 (standard was 90 day parts).  My dealer checked the donor car's VIN and found they would order the same part number for it as for my 2013 so should go right in.  It ships out today and should get installed end of next week.  The wrecked car sustained a glancing blow on right front that didn't trip the air bags so the transmission shouldn't have been shocked too badly.

EDIT#2:  Not surprisingly, the old one gets scrapped so I can have it to tear apart!

Edited March 28, 2019 by SnowStorm

[plus 3 golfer]

Great news looks like the "ICE age" can continue for another 140 k miles for about $3 k. :)  :)  

[SnowStorm]

Great news looks like the "ICE age" can continue for another 140 k miles for about $3 k. :)  :)  

Yes... we hope so.  I still say its ending though - just hope gasoline stays available for 140k miles!

[plus 3 golfer]

Yes... we hope so.  I still say its ending though - just hope gasoline stays available for 140k miles!

So, did Ford 60 years ago. :)  I'm still trying to imagine - assuming "replacement energy capsules" is a charged battery bank because I believe that's what it will take.

 

"The car companies themselves, as much as anyone, were promoting the idea of a radical shift in automobiles in the coming decades. The April 25, 1959 issue of the Chicago Daily Tribune relayed the beliefs of Ford VPs, who touted the flying car as one of the many innovations still to come:

 

Can you imagine an autoist driving up to a “gas” station 50 years from now and receiving replacement energy capsules for his car instead of getting a tank full of liquid fuel?

 

Also, can you imagine flying automobiles directed by automatic guidance systems?

 

These were possibilities discussed last week by Dr. Andrew A. Kucher, Ford Motor company vice president in charge of engineering and research, in an address at Northwestern University."

[ptjones]

Good Luck with the Trans change, you should be fine if the FORD Dealer has done this before.

 

I worry about everything being electric with the possibility of one of our enemies setting off an EMP device or Massive Solar Flare destroying everything computer controlled and the Electrical Grid. The only vehicles that would work would be carbureted which would put us back to atleast the 1970's and probably worse.  Maybe Steam Engines. :headscratch:

I still ride my bikes :), It would seem wise to have as many energy options as possible to cover all the possibilities. This is why I still think a Hybrid/Hybrid Plugin is a better solution than all electric. IMO.

 

Paul

[raadsel]

Good Luck with the Trans change, you should be fine if the FORD Dealer has done this before.

 

I worry about everything being electric with the possibility of one of our enemies setting off an EMP device or Massive Solar Flare destroying everything computer controlled and the Electrical Grid. The only vehicles that would work would be carbureted which would put us back to atleast the 1970's and probably worse.  Maybe Steam Engines. :headscratch:

I still ride my bikes :), It would seem wise to have as many energy options as possible to cover all the possibilities. This is why I still think a Hybrid/Hybrid Plugin is a better solution than all electric. IMO.

 

Paul

 

The issue with that is, an EMP would kill hybrids, as well as most petroleum powered vehicles. The issue is that EMP would destroy the computers in cars -- and pretty much any car made in the last 30ish years has a computer handling many of the engine functions. And this is on top of destroying much of our financial system, since so much of it is now electronic and how little involves actual cash; the various traffic control electronics (such as stop lights). 

[ptjones]

The issue with that is, an EMP would kill hybrids, as well as most petroleum powered vehicles. The issue is that EMP would destroy the computers in cars -- and pretty much any car made in the last 30ish years has a computer handling many of the engine functions. And this is on top of destroying much of our financial system, since so much of it is now electronic and how little involves actual cash; the various traffic control electronics (such as stop lights). 

I was thinking of a situation like weather disaster with the grid going down you have much greater range with ICE than EV.

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

The Enterprise went to my :ford:  dealer today for its "new" transmission which had already arrived.  I watched temps on Forscan and by the end of the 40 min +/- trip with ambient at 48, TFT was at 121, ECT around 180, phase temps around 100 and coil temps around140F. ;)   This was driving country roads mostly near 55 mph with occasional stops - in and out of EV a lot.  So, barring EMTs :sos:  or an earlier than expected end to the ICE Age :waiting: , we should be driving our beloved C-Max again next week.  :happy feet:  Oh wow, I had about forgotten what a nice car it is to drive! :shift:   We're glad its getting fixed. :)

Edited April 1, 2019 by SnowStorm