fbov Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 id rather only deal with 3-4 pieces as opposed to over a dozen...I find 1 piece of pipe insulation per grill works fine... you notch the tube around the vertical stays. Of course, if you have fabrication facilities, go for it!Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb9153 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Why not just use foam? It's the cheapest method, foam costs under $2 here for a package of pipe insulation. It's also very simple since all you need are scissors. And you can reuse the same foam pieces year after year so there's no on-going work or cost. If you push the foam in all the way it hides very well.could you take some pics of this installation? I'm having trouble picturing in my mind how you make this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb9153 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 the sheet aluminum cost me nothing, I have a bake bender at work. so all I'd have in it is time. We'll see how it goes...Wonderful, there are so many things I can see myself doing and fabricating for Maxus with aluminum sheets. But I lack the use of a good industrial grade bender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 What about the 2mpg HWY? MPG's are everything! LOL Grill Covers are only 2 things and only take seconds to put on and off. PaulI don't understand... could you take some pics of this installation? I'm having trouble picturing in my mind how you make this work?See this post: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/8364-stuffed-foam-in-grill-mpg-update/?p=76016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I don't understand... Not sure what you don't understand. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I don't understand... Not sure what you don't understand. PaulYour comment about 2 mpg highway with foam versus your grille cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 ame="ptjones" post="52198" timestamp="1416973474"] Your comment about 2 mpg highway with foam versus your grille cover.I don't see where foam improves aerodynamics over not. To reduce drag requires a smooth surface which the grill isn't. Grill Covers create a smooth aerodynamic surface. IMO Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb9153 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Ok I see what is being done here with the foam but excuse my ignorance in this mod. How do you keep from overheating the ICE if there's no fresh air flow into the radiator. This jus seems to be a weird way of gaining some MPG. I jus don't understand this whole thing. With my limited understanding it just seems Pauls tear-aways method is the best way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Both Grill Covers and foam cut down air flow to radiator and ICE. This shortens the heatup time and allows the ICE to stay at operating temp +202*F and from my testing both center and lower grills blocked off all year long. Only long uphill climbs require extra cooling from removing lower cover or use heater to manage temps. I leave upper grill open All the time, but I would block that grill too in real cold areas. Grill Covers add the improvement in MPG's from drop in aerodynamic drag. Paul obob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybridbear Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) Ok I see what is being done here with the foam but excuse my ignorance in this mod. How do you keep from overheating the ICE if there's no fresh air flow into the radiator. This jus seems to be a weird way of gaining some MPG. I jus don't understand this whole thing. With my limited understanding it just seems Pauls tear-aways method is the best way to go.When the temp is very cold this isn't an issue. Without foam the warmest the coolant gets here in winter is about 165-170 F. With the clear plastic grille covers like Paul uses you can get to about 180 F. With foam I can get to 185-190 F. This is on the freeway with ambient temps anywhere from -10 to 15 F. Colder than -10 and the coolant doesn't get as warm, warmer than 15 and it can get slightly warmed. All these readings are also with the heat running which lowers the coolant temp. Without heat you can get the coolant temp up over 200 F at around 30 F ambient. Edited November 30, 2014 by hybridbear ptjones and obob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 When the temp is very cold this isn't an issue. Without foam the warmest the coolant gets here in winter is about 165-170 F. With the clear plastic grille covers like Paul uses you can get to about 180 F. With foam I can get to 185-190 F. This is on the freeway with ambient temps anywhere from -10 to 15 F. Colder than -10 and the coolant doesn't get as warm, warmer than 15 and it can get slightly warmed. All these readings are also with the heat running which lowers the coolant temp. Without heat you can get the coolant temp up over 200 F at around 30 F ambient.Just to clarify my numbers with LEXAN Grill Covers on on the FWY I see 215*F with temps -9*F to 20*F and will hit 230*F with few mile uphill grades with the heater on for a long time! I can adjust WT by turning Heater Fan all the way up and temp to HI if I need too. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) I been wondering with temps in 30's-40's and the ICE intake temp is 10-15*F warmer(40's to 50's) if this is hurting my warmup time and MPG',.so I made a TOP LEXAN Grill Cover. Also put foam insulation tape on underside of hood to try to seal it better too. I saw about a 5 degree rise in ICE Intake temp, and I averaged 62.6MPG for a 13.6mi round trip to store. OT was 50*F, next I will tape up the whole front end, Lights,Fog Lights, Grill covers and hood to see if I can get a bigger differential from OT to ICE IT. :) Paul Edited December 21, 2014 by ptjones JAZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Leave the covers off. It's not worth risking it. If you damage the engine, you are looking at a $10,000 bill from the stealershit, and warranty wont cover it. A 3 MPG difference is less than $40 over the course of the entire winter. You are looking at tens in thousands in repairs if you mess up to save about as much money as needed to feed a small family for one meal.On the other hand, it would be nice if someone could program a hack update to run the vehicle in S3/4 at all times. Completely remove the warm-up period for the ICE. That would do a lot more. Edited December 26, 2014 by SPL Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Leave the covers off. It's not worth risking it. If you damage the engine, you are looking at a $10,000 bill from the stealershit, and warranty wont cover it. A 3 MPG difference is less than $40 over the course of the entire winter. You are looking at tens in thousands in repairs if you mess up to save about as much money as needed to feed a small family for one meal.On the other hand, it would be nice if someone could program a hack update to run the vehicle in S3/4 at all times. Completely remove the warm-up period for the ICE. That would do a lot more.I realize you are new to this thread so I will recommend that you start from the beginning of this thread to get up to date. I have two years/ 84K mi. Testing Grill Covers with ScanGauge to monitor ICE temps. I currantly have the whole front end covered and with speeds 55mph or less, went 320mi. And highest ICE WT was 227*F /65*F OT and Averaged 67.4MPG. I'm think most people would be impressed with MPG's like that. Paul Jus-A-CMax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 ... On the other hand, it would be nice if someone could program a hack update to run the vehicle in S3/4 at all times. Completely remove the warm-up period for the ICE. That would do a lot more.It would also be against Federal law. That warm up period is part of the EPA pollution controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxanotcar Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 To reponse to the post from ptjones "Posted 20 December 2014 - 06:06 PM": I have the similar setup for months now since last year. Mine self-adhesive rubber/foam ($6 for about 30ft roll with thickness of about 1/4inch) is taping at bottom instead on to the hood. I do not block the center grill, but I placed a one-piece soft-rubber where the two flimsy vinyl pieces that come with the car. My last check was it actually blocked about 72 to 76% of rain/salt+snow mixture blowing into the engine compartment. About the rain/water+salt snow mixture blowing into the engine compartment, I posted about this many months ago. With the CMAX front cover (where the front - grill is) is actually made of plastic, it is not easy to fully close it unlike Nissan Maxima engine compartment seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obob Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 To reponse to the post from ptjones "Posted 20 December 2014 - 06:06 PM": I have the similar setup for months now since last year. Mine self-adhesive rubber/foam ($6 for about 30ft roll with thickness of about 1/4inch) is taping at bottom instead on to the hood. I do not block the center grill, but I placed a one-piece soft-rubber where the two flimsy vinyl pieces that come with the car. My last check was it actually blocked about 72 to 76% of rain/salt+snow mixture blowing into the engine compartment. About the rain/water+salt snow mixture blowing into the engine compartment, I posted about this many months ago. With the CMAX front cover (where the front - grill is) is actually made of plastic, it is not easy to fully close it unlike Nissan Maxima engine compartment seals.Could you post a picture ? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I dont understand why there is any need to install covers. The CMAX already has shutters which I assume stay closed until the engine reaches operating temp, no? I dont know why they would be open if the engine is not at operating temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I dont understand why there is any need to install covers. The CMAX already has shutters which I assume stay closed until the engine reaches operating temp, no? I dont know why they would be open if the engine is not at operating temp.The problem is the Shutters don't seal very good at all and cold air gets around the shutters too. Grill Covers block most of the air going through the grill. If you want to know the whole story on why Grill Covers start reading from the start of this thread. It will answer all your questions. We have been working on this for two years. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I disagree that the shutters open when the CMAX is stopped all the time. I would not consider that a fact. Five times I have stopped my CMAX, gotten out, and looked upfront and the shutters were closed. This was when it was 80 degrees out too. That said, I have never checked when the engine was at full operating temp, just within the first mile or so of driving. Edited January 5, 2015 by SPL Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I disagree that the shutters open when the CMAX is stopped all the time. I would not consider that a fact. Five times I have stopped my CMAX, gotten out, and looked upfront and the shutters were closed. This was when it was 80 degrees out too. That said, I have never checked when the engine was at full operating temp, just within the first mile or so of driving.I didn't say the Shutters weren't closed, I said when they are closed they still let a lot of air through so that is why Grill Covers work so well. It would appear you still haven't the whole thread yet. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I didn't say the Shutters weren't closed, I said when they are closed they still let a lot of air through so that is why Grill Covers work so well. It would appear you still haven't the whole thread yet. :) PaulI was not referring to your post .i was referring to the OP's post on page one. He said the shutters are open when the vehicle is stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) It would also be against Federal law. That warm up period is part of the EPA pollution controls.Okay, well non-hybrids do not have warm-up periods. You start the car and drive it. So how is it any different between starting a standard car and driving it compared to programming a hybrid to do the same thing? Standard cars do not have warm-up periods. Even with no warm-up period, a hybrid still produces far less emissions overall than just about any non-hybrid car out there. Edited January 6, 2015 by SPL Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I was not referring to your post .i was referring to the OP's post on page one. He said the shutters are open when the vehicle is stopped.The Shutters operation changed when FORD changed the ICE program in July 2013. :) Paul hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 The Shutters operation changed when FORD changed the ICE program in July 2013. :) PaulDid that change as part of the fuel economy ECU flash? What did they change about the shutters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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