Ford Model E to replace C-Max (reports)

[djc]

Ford will replace the C-Max with an electric vehicle to be named the "Model E".   Production begins Sept 2019, according to source AutoForecast Solutions.  The Model E will be built alongside the Focus at the new Ford Mexico plant.

 

Reported here:

 

http://gas2.org/2016/04/06/ford-build-model-e-mexico/

 

and in video report here:

 

(Ford news begins at approx 3:30)


 

[stevedebi]

So, as expected, the 2016 is the final C-Max. The new one is a sedan, and not as tall from what I've read.

[kostby]

If the Model E won't start production until Sept 2019, that would be a called 2020 or even an early 2021 model.

 

Depending upon when the Michigan Assembly Plant switches over to Ranger production, C-MAX could potentially survive the 2017, 2018, and even 2019 model years.

But don't hold your breath...

 

Hmm, Model E rhymes with Model T.

Coincidence?

Probably, since about 95% of those who would instantly understand a 'Model T' connection were born before 1960, and they are likely NOT shopping for a better Prius.

 

BTW: Hope the mandate has gone out that Ford marketing geniuses and engineers in charge SHALL NOT suggest the new Model E is a Prius-fighter.

That and using Fusion Hybrid EPA numbers were the kiss-of-death to the C-MAX. 

It upsets the alleged car testers over at the alleged Consumers Union magazine.

[ptjones]

This is plain dumb, there won't be a small minivan/hatchback left. ;)  What are these people thinking. :headscratch:  :shrug:  :confused:  :sad:

 

Paul

[raadsel]

This is plain dumb, there won't be a small minivan/hatchback left. ;)  What are these people thinking. :headscratch:  :shrug:  :confused:  :sad:

 

Paul

 

I have to agree with this. Kia/Hyundai seems to be doing something really smart here; they have the Hyundai Ioniq which seems to be targeted directly at the Prius, they also have Kia, using the same powertrain and frame, making the Niro, so they also have a CUV styled vehicle. I'm really interested to see the final EPA numbers, the driveability/comfort of these cars, and the final price. Additionally, it seems like they may have intentionally styled the Ioniq to look "normal", for the people who don't want to shout, "I'm driving a hybrid" -- particularly since most of those would likely buy a Prius anyway, as a status symbol.

 

I suspect my next car may end up being a Kia Niro.

[Kelleytoons]

Yup, might be mine as well (however, IF we get a model year 2018 C-Max I'd buy that -- don't think I can afford a new car before then).

 

The lure of the C-Max to me is the mini-SUV build.  I will NOT be buying a sedan ever again in my lifetime (that's non-negotiable - I'll go to gas if necessary).

[stevedebi]

If the Model E won't start production until Sept 2019, that would be a called 2020 or even an early 2021 model.

 

Depending upon when the Michigan Assembly Plant switches over to Ranger production, C-MAX could potentially survive the 2017, 2018, and even 2019 model years.

But don't hold your breath...

 

Hmm, Model E rhymes with Model T.

Coincidence?

Probably, since about 95% of those who would instantly understand a 'Model T' connection were born before 1960, and they are likely NOT shopping for a better Prius.

 

BTW: Hope the mandate has gone out that Ford marketing geniuses and engineers in charge SHALL NOT suggest the new Model E is a Prius-fighter.

That and using Fusion Hybrid EPA numbers were the kiss-of-death to the C-MAX. 

It upsets the alleged car testers over at the alleged Consumers Union magazine.

I seem to recall that the plant is closing in 2018. So there will be a gap before the Model E comes in. They can't produce the car when the plant in Michigan is being converted. But that means there should be a 2017 C-Max. I still haven't heard of one coming out.

[djc]

I wouldn't be surprised if these dates get revised.  At any rate there should be a 2018 C-Max, introduced next year and produced at least until summer 2018 in Michigan.  It is not clear what happens then - C-Max continues in production for one year in Mexico, or C-max hybrid ends and there is a year gap until Model E production begins Fall 2019.  Or maybe that 2019 date is just wrong.

 

With an aging population I expect there will be similar easy-access efficient vehicles available from multiple makers.  Some EV or hybrid models will have electric motors on both axles and so may call themselves SUVs or crossovers.  The Kia Niro does look promising.  Tesla may enter this segment.  The new larger Honda Fit is similar in body to the C-max; Honda could "hybridize" it.  Ford could do the same with a future Escape revision. Subaru should eventually produce a less-mild hybrid Crosstrek tall wagon to boost its fleet mpg numbers.  GM may resurrect an EV Vibe variant.  I am not worried about being able to find future choices with many of the C-max virtues. 

 

One technology that seems relevant and feasible to these segments would be adjustable road clearance.  I haven't seen that being explored.  An ARC vehicle could be fuel efficient on the highway and on good dry roads yet offer SUV benefits as needed in snow belt and mild off road.

 

Edit: well, I see "height adjusting suspensions" are being used to improve aerodynamics and handling on a handful of cars, and access on others - and that adjustable height was banned by the Feds from 1974-1981 under stringent uniform bumper height regulations.    I knew about the way-cool hydraulics laden 1954 Citroen DS.  But I didn't know that some early Subaru had a similar feature . 

Current vehicles listed at Wikipedia as having "variable height suspensions" include some Ford Expedition, Mercedes, 2011+ Jeep Grand Cherokee, Audi A8, and Tesla S.  So one EV and no hybrids.  Yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_adjustable_suspension

Edited April 9, 2016 by djc

[wrcfocus]

The Kia Niro will be similar to the C-Max, but the 6-speed dual clutch automatic transmission seems like a poor choice considering all the trouble Ford has and is still going through with their dual clutch automatic's in the Fiesta and Focus. I hope that I am wrong and the Niro won't suffer the same problem.

[Noah Harbinger]

So, as expected, the 2016 is the final C-Max. The new one is a sedan, and not as tall from what I've read.

 

I both like the tallness and dislike it. That drag coefficient and cross-section size are murder on highway mileage.

[raadsel]

 

The Kia Niro will be similar to the C-Max, but the 6-speed dual clutch automatic transmission seems like a poor choice considering all the trouble Ford has and is still going through with their dual clutch automatic's in the Fiesta and Focus. I hope that I am wrong and the Niro won't suffer the same problem.

 

While Hyundai/Kia had issues with their dual clutch initially, when first introduced in the Veloster, they seem to have fixed the issues. It is expected that it will work even better in the hybrids, as the electric motor will be used to prevent the roughness that DCTs typically have starting from a complete stop. I'm not sure how but Hyundai seems to have avoided many of the issues Ford had (both automakers were using dry DCTs). They've also avoided most of the issues that VW experienced, though VW is using a wet DCT (likely to allow using the DCT with higher performance engines), which has higher maintenance costs.

 

I suspect Hyundai's success is based on focusing solely on making a reliable DCT, rather than try to develop a CVT. By contrast, Ford worked on creating both CVTs and DCTs and, I suspect, were less successful with the DCT because of the split focus -- particularly as they found more success with CVTs.

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, the CVT is another thing I'm not sure I'm willing to give up -- so I may have some real issues finding a CUV with a CVT (hmmm,  I sense a song in there somewhere :>).

 

If they do make a 2018 C-Max I might still be able to find a new one on a lot somewhere in 2019.  Here's hoping.

[jdbob]

Current vehicles listed at Wikipedia as having "variable height suspensions" include some Ford Expedition, Mercedes, 2011+ Jeep Grand Cherokee, Audi A8, and Tesla S.  So one EV and no hybrids.  Yet.

 

Tesla Model X also has variable height suspension.

[ptjones]

Tesla Model X also has variable height suspension.

But does it have a hatchback? ;)

 

Paul

[Marc Smith]

yup.  but you rear passengers cannot have any legs...

 

http://cdn.ecomento.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Tesla-Model-X-trunk-capacity.jpg

Edited April 11, 2016 by Marc Smith

[ptjones]

yup.  but you rear passengers cannot have any legs...

 

http://cdn.ecomento.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Tesla-Model-X-trunk-capacity.jpg

Not very convenient Ouch! Maybe take the seats out, but that doesn't work unless you can leave them at home. ;)

 

Paul

[djc]

I both like the tallness and dislike it. That drag coefficient and cross-section size are murder on highway mileage.

 

According to EPA at current gas prices (they say that is $2.07) the C-max annual fuel cost is $800 whereas the Fusion hybrid is $750.  So $50 difference for an average mix of hwy and city driving.   I drive less than 15k miles so the difference for me is less than that, maybe $25-$30.   I tried both C-max and Fusion and the C-max was easier to get in and out of, had better visibility, and felt less confining / claustrophobic.  Ease of hauling the occasional office chair, 2x6",  or antique this or that is another C-max plus.  So for me C-max was the better choice.  But I gather from the sales figures most buyers have different priorities.  It will be interesting to see how the Ioniq and hybrid RAV-4 sales go.

 

C-max is 6" taller than Fusion.    Drag coefficient reported to be .30 vs. .27.    So about 10% difference in each parameter.

 

You can compare fuel costs here, and by clicking "personalize" at the bottom adjust city / hwy mix and total number of miles driven:

 

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33010&id=33083

[raadsel]

According to EPA at current gas prices (they say that is $2.07) the C-max annual fuel cost is $800 whereas the Fusion hybrid is $750.  So $50 difference for an average mix of hwy and city driving.   I drive less than 15k miles so the difference for me is less than that, maybe $25-$30.   I tried both C-max and Fusion and the C-max was easier to get in and out of, had better visibility, and felt less confining / claustrophobic.  Ease of hauling the occasional office chair, 2x6",  or antique this or that is another C-max plus.  So for me C-max was the better choice.  But I gather from the sales figures most buyers have different priorities.  It will be interesting to see how the Ioniq and hybrid RAV-4 sales go.

 

C-max is 6" taller than Fusion.    Drag coefficient reported to be .30 vs. .27.    So about 10% difference in each parameter.

 

You can compare fuel costs here, and by clicking "personalize" at the bottom adjust city / hwy mix and total number of miles driven:

 

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33010&id=33083

 

There are a few hybrids whose sales figures will be interesting. Starting with the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, which now has over 13 cu ft of trunk space and fold down rear seats (battery is under floor of trunk). Then, beyond the Hyundai Ioniq (hatchback) and Toyota Rav 4, we'll be seeing the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid (minivan) and Kia Niro (CUVish). It will also be interesting to see how the Chevy Malibu Hybrid does.

[markd]

I have had my car for seventeen months and have spent a grant total of $378 dollars for gas.

[djc]

hide that gas syphon, markd.

 

I have had my car for seventeen months and have spent a grant total of $378 dollars for gas.

 

Hide that gas syphon, markd.  ;)

[mtta]

I have to agree with this. Kia/Hyundai seems to be doing something really smart here; they have the Hyundai Ioniq which seems to be targeted directly at the Prius, they also have Kia, using the same powertrain and frame, making the Niro, so they also have a CUV styled vehicle. I'm really interested to see the final EPA numbers, the driveability/comfort of these cars, and the final price. Additionally, it seems like they may have intentionally styled the Ioniq to look "normal", for the people who don't want to shout, "I'm driving a hybrid" -- particularly since most of those would likely buy a Prius anyway, as a status symbol.

 

I suspect my next car may end up being a Kia Niro.

 

+1

 

[stevedebi]

+1

 

If I decide to walk away from my lease, that car will be on my look list.

[tr7driver]

I had a hard time finding a car in that picture.

[stevedebi]

I had a hard time finding a car in that picture.

What, there is something besides a car in the photo???!!?

[djc]

Ford CEO Fields told analysts yesterday that Ford will have a competitive 200 mile electric vehicle  - likely a version of the Model E:

 

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/227542-model-e-now-ford-plans-a-200-mile-electric-vehicle