Question to Ford Tech or anybody in the know OIL Flush

[catsailor]

Have +3 years now and 51,000 miles on a GREAT Ford C Max. Had my oil changed at Jiffy lube and they recommended flushing my oil to prevent sludge. IS this something I should do or has anybody else done this or does Ford recommend it. My oil changes are at +10,000 mile increments per the dash indicator and since I have a lifetime average of 43.3 MPG (mostly highway driving too) don't know if this is something that should be done, never done this before on any other car I have owned.

 

Your thoughts.

[ls973800]

Just a way for the shop to make more money from a service you don't need.  Using the proper oil and following the intervals which are in the owner's manual will require no additional "flushing" or "cleaning" services, IMHO.

[obob]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/does-my-car-really-need-a-complete-engine-flush/article9624076/

[obob]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/flushservices.html

 

"That's why Honda issued a memo to mechanics advising them not to perform engine flushes. Other major car-makers, including Ford, General Motors, and Nissan have all issued similar advisories against the service.

Why? Over time, gummy deposits can build up inside your engine. The chemicals used for engine flush, are supposed to break up those deposits. But car-makers say, pieces of that broken up sediment can clog up other parts of the engine and ruin it."

 

"That's because Nissan and other car-makers say damage resulting from engine flushes won't be covered by your warranty."

[Adrian_L]

This is what annoys me about those quick lube places.  People who know nothing about cars (it's ok--my wife is one of those people) drive in there and get anxious when the "technician" strongly recommends an engine flush.   And people are afraid to say "no" because that implies they are going against his "expert" recommendation and risk damaging their engine. 

 

Having said that the evidence presented in the "flushing can damage your engine" article is pretty weak.  Show me 20,000 cars that died a week after the flush, not just ONE, and I might change my opinion that engine flushes are a pointless, but harmless way for JIffyLube to make money.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Adrian_L

[raadsel]

While this video is from Canada and doesn't deal with Oil Flushes, I still think it does a good job of showing what occurs at many of those shops. If you search on YouTube, you'll find plenty of other, similar, exposes of these shops -- not to say all are bad but many do suggest services that just aren't needed and a few don't do the service they charge you for. This is another case where you just need to make sure you follow the maintenance schedule found in the owner's manual.

 

As for if you need an oil flush, I will point to the users here who have had the oil tests done after oil changes, and found that the oil they change out is still relatively clean and in great shape. From everything I've seen, particularly with our engines only running a third or half the time (depending on the driving you do) you shouldn't have any issues if you just change the oil as recommended.

[scottwood2]

I would not have it done.  I have ran many cars way passed 100K miles with no issues.  In general I don't normally use synthetic oil either and never had an issue.  5K miles for normal oil changes. 

 

The C-max is different.  Synthetic is needed due to the duty cycle but with the engine on less than half the time. 10K oil changes should keep it pretty clean already.  

[BIG ROCCO]

Right - with the engine only running ~ 1/2 the time in our experience, 10K miles on the C-Max is more like 5K miles...and we use M1, so ~10K miles, when the change oil message appears, seems very safe to us

[fbov]

Let me just note that if you are interested in the quality of your oil, you should have it tested.

 

I feel my oil needs changing when the oil monitor say it does. My oil analysis shows it has lost most of it's acid buffer, and typically has a lot of fuel with a reduced flash point as a result. Viscosity is fine, additives and wear are fine, and the fuel percentage might be a lot lower after long high-speed trip. That's not how I use this car, typically less than 1/3 ICE.

 

The issue with oil in a hybrid is the high fraction of run-time below operating temperature. The engine sees all short trips at lower speeds, and never gets truly hot, especially in the next 6 months!

 

Have fun,

Frank

[BIG ROCCO]

Frank - I agree with everything you wrote, except maybe the need for oil testing, because I think that's the idea behind the oil monitor, no?  I know the monitor does not actually evaluate the oil in the crankcase, but don't you agree it does indicate the quality of the oil, based on the history of operation of that particular vehicle and extensive testing by Ford?

 

Also, our Winters in Phoenix are quite mild - maybe like your Spring and Fall in Upstate NY, so Winter driving and lack of warm-up  is not the issue here - it's Summertime temps >100 degrees every day for ~4 months - that's why I use M1, just for that added bit of extra protection

[fbov]

I know nothing about the functional design of Ford's oil monitor, so I can't comment on its operation. From my observations, it seems to be a mile counter, nothing more. Now, mileage on the oil is a good predictor of oil quality, one we've used for over 100 years.

 

That's why a mile counter may be all Ford needs... keep people from forgetting to change the oil!

 

Have fun,

Frank

[scottwood2]

I know nothing about the functional design of Ford's oil monitor, so I can't comment on its operation. From my observations, it seems to be a mile counter, nothing more. Now, mileage on the oil is a good predictor of oil quality, one we've used for over 100 years.

 

That's why a mile counter may be all Ford needs... keep people from forgetting to change the oil!

 

Have fun,

Frank

Agree, mine seems to come on right at 10K miles.  At least for the two times so far (20K on vehicle). 

[stevedebi]

I know nothing about the functional design of Ford's oil monitor, so I can't comment on its operation. From my observations, it seems to be a mile counter, nothing more. Now, mileage on the oil is a good predictor of oil quality, one we've used for over 100 years.

 

That's why a mile counter may be all Ford needs... keep people from forgetting to change the oil!

 

Have fun,

Frank

According to what I've read, it does consider the driving style. But I've never seen any documentation to support that.

[fbov]

I suspect there may be a lot of variation in oil monitor methods across auto makers and their product lines.

 

Another pointer to Ford using a "real simple" approach is that I've used different driving styles for long periods. The first year, I took the highway all winter, for the heat, which runs 60/40 ICE/EV. The next year, it was mostly rural surface roads, where the car runs more like 33/66 ICE to EV. One would think there would be a difference, but the biggest difference is the miles between the notice appearing, and the oil change.

 

And I can see where auto makers would keep quiet about it, because someone is going to blame an engine failure on a faulty oil monitor. You know they will.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[vabchusa]

I have used AMSOIL in many vehicles with great results.  I used the Signature series oil with their oil filter and observe the 25,000 mile/ 1 year change interval.  I have found that my mileage actually increased by using this.  My 37 foot motorhome with chevy 454 went from 6 1/2 to 7+ with nothing more than changing the oil.  If I change the transmission fluid should increase even a little more.  My Kia Sedona gained about 1+ mpg when I changed and it was a high mileage vehicle when I got it.

I drive lots of miles ( average 3000/ month ) as a courier, about 30% interstate 70% city.  So far on my 2015 has an average of 44.3 mpg with normal driving.