20+ days of repairs after 1.5 months of ownership

[kuklachica]

Ford Executive Office has taken over our case. For those unfamiliar, here is the background.

 

We purchased a C-Max SE on November 23rd. On November 24th, we returned to the dealership to notify them of numerous problems, including (but not limited to) misaligned panels, road noise, exposed primer, crooked hatch, loose weather stripping, and more. The dealership had the car from November 27th until December 11th. The hatch remains misaligned and paint damage is still present. We will be returning to the dealer to again ask them to address these issues.

 

On December 17th, we drove it in the rain (heavy mist) for the first time. At speeds of 45 MPH and above, there is a loud sound of dripping water in the cabin at the front of the car. It is very pronounced and can be heard clearly during normal vehicle operation. We brought the car to Brunswick Ford service department where the service manager and two technicians also heard the trickling sound. They were unable to locate the leak. The next step is to remove the dashboard and adjacent trim. The manager stated that they may not be able to find the source since the necessary speed and weather conditions cannot be reproduced in the shop. He also mentioned the risk of mold growth if the leak was unable to be located. Brunswick Ford service manager has been WONDERFUL to work with (the complete opposite of our experience with the selling dealership). Recording of the dripping sound here https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw4qlYfTlmbGWVI2OHhaSF9pYlE

 

The regional rep and her assistants were rude and unresponsive. The selling dealership did not communicate with us at all regarding the repairs. We had to hire a lawyer in order to get them to update us on the status of the repairs (they didn't even start the repairs until the 6th day the vehicle was in their possession). We asked for a letter confirming that the car was not in an accident at the dealership or in transit (in case we are asked at a future trade in). They agreed in exchange for not filing a complaint with the state. Over a month later and we still have not received a letter.

 

Ford executive office is now handling the case. They have arranged for a field service engineer consult. We were told he would be inspecting the car on Tuesday 1/12. We dropped it off Monday night. He didn't show up on Tuesday, nor did he call the dealership. Same thing today (Wednesday). I wondered if maybe he had to drive a Ford two hours to get here, which would explain being MIA. When the service manager finally got a hold of our contact at the executive office, she called the engineer. Apparently he thought he was supposed to look at the car tomorrow (Thursday). I am not even surprised anymore with what Ford manages to mishandle.

 

We will be pursuing a lemon law claim after this visit. I have done/am doing everything within my ability to secure a replacement vehicle. Thus far, it has been like getting blood from a stone. Now that we have reached our state's lemon law days-out-of-service threshold, we will take the next step to move forward with the legal claim. This experience has really made me think twice about even wanting to stay with Ford. I can't even imagine the next 10 years of Ford ownership (typical length we own a car before buying new).

 

Attached is the log of service visits thus far. It is currently in the shop again for an undetermined length of time.

[Marc Smith]

You car must have been built on a monday after a big football weekend...

[kuklachica]

Nope, on a Tuesday, but not shipped until the first shipment after Labor Day.

[hybridbear]

I'm glad you're finally pursuing a lemon law claim. Forget the C-Max and buy a PHEV like the Volt. It's a far better car.

[kuklachica]

The engineer finally showed up on Thursday. Apparently he can't meet with the owner, or even tell the service manager any details because, to quote him, "they may try to bribe me." (eye roll). He inspected it for about 3 hours. The only thing he did tell the service manager was that he did find things that were on my list and were problematic. So, what this means for Ford's next move, I'm not sure. We are supposed to learn about his findings on Tuesday. I really want to move on to another manufacturer, but we are in a difficult situation and may not have any options other than whatever Ford offers us. I won't be replacing it with a C-Max, however. I have been encouraged to choose a different model by a friend who is in a position to know Ford quality, inside and out. He confirmed my hesitation with jumping back on the C-Max bandwagon. 

[Marc Smith]

for every bad car,  there are plenty more that have had no problems.  and for every bad dealer there are quite a few that do not rip off their customers.

 

Id have no qualms about buying another c-max or a fusion hybrid.  I had some problems with my saturn Vue hybrid.  it sat in the dealership waiting for a battery for almost three months.  got GM corporate involved and even faxed them  filled out forms for a buy back/lemon.  it got them in gear pretty quick.  that was 50K miles ago.  wife still loves the car, and it will probably become my daughters car.  But I'll never buy another GM product based on the way that they did their chapter 11 bankruptcy filing.  Killed my great grandfathers, grandfathers, and uncles 95 year old GM dealership.

 

But in the end you gotta do what your gut tells you.  Otherwise  you'll never be happy.

[Adrian_L]

I'm glad you're finally pursuing a lemon law claim. Forget the C-Max and buy a PHEV like the Volt. It's a far better car.

 

So why exactly are you on the forum if you (a) apparently dislike the C-max and (b) don't even own one?

Just curious....

[hybridbear]

So why exactly are you on the forum if you (a) apparently dislike the C-max and (b) don't even own one?

Just curious....

We have a Fusion Energi which has the same powertrain & my parents have a C-Max Energi. I quite like the powertrain & the packaging of the C-Max. In 2013 it was one of the best available options. We almost bought a C-Max instead of a Fusion, but ultimately chose the Fusion because my wife says the C-Max looks like an old person car. However, it's now 2016 & Ford has done nothing to improve these cars. They just released the 2017 Fusion & admitted that they have not made improvements to the EV range. Thus they now lag behind their competitors & I no longer recommend them. Back in 2013-2014 I recommended these cars to everyone I could.

[Adrian_L]

Funny---we traded in an Audi A6 (the basic shape and dimensions are almost identical to a Fusion)  We deliberately chose the C-max because (in my wife's words) "we don't need another Buick".   However, you're probably getting better than my previous 18 mpg. 

 

What "improvements" are you referring to?  Did you think the 2015 C-max would get 55 mpg and the 2016 C-max would get 65?   While obviously some cars get a major re-design every so oftern (Honda Civic for example), it isn't going to happen to a car that was just launched in 2013.    I have no comment on the '17 Fusion as this is not the Fusion forum.

[kuklachica]

For me it would have been something better than the turning radius of a hippopautamus.

[kuklachica]

See the resemblance?

Edited January 20, 2016 by kuklachica

[Marc Smith]

I think a school bus can make a tighter U turn than a C-max

[stevedebi]

I think a school bus can make a tighter U turn than a C-max

Yeah, I've always wondered about that one. My Ford Escape Hybrid turned (slightly) shorter! Yes, it makes it ride better because of the longer wheelbase, but come on!

 

I sometimes wonder if the wheelbase isn't because it is shared with the Euro model, which comes in a "grand" version that is longer.

[Adrian_L]

The C-max's turning circle isn't something I lose sleep over. 

 

Other than minor tweaks and fixes, I'd like to know why someone would think Ford has dropped the ball between the 2013 and 2016 models.

[Marc Smith]

Adrian,

 

I've gotten used to it.  After several months in the prius, when I bought the C-max it was very noticeable...  The UK version of the cmax,  turns 3ft tighter.  not much different  but    still wierd...

[Kelleytoons]

I always laugh when anyone says "I'll never buy another [something] from that [something maker] again!".

 

In my MANY years of car ownership, if I ever felt this way there wouldn't be any makers I could frequent.  As someone else observed, there are lemons everywhere, and in point of fact the "World According to Garp" theory is correct -- you are far more likely NOT to ever get a bad C-Max again then trying any other car or maker (because the odds of getting two in a row are astronomical).

 

But as that same person also mentioned, you need to feel good about whatever you end up, whatever that means.  Just don't look for sympathy on a forum where the vast majority of us wouldn't want any other car (my only worry is they will stop making them when I buy our next one, which will be five years or so from now).

Edited January 20, 2016 by Kelleytoons

[Adrian_L]

Good points. 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/12/18/why-is-ford-increasing-focus-on-electric-vehicles/#2715e4857a0b567fbbd51cc6

 

"Ford is adding 13 new electrified vehicles to its portfolio by 2020"

 

That doesn't sound like Ford is dragging it's heels on the electro-car technology front.  Or lagging behind the competition. 

 

I seem to remember there was a similar article on CNN.com a week or two back.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Adrian_L

[kuklachica]

It's not so much the car itself, but the experience we've had dealing with corporate. I never will willing put myself in a position of ever having to possibly deal with Ford hierarchy again. No car is worth dealing with such irresponsibility. The tipping point came with the engineer's findings. Here is a summary of my conversation with the Ford "exec", which I sent for documentation purposes. She has not responded to correct any of my details. I am not copying it here to change anyone's mind, just to show the reason for my frustration. I am not proud of the tone and sarcasm in my email. I was extremely frustrated. She did not look over the original 15 days of repairs, so her decision was made based on evaluating the issues as isolated events. We do not have the money, time, nor is my health strong enough to pursue a lemon law claim. I don't want a Ford replacement anyway, so it's just not worth my limited energy.

 

Ford's current recommendations:

1. Realign rear right door
2. Realign hatch
3. Realign hood
4. Ignore water leak
5. Ignore excessive body flex (most likely the cause of alignment issues)

If recommended repairs are completed:

Number of doors realigned: 3
Hatch realigned: Twice
Hood realigned: once
Fender realigned: once
Bent c pillar repaired: once
Water leak repaired: NO
Body flex addressed: NO

Ford is recommending that a door, hatch, and hood be re-aligned. Previous repairs have already included opposite door re-alignment and hatch re-alignment. In the first 18 days of ownership, it required 15 days of re-alignments and paint repairs. Now our vehicle requires additional days for re-alignment. When I asked if it is within Ford’s quality standards to require over 20 days of re-alignment and paint work beginning at 79 miles and within 2 months of ownership, you said that it is all under warranty. I take this as a yes.

Ford is unwilling to find the water leak that can be clearly heard under normal vehicle operation. They are unwilling because the water is not collecting in an easy-to-find location. You stated that the leak is not a concern, then later stated the opposite that water leaks are not characteristics of any vehicle (referring to the Ford Edge recall). Your lack of concern is contrary to the opinions I have received from several body shop technicians, car dealers, and ---- Ford. We have been warned of rust, mold, and damaged side-curtain airbags. Ford encourages me to continue driving the car until these issues manifest themselves, regardless of the fatal consequences that rusted metal and rotted airbags will have.

It is clear that Ford’s mission: “improving quality is a daily priority at Ford….Ford always aims to increase customer satisfaction” is little more than hyperbole. The opposite is true. It seems that it is not uncommon for Ford to ship poorly assembled vehicles and require owners to make repeated trips to dealerships to repair Ford’s poor quality workmanship. We bought a Subaru Forester two days prior to the C-Max. We have not had to make one trip for service or repairs. Apparently I set my expectations for Ford ownership too high.

We also request compensation for our car being out-of-service for 23 business days. Neither of the loaners we were given had the features that we paid extra for in our C-Max. We have been paying for features that have been unavailable to us for a significant portion of our ownership. Our last loaner was not a hybrid.

Please see below for my understanding of the Field Service Engineer’s findings. Please advise if I have remembered something incorrectly. We requested to meet with the FSE to show him these issues in person, but were denied. We request a copy of the FSE report.

 

1. Dripping/trickling sound coming from front of car at 45+ MPH with active precipitation.

The FSE could not reproduce this because there was no precipitation. The service department could not find a wet area inside the car when the problem was active. The service manager and two technicians all heard the trickling noise. However, it is Ford’s position that because no damp area was located in the car, the leak does not warrant further investigation. You also stated that you did not hear the sound in the recording (you are the first person not to hear it). When I mentioned that it could be leaking behind the A pillar trim, into the dash, under the carpet, or into the side-curtain airbags, you were not concerned with this. When I asked if I am supposed to wait until the car becomes moldy, rusts out, or the airbags fail before Ford will address the issue, you offered me an extended warranty. It is my understanding that Ford will not investigate the leak any further because it requires too much labor, and encourage me to ignore the leak until it causes health or safety problems. An extended warranty is redundant in this situation. We froze our express warranty rights by bringing the vehicle on 12/17/15 by notifying the dealer of the leak with approximately 1000 miles. 

2. Loud road/wind noise, especially on drivers side at 45+ MPH

The FSE said that this could not be reproduced.

3. Inconsistent alignment gaps between hatch and body sides (pointed out to us by Scott, owner of Hillside Collision Center in Waldoboro). The hatch had previously been significantly out of alignment and cockeyed. Inconsistent gaps still remain after repairs.

Unsure what FSE findings were for this.

4. ** Noticeable body flex resulting in altered panel gaps. **Body panel gaps are altered depending on the ground the car is parked on. Minor changes in terrain cause doors to close more difficultly and hatch gaps to shift.

The FSE could only reproduce this when parking two wheels on a curb. We had the same results when parking in our garage and then parking in our paved driveway (flat terrain).

5. Rear passenger side door is not flush with body panel


Ford has offered to re-align this door. (This would be the second door that needed alignment. Both rear doors have been mis-aligned and difficult to close).

6. Gouges behind hatch hinges not present until repairs were made at Prime Ford

FSE was able to find these.

7. Rough/gritty paint near right hatch hinge that was not repaired by Prime Ford.

FSE stated he could not find this spot, despite the above picture.

8. Hood out of alignment, pointed out to us by the collision center. One side was resting flush on the headlight. We adjusted the hood bumpers but still cannot align it evenly.

FSE found this and Ford has recommended re-aligning it.

[kostby]

It's not so much the car itself, but the experience we've had dealing with corporate. I never will willing put myself in a position of ever having to possibly deal with Ford hierarchy again. No car is worth dealing with such irresponsibility...

 

You must lead an extremely difficult and stressful life. Succeeding in making other people's lives miserable does absolutely nothing to solve your own issues, and likely causes you even greater stress when others react negatively to you and your own negativity. Sincerely hope you find whatever it is you're so desperately searching for.

Edited January 21, 2016 by kostby

[kuklachica]

Expecting others to do their jobs correctly is making their lives miserable? Does everyone who refuses to give their money to Chick-Fil-A lead a stressful, difficult life? Are they making the lives of Chick-Fil-A executives miserable? Or is boycotting Chick-Fil-A principled? I have lead a difficult life this past year, thank you. We had to leave our house and all of our belongings because we discovered rot in the walls from bad construction 10 years earlier (we are second owners). We have no legal recourse whatsoever and have lost everything and do not have a home. When I discovered my car had similar manufacturing issues and a leak, I sure as heck was not going to sit back and wait to find our how bad it was. Thank goodness for all those who made Ford "miserable" and paved the way for recalls, even when Ford dismissed their complaints. This is not public school. I'm not obligated to go to one dealer who sells one brand because I live in a certain part of town. I can give my money to whomever for whatever I want. And I will be happy when I have a car that isn't at the dealer every 8 days and the manufacturer telling me to pretend the problems do not exist.

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, but I'm still wondering why you are here.  It doesn't really instruct us in anything, because EVERY car maker will act like this.  They are in the business of making money, not in making people happy (regardless of how their PR department tries to spin it).  I've seen it from Dodge, from Chevy, from Toyota, from Honda and from Jeep (back when they were independent of Dodge).  I'd had equally bad experiences with all of them and as I said, if I let this kind of aggravation keep me from a car maker, I'd be riding a horse (and car dealerships are *this* close to being as unscrupulous as politicians and lawyers, and that's saying something).

 

But regardless of your own feelings and what you want to do next, we can't help you here.  So do yourself a favor (and I mean that in the kindest possible way) and don't waste your time complaining on this forum.  Move on, and hopefully the next car experience you have will be much better (just don't buy anything from those makers I mentioned if you want to be SURE you won't have the same problems).

[kuklachica]

I had been here for help when I was trying to figure out what was wrong with the car. I thought I'd give an update to the situation. I know I have found it very helpful when searching for topics and being able to see the outcome rather than wondering "what was the resolution?". There have been other people with the same leak problem who posted in this forum, but never posted the outcome and Ford's solution. At least others with these defects will see how Ford has handled the situation in the past. My parents had three blown Explorere engines in under 2,000 miles and Ford shrugged their shoulders. Same response in our situation. I have owned Toyotas, Nissan, Volvo, and Subaru. They have all been in for service in 20 years less than our Ford has in two monts. I'm willing to take the chance on a different brand at this point. My own personal preference; I don't expect my story to influence anyone else.

Thank you to those who have actually provided advice; your suggestions were very helpful.

Edited January 21, 2016 by kuklachica

[kuklachica]

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5043-running-water-sound-upper-front-right-windshield-a-pillar-area/

[Adrian_L]

I think the good thing about this forum is that we show the wide spectrum of C-max experiences.  The good, the bad and the (rarely) ugly.  I'm genuinly sorry that this individual seems to have been sold a lemon, but he admitted that he bought the car from a bullying salesman who did not want to show him the car he really wanted.  He got swindled, and he has his own lack of assertiveness to blame for that.  My mother-in-law has signed up for stupid cell phone plans or deals because she didn't want to "make the salesperson mad" after the salesperson "gave so much of his time".  It's her daughter who has to waste a half-day trying to get a refund.

 

Having said that---it's a free country.  Other members (a minority I should add) have related their nightmare experiences dealing with mysterious car ailments that dealerships were unable to find.  If anyone feels uncomfortable reading these complaints--move on!

[kuklachica]

She. And, yes, I learned about car salesmen the hard way.

 

Ford just called and has offered a refund. Thank you again to those who had words of advice while we were navigating this situation.