Automatic Noise Cancellation Problem

[mtb9153]

Noise Cancellation?  Didn't know we had this?  Is that why when I drive with the windows down or a window down it makes that offensive reverberation rumbling sound?  Interesting.  ;) 

[bigalpha]

Nope.  I wish though, it'd be easier to fix ;)

[mtb9153]

I'm old and never have my radio cranked up that loud LOL.  Sounds like a good thing to me as I hate hearing cars next to me at traffic lights with their cars kabooming so loudly that their cars shake.  But for you youngsters it may be an issue. I went to Apple to listen to Cachaito as I have never heard of him, and actually the music is quite different, lively, and catchy to listen to.

I was curious and took a listen as well on iTunes Laurel, thanks for the suggestion since I'd never heard of him either.  I listened to several music track samplers and nice but I also listened to a similar artists tracks and I liked Ray Baretto better as it sounded allot like Carlos Santana's style of music who I grew up on in the 70's and 80's both during and after my school years.

Edited June 22, 2014 by mtb9153

[mtb9153]

This is all interesting conversation here.  One more thing which I will throw in.  I think this cancellation system might be playing tricks on my hearing aids cancellation feature.  Because at times while driving at the 35-45 speed range, I hear an audible increase in white noise which builds up to a point and backs down to a quieter level.  Almost sounds like the static sound you hear if tuned in between stations on your TV set where there's no picture, only snow.  Now I'm showing my age since that doesn't really happen anymore with the age of digital electronics :drop:

Edited June 26, 2014 by mtb9153

[fordfan82]

Concerning the noise cancelling, it can affect being able to hear emergency vehicles.

 

On Friday, we turned out of a gas station that's about a block from a Fire Station, next thing we know we had am ambulance right next to us with lights & siren going, & we could only heard the siren when they were right next to us (all we had on was the A/C on AUTO). Thankfully, we remembered that the fire department sends out as fire truck with every ambulance so we were expecting the fire truck to be not far behind the ambulance.

Isn't that dangerous if it affects being able to hear emergency vehicles due to the noise canceling feature?

[ArizonaEnergi]

Isn't that dangerous if it affects being able to hear emergency vehicles due to the noise canceling feature?

I suspect that emergency vehicle turned on their siren next to the poster, as I don't see this system as being able to suppress such noises.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ArizonaEnergi

[jdbob]

Isn't that dangerous if it affects being able to hear emergency vehicles due to the noise canceling feature?

 

The active noise control only works with the low frequencies from the engine, shouldn't effect sirens. 

[fordfan82]

So what does the active noise control exactly do? Do you not here the engine as much?

[Brent Bevil]

Fordfan82 is correct.  Active noise cancelling only focuses on certain range/frequency of sound.  It would not mask thinks such as sirens, music speech etc..

[HotPotato]

Noise Cancellation?  Didn't know we had this?  Is that why when I drive with the windows down or a window down it makes that offensive reverberation rumbling sound?  Interesting.  ;)

 

Hehe. As you know, that side window buffeting noise happens on all modern cars. Here's why: http://jalopnik.com/why-do-slightly-opened-car-windows-make-that-awful-soun-1447498738

 

From the article, it sounds like cars with a big interior volume --- like ours --- would experience it the most.

[clyde270]

Hello, I'm a new member and decided to jump into this old thread. This year, I bought a new 2014 C-Max Hybrid SEL with 240 miles. Now, it has just over 4,000 mi. I am experiencing an issue with the Active Noise Control (ANC).

 

My ANC does not like passengers in the front seat for the most part. It's my daily driver and only when family of lunch buddies get in the car, the low db noise happens. Quite painful to everyone's ears and very embarrassing. Some of my passengers even put their fingers into their ears and say, "...make it stop.". At first, it does sound like the engine at low rpm, but you can easily prove, that it is the ANC. When it happens, just reach up and start tapping one of the over head microphones. The front passenger microphone works the best. If you hold the throttle steady when the drone is heard, start tapping the mic, and the noise goes away. Quit tapping, it immediately comes back. The front driver's mic has to be tapped slightly harder, and the rear mic even harder. The focus appears to be on the front passenger area. As tapping is awkward, especially when looking forward while driving and feeling the ceiling for the mic, I choose to increase/decrease the throttle. The only times by myself, that I can hear the db noise start, but never reach the full drone stage, is in music on Sirius XM radio. It will sound as if you set a sub woofer to low in the db, then it begins to distort the song. I listen to 80s, Message, and Boneyard. It's the base guitar/keyboard, that brings it out.

 

I've taken it to the Ford dealer twice, drove the car with serviceman inside, but cannot seem to duplicate the problem. Once in the early morning on a cool day around 68 degrees, and another on a hot day over 80 degrees around lunch time. You do not have to drive the car long to hear it. About a 1/2 mile, but I cannot get anyone from Ford with me to hear it, nor do I. I've even had my lunch buddies turn off their iPhones and think happy thoughts. I cannot even record the sound with the iPhone. You can hear my buddies and I complain, that we're hearing it, but during playback, it's not there. The iPhone must be compensating it.

 

I'm going to take some vacation days off this November, and let them look at the car. I did notice that the ceiling is quite peculiar. I bought a sun visor the other day, one of the ones with two screens you fold into a circle, and its tends to open and go into the open cavity above the ceiling. If you feel the front edge of the ceiling with your hand, you can put all fingers above the ceiling and you feel the back side. The fabric just ends at the cut edge with no molding to protect it. It's bare and you can feel the foam that it is adhered too along its edge. I read about the ceiling recall done at the factory to add more impact material during the crash. If you look around the car, you can see where the fabric doesn't sit quite well on the pillar moldings and weather stripping. On the right rear passenger pillar molding, the fabric shows a stain of orange, that reminds me of the old days of using contact cement for replacing window channels on my old Fords. Unscrew the top, use the applicator brush, and whoops too generous with the cement.

 

Other than the ANC. It's been a good car. I'm getting about 47 mpg.

[stevedebi]

I noticed that sort of headliner on my Ford Escape Hybrid. After 6 years, the material started separating. Turns out there was no extra material to glue back - it went exactly to the edge of the headliner and no further. The upholster place I spoke with said the glue just goes bad, and the material rots, so it can't be repaired, only replaced. Of course, that would have been business for him, so who knows. As it happens I traded the FEH in for my C-Max...

[Smiling Jack]

You cannot turn noise cancellation on or off, however it is only active when the ignition is in run and all of the doors, hood, and rear hatch are closed.

 

Can we not turn it off by simply turning the audio system off?

[Kelleytoons]

Hmmm -- never saw this thread before and never heard of ANC either (actually, to be *really* ignorant, I never even thought about having over the head microphones, although it makes sense that you have to have a microphone somewhere in order for the MFT to hear what you are saying.  Up until now, though, I just through it was in the steering wheel or dash).

 

Jack, this has *nothing* to do with the audio system.  It's designed to help with the noise produced by the CVT.  Here's an article:

 

http://www.torquenews.com/1083/ford-fusion-makes-noise-keep-car-quiet

 

I'm assuming the reason the microphone tapping works is because the system then shuts down temporarily in order to hear commands spoken to it (assuming you have MFT).  It certainly sounds (no pun intended) Clyde like your system is defective and, like all those problems that go away when you take it in to be serviced, is going to be difficult to get fixed.  Recording won't help anyway, even if you had a sensitive enough device, because a service person really needs to hear it for him or herself.  So I'd just keep taking it in, describing the issue, and see if they can track it down.

 

In the meantime, here are some folks who disabled the system (in case that's what you'd like to try -- personally I think you'd get more bad sound than it was worth, but since I've never heard it perhaps not):

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/8160-disconnected-active-noise-cancellation-anc-mics/

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7091-disable-active-noise-cancellation/

[FordService]

Hello, I'm a new member and decided to jump into this old thread. This year, I bought a new 2014 C-Max Hybrid SEL with 240 miles. Now, it has just over 4,000 mi. I am experiencing an issue with the Active Noise Control (ANC).

...

That's pretty awesome mileage, clyde270! The dealer will have to duplicate the concern in order to diagnose it; sounds like you have a good plan in place. Let me know when you go back and I'll see how can best assist from my end.

 

Rachel

[stevedebi]

Can we not turn it off by simply turning the audio system off?

There is a fuse that can be pulled to shut down power to the system. It is in the owner manual.

[Smiling Jack]

.......

.......

 

Jack, this has *nothing* to do with the audio system.  It's designed to help with the noise produced by the CVT.  Here's an article:

.......

........

 

This would imply that the noise cancellation system has it's own separate speakers and amplifier(s).

 

I presumed that it used the audio system's speakers and amplifier(s).

 

Does anyone know which is the case?

Edited November 5, 2014 by Smiling Jack

[jdbob]

"The DACMC is a digital signal processor that consists of an internal analog/digital converter, amplifier, and tone generator. The DACMC operates with the ignition in RUN, ACC, or OFF. Active noise control functions only operate with the ignition in RUN."

 

.....

 

"The DACMC receives engine rotation speed data and active noise control microphone input signals and calculates the targeted frequency needed to cancel engine noise within the passenger compartment. The DACMC outputs the engine noise cancellation frequency to all audio system speakers, except the instrument panel center speaker (if equipped), as fluctuating AC voltage."

 

So it uses the audio system's speakers and amplifiers.

[bigalpha]

And the noise cancellation works even with the audio system in use?

[stevedebi]

And the noise cancellation works even with the audio system in use?

Yes.

[bigalpha]

That seems almost impossible!

[Smiling Jack]

"The DACMC is a digital signal processor that consists of an internal analog/digital converter, amplifier, and tone generator. The DACMC operates with the ignition in RUN, ACC, or OFF. Active noise control functions only operate with the ignition in RUN."

 

.....

 

"The DACMC receives engine rotation speed data and active noise control microphone input signals and calculates the targeted frequency needed to cancel engine noise within the passenger compartment. The DACMC outputs the engine noise cancellation frequency to all audio system speakers, except the instrument panel center speaker (if equipped), as fluctuating AC voltage."

 

So it uses the audio system's speakers and amplifiers.

 

So, if the active noise cancellation uses the audio system's amplifiers and speakers, how on earth could it work when the audio system is turned off?

 

I note now that the only time I ever heard objectionable noise from the car was on my original trip home from the dealer after taking delivery.  I may very well have had the audio system turned off completely on that trip home, and I probably never again had it turned off completely while driving - though I often just turn down the volume to zero.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Smiling Jack

[stevedebi]

So, if the active noise cancellation uses the audio system's amplifiers and speakers, how on earth could it work when the audio system is turned off?

 

I note now that the only time I ever heard objectionable noise from the car was on my original trip home from the dealer after taking delivery.  I may very well have had the audio system turned off completely on that trip home, and I probably never again had it turned off completely while driving - though I often just turn down the volume to zero.

 

The audio system is turned off, but the ANC isn't. Here is a pretty good explanation for the Fusion hybrid, from 2012.

 

http://corporate.ford.com/news-center/press-releases-detail/pr-2013-ford-fusion-hybrid2658-active-37160

 

The entire point of the system is that it is sending out noise that exactly cancels out the noise detected by the sensors - so you hear nothing.

Edited November 5, 2014 by stevedebi

[jdbob]

The microphones are connected to the module that drives the speakers, so turning off the audio system might just turn off some of the other modules (there are several) but leave the speaker amplifier module on.

 

On the other hand, just because it looks like things are off doesn't actually mean that they are. For instance it's typical that when turning off a TV satellite receiver that the only thing that will go off is the display and power LED, the rest stays powered.

[Smiling Jack]

The microphones are connected to the module that drives the speakers, so turning off the audio system might just turn off some of the other modules (there are several) but leave the speaker amplifier module on.

 

On the other hand, just because it looks like things are off doesn't actually mean that they are. For instance it's typical that when turning off a TV satellite receiver that the only thing that will go off is the display and power LED, the rest stays powered.

 

Possible, I suppose, but that seems like an incredible (literally) stretch to me.

 

I think that it is more likely that only one set of amplifiers drives the speakers and that when the audio is off, those amplifiers are off and there will be no sound coming out of those speakers. It seems highly unlikely that two separate amplifiers would be driving the same speaker at the same time.  It also seems unlikely that the amplifiers would not be turned off with the audio system power, since they would be the principal power draw.

 

Maybe someone who actually knows will respond.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Smiling Jack