Hello...and some questions..

[Ptcary]

First post here and from looking around it appears I am in the right place!

[raadsel]

Hi, I'm in Houston and there are several of us here in Texas. From reading your post, it sounds like you are looking at the C-Max Energi -- there are some differences between the Energi and the Hybrid that will make a difference.

For example, the Hybrid uses the engine to heat the car, but the Energi has an electric heater. So, with the Energi, use of the heater will not require the gas engine but it will lower the distance you can travel, since it is using power from the High Voltage Battery (HVB). The A/C on both the Hybrid and the Energi are powered by the HVB, rather than run by the engine using belts, so the A/C continues to run normally even while the engine is off -- but again, it will lower the distance you can travel on electric power.

 

So, the A/C is fine in the summer but it will hurt your mileage, and this is going to be true with the Hybrid or the Energi. With the heater, for the Energi the engine won't need to be on but it will lower your range. With the Hybrid, the heater will start the engine in the winter and run it more until the engine is up to normal operating temperature. After that, the hybrid will largely work as normal, the engine will largely be able to retain its heat (at least in Texas) for the few minute intervals when the engine is off.

 

Remote start for the Energi can help. As long as the car is plugged in, the heater and A/C will use the electric power to heat/cool the car to your desired interior temperature, and the battery will stay charged until you are ready to leave. With the hybrid, the ICE will likely end up turning, if for no other reason than to recharge the battery -- which typically drains fairly quickly when the climate control is blowing hard.

 

On a 21 mile commute, you should be able to make it most of the way on EV power -- though again, A/C and heating will lower your range by a few miles. If you drive efficiently, you should be able to make the 21 miles, at least from what I've heard from others, in "good" (not to hot or cold) weather. Additionally, a lot depends on how you drive and what your commute is like; not to mention, I only have the hybrid so don't have personal experience with the Energi.

 

As for engine power -- the C-Max has very good power in hybrid mode, plenty of power from 40-60 (though obviously it won't be confused with a Mustang). With the Energi, in EV only mode, it won't have as much power since it is running solely on the electric motor. My suggestion is take a test drive -- in particular, if you are wanting an Energi, make an appointment with a salesman for a test drive and have them ensure it is fully charged. That way you can test out the performance yourself.

 

As to the question of tint, yes, you want it. If you get the panoramic glass roof, I would get it tinted as, with the sun above you, a fair amount of heat comes through the roof. I got the windows tinted but not the roof and quickly realized I'd made a mistake. I'll likely put a lighter tint, but a good quality tint that blocks heat, so that I still have good visibility out of it. 

 

If I didn't explain something well enough, or you have more questions, feel free to ask. You might also, if you are looking at the Energi, ask these questions on the C-Max Energi forum (there is a link at the very top of the page).

Edited September 12, 2015 by raadsel

[hybridbear]

I'd definitely look at the Energi based on your description.

[markd]

If you have to put your foot into it, it goes! I got my car on Halloween and winter in Indianapolis is cold but since spring I've had no trouble averaging 55 mpg with the ac on. The engine will still run but the trick is to make it run as little as possible, taking off and charging the battery and hills are the only time it will run once you get used to it. I didn't like the roof because it doesn't open so we didn't get it, so I can't speak to that.

[plus 3 golfer]

First post here and from looking around it appears I am in the right place! Please be patient with all my questions.

 

I am a few months out from looking to purchase a used C-Max. Still kinda interested in an Escape too. I dont think the Energi would be ideal for me.  The biggest drawback with the Energi is rear storage capacity and price.  If you can live with the rear hatch capacity of the Energi and can buy an Energi for say no more than about $1500 more than a Hybrid, then the Energi may be for you. 

 

Just wanted to ask for everyones opinions and have some basic questions.

 

First, I live in Texas, so C-Max will have to cope with hot summers and relatively mild winters. Can someone post a primer on how the HVAC works in summer heat? Does the gas engine have to be on all the time if the a/c is on? Same with heat? How does this work with the remote start? The AC compressor is electric and runs from the High Voltage Battery (HVB).  So, the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) will charge the HVB when needed.   This is much more efficient than running a belt driven compressor with ICE.  The AC works just fine in Phoenix (as good or better than any car I've owned in 50+ years).  In the winter ICE will run in the Hybrid  to get ICE up to an operating temperature so that it can run in closed loop operation (for emission purposes).   So, for short commutes and colder weather, fuel economy will suffer.  I don't believe it matters whether you start the car remotely or not.  Everything works the same.

 

My daily commute is 21 miles each way mostly highway. If I stay under 62mph, will it stay in EV mode mostly? or will using the A/C force the gas engine to run?  With the Energi you may make it one way in EV.  The AC use will depend on temperature difference (ambient vs cabin set point), humidity, pre-cooling while plugged in, and driving time.  My guess is that for 1/2 hour of use, you might lose 1/2 mile of EV range on average.  If you can charge at work and precondition the car while plugged in (heat and cool), then the cost premium for the Energi will likely be paid back quickly over the Hybrid.

 

With the Hybrid,  EV use will cycle. Since the HVB normal operating range is rather small, one might get  1/2 - 1 mile in pure EV before ICE kicks in at 62 mph depending on topography of the highway.   If you stay under 62 mph and use hypermiling techniques you will get great FE.

 

And probably the most obvious question is engine power. I'm no leadfoot, I have a Mazda 3 5-speed and a very custom PT Cruiser that is heavy and an automatic trans. I have seen youtube videos of C-Max 0-60 but nothing of one on the highway. How is 40-60mph, like getting on the highway? I will rarely drive over 60-70mph but want enough power on the highway if needed.  Engine power is not an issue. 

 

And last, what do those of you with the glass top think about it. My parents have it on their Mustang and like it. I would prefer a regular sunroof that opens. Is the tint and shade enough for summer heat, or would it be better to add window tinting to it? IMO, forget the panoramic roof and tint the windows up to the legal tint limits in TX.  One will notice a big difference in heat gain in the cabin with good tint vs no tint.  If you park outside get a sun shield for the windshield to further limit heat gain

 

Thanks

Cary

My comments above in red. :)

Edited September 13, 2015 by Plus 3 Golfer

[C-MaxSea]

...............................  If I stay under 62mph, will it stay in EV mode mostly .......................

 

Thanks

Cary

 

Just to be clear, especially to newbie readers - the 62mph number is a meaningless number with regard to C-Max performance.  Yes that was a top-end EV limiter for the first year, but that was programed out in July of 2013.  The correct/current top-end EV limiter is 85 MPH for all C-Maxes (2013-2016) :dancing:.  Ford finally corrected their data sheets a few weeks ago ;). 

 

Also to be clear/concise;  Yes the Energi has EV (electric only) 'range' (22 miles+-).  The Hybrid essentially does not have 'range'; as PG3 notes, it cycles back & forth between EV mode (electric) and ICE mode (internal combustion engine).  For us it cycles roughly 50/50 in our topography of hills and using ECO Cruise control.  On flat terrain (& higher speeds) the ICE & EV system often operate in tandem together (not often for us).

 

Cary; If your choice is based heavily on your 21 mile commute, the Energy is a fantastic choice, especially if your work location has a charging station.  The Hybrid is a great choice if boot space is critical, and/or your primary purpose is longer distance trips.

 

Finally, both get great MPGs if you drive below 70 mph.  We have no problem getting great MPGs between 58 and 68 mphs, fair weather freeway driving. Plenty of power, super ride & handling, love the pano roof.  Happy shopping !

 

Nick

2014_CMAXHybrid_Specs.pdf

Edited September 15, 2015 by C-MaxSea

[stevedebi]

A couple of notes:

 

- The Energi heater works either on EV (uses a lot of battery), or on engine heat if the gas engine (ICE) is running.

 

- You will not get anywhere near 21 miles on an energi at Highway speeds in EV. The EV Now setting (which keeps the ICE from running) is not very efficient at speeds above 40 MPH. For highway, you would want to experiment with using EV Later (runs just like the hybrid, and reserves the high voltage battery for later ues) or occasional use of EV Auto (which allows for the HVB to kick in and assist the engine).  If you can plug in at work, then EV Auto mode all the way to work would probably net you around 70 MPG for that distance, in EV Auto).

 

- I don't think you have the state incentives in Texas that we have in CA - my Energi cost almost exaclty what the hybrid SEL would have cost. Not that important to you, but I list it for other readers - we should check for state incentives, as well as the federal incentives for purchase.

 

- For a highway commute, I'd go with the normal hybrid - the Energi shines for in-town use, but if it is mostly highway, I don't see it as worth the extra cost up front, or the 300 lbs it adds to the weight.

 

- At 65 MPH, you will most likely net around 45 MPG on a highway commute (based on my highway miles in the Energi). This figure is pretty much similar for both Energi and hybrid for a longer drive, where the larger HVB of the energy cannot really help.

[raadsel]

A couple of notes:

 

- The Energi heater works either on EV (uses a lot of battery), or on engine heat if the gas engine (ICE) is running.

 

- You will not get anywhere near 21 miles on an energi at Highway speeds in EV. The EV Now setting (which keeps the ICE from running) is not very efficient at speeds above 40 MPH. For highway, you would want to experiment with using EV Later (runs just like the hybrid, and reserves the high voltage battery for later ues) or occasional use of EV Auto (which allows for the HVB to kick in and assist the engine).  If you can plug in at work, then EV Auto mode all the way to work would probably net you around 70 MPG for that distance, in EV Auto).

 

- I don't think you have the state incentives in Texas that we have in CA - my Energi cost almost exaclty what the hybrid SEL would have cost. Not that important to you, but I list it for other readers - we should check for state incentives, as well as the federal incentives for purchase.

 

- For a highway commute, I'd go with the normal hybrid - the Energi shines for in-town use, but if it is mostly highway, I don't see it as worth the extra cost up front, or the 300 lbs it adds to the weight.

 

- At 65 MPH, you will most likely net around 45 MPG on a highway commute (based on my highway miles in the Energi). This figure is pretty much similar for both Energi and hybrid for a longer drive, where the larger HVB of the energy cannot really help.

 

There are some incentives for buying a plug-in vehicle in Texas, though there is a limited amount allocated each year. This page shows the incentives for various states; and there are additional incentives in Austin and San Antonio.

 

I believe the OP talked about buying used, however, and there are no incentives (that I'm aware of) for buying a used plug-in. OTOH, some dealers have been selling used Energi's for roughly the same price as the Hybrid -- I tend to see slightly higher prices for the Energi now, but often that is as much because of lower mileage (under 20,000 miles) and having a single owner, rather than a higher mileage rental/fleet car (30,000-50,000 miles).

Edited September 14, 2015 by raadsel

[SnowStorm]

Opinions and thoughts on "the roof":

1. We love it.
2. It is big - gives a nice airy feel (even with shade closed).
3. Roofs that open make noise and can leak (especially if you forget to close them!) so I like the fact that it is fixed
4. We close the shade when its hot and the sun is up - at which point there is a lot more heat coming in the windshield and other windows.
5. In cooler weather the roof (shade open) preheats the car wonderfully!

And A/C (not in TX but my 2C anyway):

1. We love it.
2. Best auto A/C I've ever had.
3. Uses only 250 to 500 watts after pulling down if operated properly.
4. "Proper" operation involves:
   (a) set temp to about 75
   (b) adjust fan speed as needed, turning it up rather than turning temperature down.
   © use Recirculate!!!  You don't want to keep bringing in outside air with all the extra heat and moisture.  This item is critical to efficiency.
   (d) close unused vents (like back seat and right side passenger) - you want to cool the occupant(s), not the car!
5. The variable speed compressor is how all A/C systems should work.

[Marc Smith]

cary

 

I went from a Chevy HHr to a prius to a Cmax SEL

 

My daily commute is 18 miles.  some 55mph,  but my average speed is 35

 

I've done 25 fillups, with my last ten averages 44, with a high of 50.  15,550 miles.  .066 per mile  current tank is 48 mpg

 

We get plenty hot and humid here in the Dc area.  the AC will frost your cojones.  and the seat warmer will roast them...

 

I almost wish I had gone with the energi since I'd have the ability to charge at work.  But that loss of storage space in the back was a deal breaker.

 

I went with a 35% tint all the way around.

 

its plenty peppy for the hiway highway merge  its no mustang though If you keep you foot out of the gas on the highway  Ie keep it below 65  you'll get much better mileage,  but I'm sure in texas  you'll get run over

 

One thing of note.  It takes some getting used to.  turning radius dosn't suck...  but  at times  I think I could turn a f350 longbed crew cab dually in a tighter radius...

[scottwood2]

I drive 15K a year, 90% of that in the city.  On the standard hybrid I avg 47 MPG including winter use which is lower MPG.  I get up to 75 MPG in the city driving to work and back which is 10 miles each way.  I have a place to plug in at work but I did not want the loss of space and the extra cost of getting the energy.  I see 3 C-Max's at work and none are plugin's

 

I am very happy with the standard hybrid and would buy it again.  Run the numbers on the payback to see if it is for you. 

[stevedebi]

I drive 15K a year, 90% of that in the city.  On the standard hybrid I avg 47 MPG including winter use which is lower MPG.  I get up to 75 MPG in the city driving to work and back which is 10 miles each way.  I have a place to plug in at work but I did not want the loss of space and the extra cost of getting the energy.  I see 3 C-Max's at work and none are plugin's

 

I am very happy with the standard hybrid and would buy it again.  Run the numbers on the payback to see if it is for you. 

Your commute is just about ideal. If the distance is too small, the ICE doesn't have time to warm up.

[Adrian_L]

I thought I would regret not getting the Energi, but the Hybrid is an amazingly low-effort and economical car.   And besides, what good's a hatchback if you can't fold the seat down and throw a load of Ikea boxes in there?

 

I'll second the thumbs up on the pano roof and the A/C (which doesn't sap as much MPGs as you expect)

Edited September 15, 2015 by Adrian_L