HVB and EV+ Mode: What is the relationship?

[markd]

That's awesome!

[livesmith]

Just filled up, 788mi. total, 530mi. EV 68% EV, 58MPG and 50% city. :shift:  You would be hard pressed to do that in a Prius, let alone a Prius V. :yahoo:

 

Paul

 

Eh, It might take a bit of effort to get that mileage out of a Prius(though I've heard the current generation is now in the 60's).  But I'd also guarantee that you're not driving your C-Max like a "normal" person and are hypermiling to get that sort of mileage.  And you are doing excellent at it.  The only time I could get that out of my Energi was while constantly shifting to N down hills without stops at the bottom and setting the cruise to 25mph.  

 

My Energi is lucky to clear 35mpg in hybrid mode under anything resembling normal driving around here.  But I live in hilly areas with 55 or 65mph speed limits most of the time.  I've seen it as low as 25mpg but with the bigger battery and EV mode(and dropping the speed from 55 back to 30mph up a few hills) I've got my average up to about 58mpge which does beat my roughly 42mpg overall average of out of my 12 year old Prius at a bit higher speeds.

[livesmith]

Keep in mind that 20% on an Energi Battery would be a much higher % in a hybrid battery in terms of energy available.

 

I haven't driven a Prius, but I have a hard time imagining it being much smoother transition than my 2015 C-Max Energi.  In my car, if I don't mention it, my passengers can't tell when the engine starts, or if it is running or not, unless I am accelerating up an on-ramp or something similar that brings the rpms up considerably.

 

From reading this thread, it appears that Energi drivers have a slightly different perception of the primary benefit of EV+ than Hybrid drivers do.  I think the Energi drivers focus on not starting the ICE is because they commonly drive for days or weeks without starting the ICE.  In an Energi, creeping into the driveway in EV+ with half of the Hybrid portion of the battery consumed, but without starting the ICE, creates a curious euphoria that I have never experienced in a hybrid, ICE car, or BEV.  It's like you just won a hard level on a video game :-)

 

Yes, the percentage levels would have large differences in actual amounts of power left between the 2 batteries, but I'd think the voltage levels would similar as far as percentages go.  Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

I think there may be some variances in the C-Maxes or maybe it's just more noticeable due to the bigger power outputs from the C-Max.  They are just 2 differently behaving cars.  The C-Max doesn't usually seem bad, but there have been occasions when it seems like it lugged a bit to get away from a start in hybrid mode.  Not exactly bad, just not quite smooth.  I had another time when I topped up the battery at someone's house at the top of a hill.  On the way back down the car was REALLY acting funky with 100% charge and trying to balance out regen, spinning the ICE, braking, etc.

The Prius is more like you start out and the ICE starts up and it just revs up and stays there till you reach speed but doesn't seem to have the *slight* jerkiness I've noticed in the C-Max.  And if you fill the battery, the ICE just stays spinning for a while where I got the impression the C-Max was trying to stop spinning the ICE sooner which made for a lot more coming and going as I was stopping at intersections going down a hill and maxed out.

 

I've only driven my Energi maybe a handful of times without starting the engine during the day.  It just can't handle my 25 miles with some elevation on battery only.  I dunno, EV+ just seems like an extension of the usual hybrid game if you're trying to hyper mile or otherwise keep it in EV mode as long as possible.  I've done the same thing with my Prius.  How gently can I keep that accelerator to keep it from turning on the ICE...(and the Prius is a lot more likely to start the ICE than the C-Max)...

[ptjones]

Eh, It might take a bit of effort to get that mileage out of a Prius(though I've heard the current generation is now in the 60's).  But I'd also guarantee that you're not driving your C-Max like a "normal" person and are hypermiling to get that sort of mileage.  And you are doing excellent at it.  The only time I could get that out of my Energi was while constantly shifting to N down hills without stops at the bottom and setting the cruise to 25mph.  

 

My Energi is lucky to clear 35mpg in hybrid mode under anything resembling normal driving around here.  But I live in hilly areas with 55 or 65mph speed limits most of the time.  I've seen it as low as 25mpg but with the bigger battery and EV mode(and dropping the speed from 55 back to 30mph up a few hills) I've got my average up to about 58mpge which does beat my roughly 42mpg overall average of out of my 12 year old Prius at a bit higher speeds.

I have driven my Daughter's 2011 Prius on a few trips and drove a 2016 Prius at Car Show, nicer interior, but Ugly exterior.( slightly better performance and handling than 2011 Prius, still no CMAX.) :sad:  You are right I work on getting the best MPG's I can, It's Fun, which includes Grill Covers, wheel covers, Premium Gas and 50psi tire pressure.  I believe these mods are worth 5-6mpg.  With temps above 85*F at 45mph I should be getting 75mpg and my record tank was on a trip around FL where I went 922mi. on 13.5gal and 68.3mpg which will give you an idea what's possible. :) BTW the Energi does weigh 250+ pounds more than an Hybrid CMAX. :)

 

Paul

[agilix]

What does POC stand for in your post ?

 

Sorry, I meant Pre-Owned Certified. I did purchase mine in New York, and the dealer mentioned that NY State has better waranty than other states (in terms of lemon law, but not sure about HVB). The car had some scretches and tiny dents, and that was why it was priced quite low. I also purchased exterted waranty for the sake of all the electric gadges. (One of the shade/mirrow lights is already off!)

 

BTW, I think a lot of discussions here are very valuable. I tend to believe EV+ is more than saving gas off ICE, and does contribute to logivity of HVB in the long term. The "cold" start after "longer" parking especially makes sense for HVB recharging. I guess I need to figure out the exact SOC of my battery using some of the special tools mentioned here.

[fbov]

BS on what part?

 

Show me some information anywhere that EV+ is anything at all towards battery longevity...  I've certainly not seen it......

...I've got an Energi...

...And Toyota does use some Li-Ion in Prius' it's just not the majority of them.

Yes, Toyota's plug-in has always been Li-ion, and they've started switching the rest of the line over. There were none on the market at C-Max introduction. 

 

As to the rest... I think you're a great example of Ford's success with the feature. You even quoted he right piece; the mental attitude they wanted to engender in their owners: " '... we'd try to turn the engine off more.' " Imagine if Consumer's Union had had a clue how to do this... perhaps they failed to view the piece you linked. That piece is "marketing" where you never tell your real intentions

 

The BS is the unsupported opinion that: "EV+ is not about being good to your battery for storage at all."

 

I explained how it works, but you've ignored that. Need I add that Ford's engineers are smart? That Ford keeps the important stuff - intellectual property - secret. 

 

And you've got an Energi! That disqualifies your opinions regarding EV+ operation. You've never used it. 

 

But you can't see that either. That's why I called BS. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

Edited August 23, 2016 by fbov

[tr7driver]

I've got an energi and I use EV+ all the time.

[stevedebi]

Just another possibility. They may have implemented EV+ for the Energi, and then decided to leave it in for the hybrid as well. In either case, they planned for the battery effects.

 

Also just a note, the latest Prius upper range models also use LiIon, not NiMh.

[tr7driver]

I have EV+ on my Fusion Hybrid as well.

[livesmith]

Yes, Toyota's plug-in has always been Li-ion, and they've started switching the rest of the line over. There were none on the market at C-Max introduction. 

 

As to the rest... I think you're a great example of Ford's success with the feature. You even quoted he right piece; the mental attitude they wanted to engender in their owners: " '... we'd try to turn the engine off more.' " Imagine if Consumer's Union had had a clue how to do this... perhaps they failed to view the piece you linked. That piece is "marketing" where you never tell your real intentions

 

The BS is the unsupported opinion that: "EV+ is not about being good to your battery for storage at all."

 

I explained how it works, but you've ignored that. Need I add that Ford's engineers are smart? That Ford keeps the important stuff - intellectual property - secret. 

 

And you've got an Energi! That disqualifies your opinions regarding EV+ operation. You've never used it. 

 

But you can't see that either. That's why I called BS. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

So what you're saying is that EV+ is NOT actually what Ford says it is, but instead has a secret agenda that can not be revealed and therefore not proven.

 

I'm not saying that it IS or is NOT good for the battery, just that I've yet to see any evidence to such a thing.  And I can't fathom why Ford would want to keep that a secret...

 

Sorry buddy but I use EV+ every single day I take my Energi out.  I've owned it for about 8 months now and I think there may have been about 3 times in total when I had some special short range trip where I had enough battery left to make it home.  Every day on my usual commute home about 3-5 miles in the EV portion is done, the ICE kicks in and I'm in pretty much the same hybrid mode as you and when I get to the last half mile-ish with the ICE running, EV+ shows up on the dash and it increases the tolerance (which you can see in the meter) for how much EV it will let you use before kicking the ICE back on.

 

For that matter, if you truly believe that Ford has a secret(and why on earth would they want to keep items to make your battery last longer a secret?) agenda to promote battery longevity by lowering the battery charge while parked then take a look at the Energi.  Why does the car provide no option whatsoever to stop charging at anything less than 100%?(Actual SOC around 90% I believe).  If they wanted to do as you suggest then there would be an option to stop charge at 50% for storage as a default and then finish the charge before you need to drive the car.

[fbov]

So what you're saying ...

It would appear you are incapable of understanding what I'm saying... 

[jestevens]

I think it's still too early to tell just how long the Ford battery packs will last, most of the design included with this generation are still under warranty.  The Prius has been around longer and hence some of those packs are finally starting to reach their end of life through normal means.

 

There is probably more than one reason EV+ was included, it makes a great marketing feature, it might contribute to safety -or- longevity by giving the lithium packs a lower SoC while they are at rest, it gives folks a little more EV without having to push an actual EV button.  We'll know for sure once some of the packs truly reach their end of life.

Edited August 25, 2016 by jestevens

[stevedebi]

So what you're saying is that EV+ is NOT actually what Ford says it is, but instead has a secret agenda that can not be revealed and therefore not proven.

 

I'm not saying that it IS or is NOT good for the battery, just that I've yet to see any evidence to such a thing.  And I can't fathom why Ford would want to keep that a secret...

 

Sorry buddy but I use EV+ every single day I take my Energi out.  I've owned it for about 8 months now and I think there may have been about 3 times in total when I had some special short range trip where I had enough battery left to make it home.  Every day on my usual commute home about 3-5 miles in the EV portion is done, the ICE kicks in and I'm in pretty much the same hybrid mode as you and when I get to the last half mile-ish with the ICE running, EV+ shows up on the dash and it increases the tolerance (which you can see in the meter) for how much EV it will let you use before kicking the ICE back on.

 

For that matter, if you truly believe that Ford has a secret(and why on earth would they want to keep items to make your battery last longer a secret?) agenda to promote battery longevity by lowering the battery charge while parked then take a look at the Energi.  Why does the car provide no option whatsoever to stop charging at anything less than 100%?(Actual SOC around 90% I believe).  If they wanted to do as you suggest then there would be an option to stop charge at 50% for storage as a default and then finish the charge before you need to drive the car.

livesmith,

This is a C-Max Hybrid forum. The question is why EV+ would be meaningful for the hybrid. It makes sense for the Energi, which plugs into the grid daily.

 

But there is no point in charging an Energi to 50% - the entire idea of that car is to use as much electric as possible. But in fact, you can use EV Later to charge your car the way you describe, and by default it will begin charging early enough to ensure it is fully charged before you start out in the morning.

 

EDIT: Just a friendly tip. I monitor this forum even though I have an Energi because a lot of the car is the same. But I'm careful to only get involved in the discussions when I think the topic overlaps with the Energi model. I think it is good etiquette. You will get a lot more interest if you post Energi suff in the Energi forum.

Edited August 25, 2016 by stevedebi

[livesmith]

livesmith,

This is a C-Max Hybrid forum. The question is why EV+ would be meaningful for the hybrid. It makes sense for the Energi, which plugs into the grid daily.

 

But there is no point in charging an Energi to 50% - the entire idea of that car is to use as much electric as possible. But in fact, you can use EV Later to charge your car the way you describe, and by default it will begin charging early enough to ensure it is fully charged before you start out in the morning.

 

EDIT: Just a friendly tip. I monitor this forum even though I have an Energi because a lot of the car is the same. But I'm careful to only get involved in the discussions when I think the topic overlaps with the Energi model. I think it is good etiquette. You will get a lot more interest if you post Energi suff in the Energi forum.

 

I think there is a lot of overlap with the cars.  Sure, there are differences.  But some times the points overlap depending on what you're trying to explain.

 

Though I'm *completely* missing your point on why EV+ makes more sense in the Energi...  The Energi would be much more likely than the Hybrid to be making it home without starting the ICE...  If you're still in EV mode then EV+ isn't going to do anything at all...

 

Sure there's a reason to only charge the Energi to 50%(or 40% if that seems to be best charge holding battery longevity number).  I park my car Friday afternoon and don't need it again until Tuesday morning.  It would be best if I could just have it in a "storage charge" mode and charged to 40%, then when my Go Time comes up Tuesday morning it finishes charging up to 100%.

 

I think you're confusing some terms...

-"Value charging" is what you could set up to have it delay charging at all and I don't know of anything that would delay it more than a day.

-"Go Times" are what you'd set up to make sure your car is charged and or temp controlled(attempted) by a specific time(but it won't delay anything)

-"EV Later" is only used while you are actually driving and it will just put the car into hybrid mode at whatever set point the battery is currently at.  I.e. you want to keep the EV battery held at 95%.

[ptjones]

It's pretty rare that the ICE comes on when the car goes into EV+ Mode going to home or work with my Hybrid. :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I think there is a lot of overlap with the cars.  Sure, there are differences.  But some times the points overlap depending on what you're trying to explain.

 

Though I'm *completely* missing your point on why EV+ makes more sense in the Energi...  The Energi would be much more likely than the Hybrid to be making it home without starting the ICE...  If you're still in EV mode then EV+ isn't going to do anything at all...

 

Sure there's a reason to only charge the Energi to 50%(or 40% if that seems to be best charge holding battery longevity number).  I park my car Friday afternoon and don't need it again until Tuesday morning.  It would be best if I could just have it in a "storage charge" mode and charged to 40%, then when my Go Time comes up Tuesday morning it finishes charging up to 100%.

 

I think you're confusing some terms...

-"Value charging" is what you could set up to have it delay charging at all and I don't know of anything that would delay it more than a day.

-"Go Times" are what you'd set up to make sure your car is charged and or temp controlled(attempted) by a specific time(but it won't delay anything)

-"EV Later" is only used while you are actually driving and it will just put the car into hybrid mode at whatever set point the battery is currently at.  I.e. you want to keep the EV battery held at 95%.

 

I'm aware of the terminology. When I set up Go Times I checked out value charging; as I recall it was part of the process, or maybe I just did them together to see if there were cheaper rates.

 

The Go time will consider the departure time and ensure the HVB is fully charged when you are ready to go, and I believe it will begin early regardless of value settings. You mentioned it might be best if the Energi waited until it had to for charging the HVB in order to be ready at departure. It does exactly that with the Go times. That is why I brought it up.

 

In my opinion, EV+ doesn't make much sense for the Hybrid. If you run the battery all the way down, it will have to charge up immediately when you start, causing you to run the ICE while charging at first run. My Escape Hybrid tended to do that (that tech required the engine to run at each start up), and it is pretty much the worst for MPG. It would be better if there were more charge available when starting - at least you could get a start and logically kick in the engine once you got going. In addition, unlike the Energi where the grid will charge the HVB, the battery will be in a lower SOC overnight. I think it was easier for Ford to just put in a lot of the same software, and that is why EV+ is in the hybrid.

 

Along those lines, they could have customized EV Later so that it used the higher capacity HVB - but they didn't; it works the same as the Hybrid, and I would bet that the computer algorithms are just about identical once you hit the EV Later swtich.

 

There. Despite what I said, we just spend time discussing Energi topics on the hybrid forum - not many will be interested here.

[livesmith]

I'm aware of the terminology. When I set up Go Times I checked out value charging; as I recall it was part of the process, or maybe I just did them together to see if there were cheaper rates.

 

The Go time will consider the departure time and ensure the HVB is fully charged when you are ready to go, and I believe it will begin early regardless of value settings. You mentioned it might be best if the Energi waited until it had to for charging the HVB in order to be ready at departure. It does exactly that with the Go times. That is why I brought it up.

 

In my opinion, EV+ doesn't make much sense for the Hybrid. If you run the battery all the way down, it will have to charge up immediately when you start, causing you to run the ICE while charging at first run. My Escape Hybrid tended to do that (that tech required the engine to run at each start up), and it is pretty much the worst for MPG. It would be better if there were more charge available when starting - at least you could get a start and logically kick in the engine once you got going. In addition, unlike the Energi where the grid will charge the HVB, the battery will be in a lower SOC overnight. I think it was easier for Ford to just put in a lot of the same software, and that is why EV+ is in the hybrid.

 

Along those lines, they could have customized EV Later so that it used the higher capacity HVB - but they didn't; it works the same as the Hybrid, and I would bet that the computer algorithms are just about identical once you hit the EV Later swtich.

 

There. Despite what I said, we just spend time discussing Energi topics on the hybrid forum - not many will be interested here.

I agree with your first statement. "It will begin early regardless."  Yes, if you don't have value charging set up then the Go times will have basically no effect on charging.  It will simply start charging as soon as you plug it in and finish when it gets to 100%.

 

You have to use Value charging to get any sort of delay and that still doesn't delay for more than a day.

 

 

You seem to have entered a third opinion on EV+ and another one that goes directly against what Ford says it's supposed to do and everything that I've seen it do.  

Ford simply says that it is meant to help keep the ICE from running as you near a place you're going to stop at.  That's all I've seen it do.

If the other opinion I've heard is that it's mean to lower SOC, then I don't see why they didn't just program EV+ to simply aim for that magic 40% charge level.

But it sounds like you don't agree with Ford or the other opinion of lowering SOC.

 

I'm not following what you are thinking EV Later should do with the HVB?  I'd bet it's about the same algorithm as the hybrid  well...  That's what it's supposed to do...  It's purpose is to NOT use the HVB...  If you want to use the HVB, you would go with either EV now or Auto mode...

[ptjones]

I'm aware of the terminology. When I set up Go Times I checked out value charging; as I recall it was part of the process, or maybe I just did them together to see if there were cheaper rates.

 

The Go time will consider the departure time and ensure the HVB is fully charged when you are ready to go, and I believe it will begin early regardless of value settings. You mentioned it might be best if the Energi waited until it had to for charging the HVB in order to be ready at departure. It does exactly that with the Go times. That is why I brought it up.

 

In my opinion, EV+ doesn't make much sense for the Hybrid. If you run the battery all the way down, it will have to charge up immediately when you start, causing you to run the ICE while charging at first run. My Escape Hybrid tended to do that (that tech required the engine to run at each start up), and it is pretty much the worst for MPG. It would be better if there were more charge available when starting - at least you could get a start and logically kick in the engine once you got going. In addition, unlike the Energi where the grid will charge the HVB, the battery will be in a lower SOC overnight. I think it was easier for Ford to just put in a lot of the same software, and that is why EV+ is in the hybrid.

 

Along those lines, they could have customized EV Later so that it used the higher capacity HVB - but they didn't; it works the same as the Hybrid, and I would bet that the computer algorithms are just about identical once you hit the EV Later swtich.

 

There. Despite what I said, we just spend time discussing Energi topics on the hybrid forum - not many will be interested here.

Here is my take on EV+ with the Hybrid, first is the only time transmission fluid is being pumped is when the ICE is running.  When you start in the morning as soon as you hit 35 mph the ICE will start no matter SOC or WT to lube the trans.  Second the ICE needs to be above 128*F WT and will try to keep from going into EV until it does. :sad: This is why I heat up oil pan and block heaters in the morning so I'm already above 128*F. :)  Also quite often when the HVB cools off the SOC will go up alot, I have seen as high as 23% when it was 57% and the next morning it was 80%, WOW! :yahoo:

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I agree with your first statement. "It will begin early regardless."  Yes, if you don't have value charging set up then the Go times will have basically no effect on charging.  It will simply start charging as soon as you plug it in and finish when it gets to 100%.

 

You have to use Value charging to get any sort of delay and that still doesn't delay for more than a day.

 

 

You seem to have entered a third opinion on EV+ and another one that goes directly against what Ford says it's supposed to do and everything that I've seen it do.  

Ford simply says that it is meant to help keep the ICE from running as you near a place you're going to stop at.  That's all I've seen it do.

If the other opinion I've heard is that it's mean to lower SOC, then I don't see why they didn't just program EV+ to simply aim for that magic 40% charge level.

But it sounds like you don't agree with Ford or the other opinion of lowering SOC.

 

I'm not following what you are thinking EV Later should do with the HVB?  I'd bet it's about the same algorithm as the hybrid  well...  That's what it's supposed to do...  It's purpose is to NOT use the HVB...  If you want to use the HVB, you would go with either EV now or Auto mode...

I probably should have said hybrid mode rather than EV later, although they are similar. The Energi is programmed as if the remaining "hybrid" battery is all there is. In fact there is a lot more HVB capacity available. You can see the effect after the HVB is out of EV and you are running hybrid. The battery attempts to leave room for regen when engaging EV. This is better for the hybrid, which has no extra battery - when you slow down, it has room in the HVB for energy capture. But with the Energi, it does not have to worry about leaving extra capacity to use for regen - it could theoretically perform differently, and not try and leave capacity in the battery. It changes the way the car uses EV. I don't know if it could be improved much, but I've noticed it tries to keep capacity available when the Energi is in "hybrid" mode - just like the C-Max Hybrid does. I doubt that a hybrid owner would notice, but to this Energi owner, I think it could be done better. Anyway, that is how I see that Ford duplicated the code instead of customizing it for the Energi. I think they took the hybrid code and basically tacked on the Energi modes (which were custom made for the plug in models).

 

It is the same in EV+, but you can't monitor it like you can when the "hybrid" battery is showing - that is, after EV Only and EV Later modes are disabled. In EV Later mode, you still have the mileage estimate on the battery (at least up until the mid 2015 model year, not sure about 2016 and later) - and other than showing range going up and down, you can't really tell what the car is doing with the "hybrid" reserved portion of the battery.

[ptjones]

It sounds like you can use up NRG portion of HVB and then keep going EV in Hybrid part of HVB.  How much extra range is that? :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

It sounds like you can use up NRG portion of HVB and then keep going EV in Hybrid part of HVB.  How much extra range is that? :)

 

Paul

Once the "hybrid portion kicks in, it won't go any further than yours, maybe two or three miles. However, many times I've managed to complete an all EV trip by being careful with the accelerator once the "big" battery is finished and I'm into the "hybrid" battery. There is no physical difference, of course; Ford just apportions off part of the Energi HVB and considers that the "hybrid" portion. I imagine they use different parts to spread the load around, but I don't know.

[ptjones]

Once the "hybrid portion kicks in, it won't go any further than yours, maybe two or three miles. However, many times I've managed to complete an all EV trip by being careful with the accelerator once the "big" battery is finished and I'm into the "hybrid" battery. There is no physical difference, of course; Ford just apportions off part of the Energi HVB and considers that the "hybrid" portion. I imagine they use different parts to spread the load around, but I don't know.

So how much range do you have combining the two? :)

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

Once the "hybrid portion kicks in, it won't go any further than yours, maybe two or three miles. However, many times I've managed to complete an all EV trip by being careful with the accelerator once the "big" battery is finished and I'm into the "hybrid" battery. There is no physical difference, of course; Ford just apportions off part of the Energi HVB and considers that the "hybrid" portion. I imagine they use different parts to spread the load around, but I don't know.

Does it help to switch between the EV later, EV now and EV auto modes while driving to essentially extend EV range by trying to use ICE more at perhaps at higher speeds (higher power requirements) and save EV for lower speeds (lower power requirements) and so forth? 

 

I doubt Ford uses different parts of the HVB for HEV operation and a different part for EV operation to spread the load around. That's counter to operating batteries in general when cycling but it could be done.  It seems that would highly complicate equalizing the charge on the individual cells which is one of the most important functions for battery long life - making sure all cells are balanced and have an equal charge.  I would envision one battery for control operations and that the control algorithm simply apportions a slice of the entire HVB to Hybrid operation based on the control mode (EV later, now, and auto) as the HVB is being discharged. The slice would then not be a fixed portion of the HVB but in essence "move" depending on the SOC.  Of course once one depletes the HVB near it's lower limit, the bottom portion of the HVB would then be operated just like the Hybrid.

 

One more point on this thread in general to get back on topic of the thread.  If I calculate the savings from using EV+ vs not using EV plus for Energi owners, it seems it would likely be less than a $10 bill annually. Of course it is highly dependent on electricity vs gas prices.  But the amount of gas that would be saved for the last 1/2 mile or so say 365 times a year is not much (maybe 4-5 gallons) and the amount of electricity used (maybe 50 kWh) make the difference rather insignificant in the operation of EV+.  Also, I doubt for Hybrid owners that use EV+ saves much fuel, if any, as fuel is the only source of energy.  ICE must run on cold startup to reach the operating temperature for closed loop operation anyways.  Again I'll bet the fuel saved, if any, is less than a $10 a year.

 

IMO, EV+ as it currently exists is marketing hype by Ford.  Now expand EV+ for say the last 5 miles with many intermediate locations along the route including the controls to optimize the use of EV and ICE over those last 5 miles, and one may achieve meaningful economic benefits.  We can argue as to whether use of EV+ extends the life of the HVB, but IMO the real benefit of the EV+ algorithm is yet to come.

[ptjones]

For me the EV+ works with my strategy of using HVB for speeds less than 35mph and I'm currently getting 56-58mpg for the last three tanks. From a stop I will accelerate to 15-20 mph before starting ICE and usually works fine if you have enough HVB SOC.    Most of my driving is 45-55 mph and will go slower if there isn't any traffic so I can  use terrain to improve MPG's. Slow down going uphills and coasting down hills.  :)  When I first start out in the morning I can go down to 32% HVB SOC before ICE will kicks in if I use light accelerator pressure. I usually be going at least 15 mph and can get to 35 mph before the ICE starts. The faster you are going when the ICE starts, better the ICE gas mileage is. You can see this watching your instantaneous MPG Smart Gauge, at 25-35 mph you're getting maybe 10 mpg, but at 65 mph you're getting 20-25 mpg. :)  

 

Paul

[obob]

 Slow down going uphills and coasting down hills.  :)  When I first start out in the morning I can go down to 32% HVB SOC before ICE will kicks in if I use light accelerator pressure. I usually be going at least 15 mph and can get to 35 mph before the ICE starts. The faster you are going when the ICE starts, better the ICE gas mileage is. You can see this watching your instantaneous MPG Smart Gauge, at 25-35 mph you're getting maybe 10 mpg, but at 65 mph you're getting 20-25 mpg. :)  

 

Paul

 

What I have been doing with longer substantial hills is speed up a little before the hill and then a 2 bar burn up the hill which means slowing down.  My sense which I have not proved is that it is better to burn a little extra wind resistance going down to get the hill over quicker, rather than lug up a long hill at a slower speed.  This allows for more "slowing down."

 

Your thoughts on speed and ICE are interesting and I will have to think about them.   Perhaps you can expand on that.

 

I tend to tap the "gas" pedal when I first start out to kind of warm the engine up, but go slowly so to be accelerating on EV. (at start up a tap starts engine but is moved with the HVB and electric motor) For if the first pedal push requires good acceleration it seems very costly.

Edited August 27, 2016 by obob