CMAX Grill Cover Testing, 2-5 MPG Gain

[Taz]

Hopefully there will be enough interest for more. At the moment I am using the pipe insulation stuffed in there. Better than nothing and the car does warm up quicker. At the moment I am just commuting in LA so no issues with getting too hot.

[ptjones]

I made a Three day trip to Rochester,NY and back this week so I decided to fill up with ethanol free (6.1 gal) with the 93 octane Premium and then add 2/3 of bottle of NOS Octane Booster Racing Formula.  I was amazed by the results and I saw the highest advance ignition timing ever.  I started out on I-85, I-285, I-75, I-71, I-90 to I-390 and by the time I got to I-75(50 mi) my average MPG was 58 going 65-75mph. I think the Octane Booster was worth 2 mpg, but not the money spent on it. Temps started out in high 60's, got up to 78*F and then dropped down to 55*F and I did have a tail wind 10-20 mph.  My average GPS speed was 63.5 mph and you can see on the GPS I wasn't driving slow, 84.9 mph max with 54.3 mpg average (53.5 mpg Actual). My second tank, 92 octane Premium Temps 50-58*F some rain averaged 53.6 mpg(51.6 mpg actual) .  When I got home I did final full up 53.9 mpg average (54.1 actual). I had the Grill Covers on for the whole trip and only used the heater to lower the ICE temp below 230*F for no longer than a minute at a time on long climbs.  The Total trip was 2033 mi. so I average about 700 mi. a day and BTW all three fill ups could have 700 mi. tanks. 

 

 

 

PS. Who said you could not get as good MPG's as a TDI. LOL  :yahoo:

 

Paul

Edited October 19, 2015 by ptjones

[C-MaxSea]

PS. Who said you could not get as good MPG's as a TDI. LOL  :yahoo:

 

Paul

 

And the - 'can't do more than 42-43 mpg at 60 mph' - nonsense !!!   You busted two myths in one run. :hat_tip: :hat_tip: :hat_tip: :hat_tip: :hat_tip: Way to go Paul !

WOWWWW !!!!

Edited October 18, 2015 by C-MaxSea

[fbov]

 

I made a Three day trip to Rochester,NY...

And you didn't even say "Hello!"

[ptjones]

And you didn't even say "Hello!"

I sent you a PM and didn't hear back. Would have been nice. ;)

 

Paul

[fbov]

And I missed it - sorry! My bad. It would, indeed!

[ptjones]

Just a reminder if you don't have Grill Covers on your car it is time to do it now that it's getting cold. :)   It will lessen the MPG hit this winter. :shift:

 

Paul

[ptjones]

I decided to move shutter discussion here were it should be.

 

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 Plus 3 Golfer said:

C-Max Hybrid Member

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• Current Vehicle:2013

Posted 19 May 2016 - 05:15 PM

I've recorded lots of data on shutter operations and ECT.  Here's my observations and facts (to set the record straight  :) )..

 

1) Engine coolant thermostat starts to open at  around 180 F and should be fully open at 202 F (this is the spec.)

 

2) HVAC operation, speed, ECT, and ambient temperature determine shutter opening.

 

3) When AC is ON and speed is above 50 mph, the shutters immediately open to 40% and increase in opening based on ambient temperature above around 70F+.

 

4) When AC is ON and speed is below 50 mph, shutter opening is based on speed -  increasing from 40% opening as speed decreases.

 

5) When AC is OFF, shutters are fully closed below around 192 F and fully open above around 212 F and can be in various states of opening between 192 F and 212 F

 

6) So, when ambient temperature is low (say around 32 F), it's unlikely that the ECT ever will get to 202 F (thermostat fully open) as the grille shutters will begin to operate if ECT ever makes it to around 192 F.  This is where the addition of grille covers can significantly increase the operating temperature of ICE as virtually no air gets to the radiator (shutters closed below 192 F or shutters in a state of opening above 192 F and grille blocks on).  Even at around 50F ambient with grille blocks, ECT rarely gets to 212 F in normal driving except when on the interstates at high speed going up long grades.  I've seen ECT at 234 F at 70+ mph and around 50F ambient going up grades at 70+ mph.  On relatively flat interstates, ECT would generally be around 220+- F.  In summary, with grille blocks one should see an increase in FE due to higher ICE operating temperatures and due to better aerodynamics with the grille blocks (no box in front of the grille shutters, just a smooth curved surface).

 

Here's a couple of graphs I put together a while ago showing ambient temp and speed vs grille commanded opening and AC ON and OFF operation.

 

Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 19 May 2016 - 08:25 PM.

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Edited May 25, 2016 by ptjones

[ptjones]

 ptjones

 

Posted 21 May 2016 - 01:57 PM

I know we have been this way before, but after the ECM update watching shutters with WEB Cam they only were open all the way or closed all the way, no in between.  I need to get another Web Cam to monitor speed and WT.  IIRC shutters would open at 210*F WT below 55mph and 215*F WT above 55mph.  :)

 

Paul 

 

Paul Jones - A true FORD man!
2013 Ford C-MAX SEL
2013 Ford Explorer Limited EcoBoost

Current Record:  12/30/2014  902.2 mi.  63.8 mpg  14.13  gal. (Actual GPS:  922 mi.  68.3 mpg  13.5 gal.)

 

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Edited May 25, 2016 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Plus 3 Golfer  said:

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:19 PM

And as I said before, when I monitored with my web cam, I saw positions between closed and open.  I do have a new laptop so I should be able to record the operations now.  But, I believe the ForScan data and when I monitor data, I can clearly see that the inferred / commanded shutter operation does affect ECT.

 

I just went out to the garage and verified that the ForScan app is reading the position of the grille shutters.  Start car with AC OFF, grille shutters are closed.  Push AC ON, and grille shutters open to 100%. This tracked the commanded and inferred grille shutter positions in ForScan.  It's too much of a hassle to video record the shutters while driving.  I have no doubt that ForScan is correctly reporting the grille shutter positions.

Edited by Plus 3 Golfer, 21 May 2016 - 06:13 PM.

Edited May 25, 2016 by ptjones

[ptjones]

 

Posted Yesterday, 04:00 PM

Plus 3 Golfer, on 21 May 2016 - 5:19 PM, said:

And as I said before, when I monitored with my web cam, I saw positions between closed and open.  I do have a new laptop so I should be able to record the operations now.  But, I believe the ForScan data and when I monitor data, I can clearly see that the inferred / commanded shutter operation does affect ECT.

 

I just went out to the garage and verified that the ForScan app is reading the position of the grille shutters.  Start car with AC OFF, grille shutters are closed.  Push AC ON, and grille shutters open to 100%. This tracked the commanded and inferred grille shutter positions in ForScan.  It's too much of a hassle to video record the shutters while driving.  I have no doubt that ForScan is correctly reporting the grille shutter positions.

I got my wife to help me video the shutter operations with WebCam, LapTop, ScanGaugeII and IPhone 6+.  I have YouTube links to two videos.   You can see shutters open at 215-216*F going 65 mph and close at 214*F.  Also see A/C vs shutter operation when turned on and off. These videos were done with both Center and Lower Grills covered up and OT of 85*F.  Needless to say my wife was a real trooper to put up with those temps and also covered up with black material to get the glare down on the Lap Top.  BTW I used a piece of masking tape to make it easier to see the shutters move. Not a professional job, but I think you will get the Idea.  :)

 

Video 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ekAoVqEGjc

Video 2:

 

If you have a problem you can search you tube for 2013 CMAX Shutter Test

 

Paul

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Plus 3 Golfer said:    

You need to remove the grille covers because the PCM computes an inferred position which no way can match actual operations with no air flow through the radiator.  So, the PCM appears to be constantly moving the shutters as it tries to match inferred with actual going from wide open to shut.  The PCM can't find anything that makes sense with the covers on and no air flow.

Edited May 25, 2016 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Posted Yesterday, 06:18 PM

PCM doesn't have anyway of knowing whether air is going through radiator or not . There is no feed back loop for shutter motor, one time I was trying to automate lower Grill Cover and managed to screw two of the shutters together, PCM never reported a problem. I figured out the problem myself.  WT is the main mover with speed having a minor effect on shutter position( open or closed) the couple of times that I have tested shutter operations.  BTW I find it difficult to get to 215*FWT with Grill Covers removed.  I wish you would do a video so we could see shutter operating.  If you need some help let me know, Thanks  :)

 

Paul

 

[ptjones]

Plus 3 Golfer Said:

The PCM can infer air flow by using speed and shutter position. Again, take the grille covers off and also get the forscan app.  There's no reason to believe forscan data is incorrect.  The operation  of the grille shutters correlates with ECT, speed and temperature.  Just look at my graphs.  

[plus 3 golfer]

I believe I posted the quote below from the Service Manual (red emphasis added) before.  I have observed this type of operation with ForScan on many occasions.  It's clear to me that this is how the grille shutters operate with no grille covers on.  My graphs show this type of grille shutter operations.  How the shutters behave with grille covers on is moot as the primary purpose of the covers is to block air flow to the radiator to increase the operating temperature of ICE.  A secondary benefit of the covers is likely a slightly lower coefficient of drag - the frontal shape is more aerodynamic with the covers than without the covers.  

 

Personally, I do not run with covers on when I begin using the AC frequently (say when ambient temperatures will often be over 70 F).  In the Phoenix area this would limit my use of covers to about 3 months.  In TN, I put them on in November (when I moved to TN) and took them off in April (I believe this April was one of the hottest on record here).  

 

"The grille shutter actuator positions the grille shutters based on commands from the PCM . The grille shutter moves 90 degrees from fully closed to fully open and, based on the position commanded by the PCM , is set in 1 of 16 positions (approximately 6 degrees between positions). 

 

During normal operation, the grille shutter may be partially to fully open when the engine is off depending on the ambient temperature. When the engine is started, a calibration of the grille shutter system occurs which typically takes 15-20 seconds. The grille shutter system performs the calibration sequence by detecting the end positions, open and closed. The calibration sequence can begin in either direction, open or closed, and continues until it is successful or a fault is sensed. A long pause may occur between the 2 portions (open/close) of the calibration sequence. Calibration of the grille shutter system cannot be manually requested, it only occurs as determined by the grille shutter actuator. If certain faults are present (shutter blocked or actuator error), a recalibration is initiated in an attempt to resolve the problem. If the problem is not resolved after a calibrated number of attempts (usually 3 or 4), a timer starts and sets a DTC when the timer reaches a predetermined limit.

 

The PCM communicates the desired position (open or closed) of the grille shutter based on various PCM inputs (vehicle speed, coolant temperature, ambient temperature, A/C system pressure, etc.)"

[ptjones]

Yesterday We took MADMAX up I-85 with lower Grill Cover off to test shutter operations.  I was afraid with the lower Grill Cover off we wouldn't able to get hot enough for shutters to open. Sure enough the WT(CHT) only got to 215*F going up hills and speeds up to 80mph on our 20 mile trip so we stopped and had lunch to figure what to do.  I decided to use masking tape to block off 1/3 of lower grill to raise temps higher.  It turned out to make little difference ;) on our trip home with speeds up to 90 mph :drop:  so at half way I turned on A/C to see shutters work and they did. ;)  So traveling at 90 mph and still only 215*F, but when I turned to get off at our exit it hit 216*F and shutters still closed, but I'm not giving up.  With one foot on gas and other on brakes I keep ICE running  and WT hits 218*F and shutters open finally. :yahoo: I slowed down to 30 mph to go the 1/4 mile to our shop and upon arriving WT was still 215*F, not much cooling at 30 mph and in EV ICE isn't circulating the coolant to cool it off.  Instead of stopping I continued on to see what temp the shutters closed at, 210*F shutters started to close but at half way they stopped, i thought they were going go back to open, but they reversed direction and closed with temp at 207*F.

 

The things we have learned from four separate tests:

 

 1. I can see of no logical reason not to have the center grill covered all the time.  The ICE runs to cold, below 202*F with the lower Grill Cover open, no need to add more cooling. ;)

 

 2. If you are doing mainly city driving and less than half an hour trips on the FWY you can leave lower Grill Cover on all time, exception being using A/C.  Although I use A/C with Grill Covers on and not much difference in cooling. :)

 

 3. Shutters open at 208*F @ 30 mph and 217*F@ 65-70 mph and are either closed or open, no in between on my CMAX.

 

 4. Given all the info I have accumulated 3 1/2yrs my CMAX Grill Covers are a much better solution than FORD's active shutters for improving MPG's IMO. :) My results speaks for themselves.

 

P.S. Testing shutter operations is a good way to ruin your MPG's. :drop:  I lost 6 mpg's in two lunch hour tests sessions.   :sad:

 

Paul

[C-MaxSea]

No question here Paul; you are the Grill Cover King !   :hat_tip: :hat_tip: :hat_tip: for your heroic efforts. 

 

Now, I promise to cover that center grill of ours someday.  If only I wasn't so lazy.  

 

Thanks,

Nick

Edited May 27, 2016 by C-MaxSea

[ptjones]

No question here Paul; you are the Grill Cover King !   :hat_tip: :hat_tip: :hat_tip: for your heroic efforts. 

 

Now, I promise to cover that center grill of ours someday.  If only I wasn't so lazy.  

 

Thanks,

Nick

I guess I make up to it. :lol2:  :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

Yesterday We took MADMAX up I-85 with lower Grill Cover off to test shutter operations.  I was afraid with the lower Grill Cover off we wouldn't able to get hot enough for shutters to open. Sure enough the WT(CHT) only got to 215*F going up hills and speeds up to 80mph on our 20 mile trip so we stopped and had lunch to figure what to do.  I decided to use masking tape to block off 1/3 of lower grill to raise temps higher.  It turned out to make little difference ;) on our trip home with speeds up to 90 mph :drop:  so at half way I turned on A/C to see shutters work and they did. ;)  So traveling at 90 mph and still only 215*F, but when I turned to get off at our exit it hit 216*F and shutters still closed, but I'm not giving up.  With one foot on gas and other on brakes I keep ICE running  and WT hits 218*F and shutters open finally. :yahoo: I slowed down to 30 mph to go the 1/4 mile to our shop and upon arriving WT was still 215*F, not much cooling at 30 mph and in EV ICE isn't circulating the coolant to cool it off.  Instead of stopping I continued on to see what temp the shutters closed at, 210*F shutters started to close but at half way they stopped, i thought they were going go back to open, but they reversed direction and closed with temp at 207*F.

 

The things we have learned from four separate tests:

 

 1. I can see of no logical reason not to have the center grill covered all the time.  The ICE runs to cold, below 202*F with the lower Grill Cover open, no need to add more cooling. ;)

 

 2. If you are doing mainly city driving and less than half an hour trips on the FWY you can leave lower Grill Cover on all time, exception being using A/C.  Although I use A/C with Grill Covers on and not much difference in cooling. :)

 

 3. Shutters open at 208*F @ 30 mph and 217*F@ 65-70 mph and are either closed or open, no in between on my CMAX.

 

 4. Given all the info I have accumulated 3 1/2yrs my CMAX Grill Covers are a much better solution than FORD's active shutters for improving MPG's IMO. :) My results speaks for themselves.

 

P.S. Testing shutter operations is a good way to ruin your MPG's. :drop:  I lost 6 mpg's in two lunch hour tests sessions.   :sad:

 

Paul

Well, in GA maybe there is no need for more cooling, but the last time I went through Needles CA in August, the temperature was 119F.

[ptjones]

Well, in GA maybe there is no need for more cooling, but the last time I went through Needles CA in August, the temperature was 119F.

Well been there and done it.  We use to live in Flagstaff, AZ and have Daughter and grandson in Phoenix so the worse climb temp wise is coming South on I-17 from Camp Verde for about 10 miles. The only time I have got the overheating buzzer twice with Grill Covers on. This is at the top of white band on Smart temp guage,(246*F) as I was reaching the top of the climb.  This not a problem with lower Grill Cover removed. :)  Just thinking you have a NRG so you could EV the tough climbs so you could use Grill Covers all the time. :)   Do you have a ScanGaugeII or OBDII gauge to measure WT, TFT and AI temps?

 

Paul 

[stevedebi]

Well been there and done it.  We use to live in Flagstaff, AZ and have Daughter and grandson in Phoenix so the worse climb temp wise is coming South on I-17 from Camp Verde for about 10 miles. The only time I have got the overheating buzzer twice with Grill Covers on. This is at the top of white band on Smart temp guage,(246*F) as I was reaching the top of the climb.  This not a problem with lower Grill Cover removed. :)  Just thinking you have a NRG so you could EV the tough climbs so you could use Grill Covers all the time. :)   Do you have a ScanGaugeII or OBDII gauge to measure WT, TFT and AI temps?

 

Paul 

I have one, but I don't use it. I used in on my Escape Hybrid, but just never really felt the need with the Energi.

 

The HVB doesn't last long on highway uphill slopes. I generally shoot for using both ICE and HVB in those situations. But on a long uphill, even 5.6 KWH doesn't last long.

[ptjones]

I have one, but I don't use it. I used in on my Escape Hybrid, but just never really felt the need with the Energi.

 

The HVB doesn't last long on highway uphill slopes. I generally shoot for using both ICE and HVB in those situations. But on a long uphill, even 5.6 KWH doesn't last long.

I still think there is an aerodynamic improvement having Grill Covers on from the testing I did early on. :) I have sold a few Grill Cover Sets to NRG owners.

 

Yesterday I drove around for Lunch (about 12 miles) with OT 90*F, Center and Lower Grill Covers on and speeds of 45-55mph no A/C and averaged Mid 60's mpg.  WT only got up 191*F, not even operating temps of 202*F+ and IT +10*F of OT.  With high OT of around 90*F my average on this tank is hovering around 58mpg.  Last tank I got 56.1mpg, 740mi. so as you can see my Fuelly Average is up to 47.2mpg. :)  You can leave Grill Covers on all year long unless you going on the FWY for a long trip with temps in the +80's or going long uphill climbs. :)

 

The estimated EPA Gas Mileage of 42mpg city/37mpg Hwy/40mpg is a joke if you have Grill Covers on and even if you don't if you drive your CMAX like a Hybrid IMO.

I think now my City mpg is around 70/Hwy mpg 52/ combined mpg 58 IMO :)

 

Paul

[jackalopetx]

I still think there is an aerodynamic improvement having Grill Covers on from the testing I did early on. :) I have sold a few Grill Cover Sets to NRG owners.

 

Yesterday I drove around for Lunch (about 12 miles) with OT 90*F, Center and Lower Grill Covers on and speeds of 45-55mph no A/C and averaged Mid 60's mpg.  WT only got up 191*F, not even operating temps of 202*F+ and IT +10*F of OT.  With high OT of around 90*F my average on this tank is hovering around 58mpg.  Last tank I got 56.1mpg, 740mi. so as you can see my Fuelly Average is up to 47.2mpg. :)  You can leave Grill Covers on all year long unless you going on the FWY for a long trip with temps in the +80's or going long uphill climbs. :)

 

The estimated EPA Gas Mileage of 42mpg city/37mpg Hwy/40mpg is a joke if you have Grill Covers on and even if you don't if you drive your CMAX like a Hybrid IMO.

I think now my City mpg is around 70/Hwy mpg 52/ combined mpg 58 IMO :)

 

Paul

 

Keep in mind you have no idea what the temperatures are under the hood. All you can see is coolant temperature.

 

How do grille covers affect the temperature of the electric motor? The wiring? The computer? How will the longevity of compenents be affected?  Nobody knows 

[ptjones]

Keep in mind you have no idea what the temperatures are under the hood. All you can see is coolant temperature.

 

How do grille covers affect the temperature of the electric motor? The wiring? The computer? How will the longevity of compenents be affected?  Nobody knows 

This isn't true, first IT( intake temp ) is air which comes from the ICE compartment into the intake maniforld, which I monitor.  Second the electric motor/generators are inside the CVT which you can monitor with OBDII gauge as well as TFT(trans fluid temp.). I monitor FTF, IT, WT and SOC when I drive.  Thirdly the Inverter has it's own cooling system as well as CVT.  The ICE computer is in the car, so temps shouldn't be a problem their.  BTW I have 135k mi. on my CMAX and I'm getting as good as mileage as I have ever gotten. :)

 

 

Paul

[fbov]

Grill blocks are a standard hypermiling modification. Lots of happy mod'ers out there. Paul's done his homework, knows where Ford needed the excess cooling capacity (steep grade at high ambient temp). Very little chance of overheating unless you drive long, steep hills in Summer, and then, you just take them off, or pass on them in the first place. 

 

Paul drives to GA to AZ on a regular basis, so he has experience through TX. He's documented lots of good data. albeit in many posts...

 

Have fun,

Frank