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I don't use Eco Mode


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55 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:02 AM

I'm old too and stopped driving like that a long time ago. I use the five mile over rule also. But in my twenties I liked going fast. When I was a teenager I owned a 69 Camero 396 that was very quick, but quick was expensive. My 87 Integra, which was new was very fast. Thankfully I made it through my wreaklesss years!

 

This is why the insurance rates for under 25 year old males is appropriately insane (although then a lot of them drive uninsured).

 

As to the other poster, yes, you need to accelerate in order to merge into traffic, which was what I first said early in this topic (why the Prius is, in my mind, unsafe).  I think the other poster, though, was talking about just accelerating in general (which doing fast isn't a good idea and wastes gas -- I was taught VERY early on to drive carefully and as a result have always gotten great mileage even out of vehicles that weren't supposed to do so.  Accelerating slowly, anticipating signals and taking your foot off the gas before you come to them is just common sense.  Amazing how my wife can't tell that a mile from where we are going at 60mph the light is red and thus she has to slam on the brakes when she gets up to it.  I've given up even trying to educate her).


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#42 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:23 AM

Which is fairly crazy.

 

In my youth, in Nevada (when we had no speed limits on the highways) I drove in excess of 130mph between Vegas and California (once you got over the line you needed to be careful).  And that was insane -- statistics here don't lie, and speeds in excess of 55 promote highway fatalities in almost an algorhymic fashion.

 

Yes, I'm an old man, but I drive 5mph over whatever the posted limit is and if folks don't like it they can go around me (I do stay in the right lane when possible).

 

I've read some of what Utah has released from studies done as they've raised the speed limit on their freeways. They have found, with raising the speed limit to 80, that it seems to actually be making things safer (less crashes). 



#43 OFFLINE   Kelleytoons

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:40 AM

If so that's contrary to the (very) large study done by the DOT when they did lower the National limit to 55 (auto fatalities when WAY down).

 

My guess is the study is too small to be of any use (or the sample size is skewed -- no offense to my Utah buddies, whom I have several, but that whole state skews very oddly demographically, for reasons you can probably guess).



#44 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 11:50 AM

This is why the insurance rates for under 25 year old males is appropriately insane (although then a lot of them drive uninsured).

 

As to the other poster, yes, you need to accelerate in order to merge into traffic, which was what I first said early in this topic (why the Prius is, in my mind, unsafe).  I think the other poster, though, was talking about just accelerating in general (which doing fast isn't a good idea and wastes gas -- I was taught VERY early on to drive carefully and as a result have always gotten great mileage even out of vehicles that weren't supposed to do so.  Accelerating slowly, anticipating signals and taking your foot off the gas before you come to them is just common sense.  Amazing how my wife can't tell that a mile from where we are going at 60mph the light is red and thus she has to slam on the brakes when she gets up to it.  I've given up even trying to educate her).

 

Thank you.  That's exactly what I meant. 



#45 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 03:24 PM

I think I cited this attachment before in this forum (but could have been another).  It's a long but interesting read.  There's a lot that goes into setting speed limit.  Crashes are only one part as you can't set speed limits to zero and maybe 80 mph makes more sense on some interstates than 70 mph even though the severity of a crash at 80 mph is likely greater than one at seventy.
 
"A change in the speed limit almost always changes the mean speed of traffic. However, the changes are not always proportional. For the most part, the change in the mean speed of traffic created by a change in speed limit is around 25 percent of the change in the speed limit.7 In other words, a speed limit increase or reduction of 6 mph (10 km/h) yields about a 1.5 mph (2.5 km/h) raising or lowering of the mean speed, respectively. When this statistic is combined with the power formula equating change in mean speed to crash risk, it is evident that lowering the speed limit will reduce crash risk, and raising the speed limit will increase crash risk.
 
Whether the safety gains/losses associated with the change in the speed limit is worthwhile must be examined in the context of maintaining reasonable mobility, and other system objectives. In addition, the policy context must be considered because the relationship between travel speed and speed limits indicates that the percentage of violators increases when speed limits are lowered and decreases when speed limits are increased."
 
Attached File  fhwasa12004.pdf   7.27MB   0 downloads


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#46 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 05:45 PM

The item that Plus 3 Golfer mentioned, that increasing the speed limit only changes the mean speed of traffic by 25% of the change in speed, is exactly what Utah is seeing. They increased the speed by 5 mph, from 75 to 80 but are only seeing the average speed of traffic increase by 1.5 mph. To further combat this, they are largely doing away with the cushion (10% or 5 mph) that the highway patrol has previously given speeders -- instead they are pulling people over if they are above 81 or 82 mph. Instead, they are finding traffic tends to run at a more uniform speed.

 

It is an interesting point about the study done when the speed was lowered to 55, compared to the studies Utah is doing. It is true that Utah's studies are very limited -- by design. Basically, Utah is requiring a study to be done, each time, before permanently raising the speed limit of a particular stretch of highway. As such, the study is only for a limited section of road and takes into account the actual speeds drivers are traveling. Additionally, the US study was much broader, including not only rural Interstate Highways but two lane roads, urban driving, etc. One other issue is the technological differences in the 30 years since the US study was done -- cars typically can drive higher speeds more safely than 30 years ago, particularly with advances such as Electronic Stability Control and, as they become more common, lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, and other automated driving technologies.

 

Of course, the flip side of this is that Utah is talking crashes being reduced, I haven't seen them address fatalities. And there are some interesting arguments about what the speed limits should be, particularly in western states where Interstate highways run through long stretches that are very sparsely populated. For example, you have about 200 miles of I-15 in Utah with minimal towns (maybe 10), and only one of those towns has a population above 3,000 and none with even 5,000. This was a major issue when the 55 mph speed limit was passed, with drivers in the Western States claiming it ignored the empty stretches of highway the frequently drive by forcing them to the same standard used on the much more populous East Coast. It is an interesting debate with some strong opinions on both sides.

 

Of course, with technology advances, it seems like it would make a lot of sense to have variable speed limits, where the speed limit is posted on electronically controlled signs, with speeds that vary, based on weather conditions and even time of day. One of the things I've found odd is how states, like Texas, are getting rid of night time speed limits, at the same time they are raising speed limits to speeds that are unsafe to drive at night.



#47 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 06:12 AM

Around here the traffic density and hills would make me nervous to drive much faster than traffic on a regular basis.  I think what people talk about with hybrids is the electric torque and probably one of the first cars people experience with a CVT transmission - so there's no lag in acceleration once it does start rolling.  Now that I've driven hybrids I don't want to go back to a traditional car, they aren't sports cars but they are fun to drive in their own right - plus less of a gas penalty and typically a car with more upscale trim.  My dream car would be a Tesla S or X but I would just get into trouble with that, the C-MAX is much more practical and is one of few cars where you can get a panoramic roof for less than $30,000.



#48 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 06:33 AM

Out of curiosity, what kind of mpgs are you getting when you drive at 80 and 85 mph? Also, how does the C-Max handle at those speeds?

With eco-cruise set around 85 mph (set with gps), the trip computer will read about 35 to 36 mpg but the trip computers are usually off from actual by about 4-5%. Also, with eco-cruise I'd say the average speed is likely slightly less than 85 mph and there is the occasional slow down passing cars / trucks. This FE is with AC on and about 500 pounds of passenger / cargo weight on the stretch of  I20 in both directions between Monahans, TX  and around  the junction of I10 with I20 about 80 miles.   So, for the 80 miles of trip computer data, I would say that 33-34 mpg is likely closer to the "real" FE at a "true" 85 mph average speed.

 

Handling is good at 85 mph.  I have no issues but it's hard to compare without testing other cars at the same time.



#49 OFFLINE   jackalopetx

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 10:02 AM

I think the speed limits are getting too high for peoples' reaction time, headlight quality, etc

 

But really fatal crashes tend to be due to drunk driving, no seatbelt, no helmet



#50 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 10:49 AM

Out of curiosity, what kind of mpgs are you getting when you drive at 80 and 85 mph? Also, how does the C-Max handle at those speeds?

I get 36 at 78 MPH. Eco cruise will range from 76 to 80. That was on a 1800 mile round trip through the desert.

 

The C-Max handles fine at high speeds.



#51 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 12:37 PM

Variable speed limits are a very good idea.  There's no justification for flying along in the fast lane at 80 mph in the pouring rain with a 1/2 car length between you and the car in front.   It's just as bad in England---if not worse.



#52 OFFLINE   nsteblay

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 02:26 PM

I think it is just a matter of time (5 years probably) that acceleration issues with cars will be a thing of the past.  Electric motors have maximum torque at zero speed. Assuming the electric engines are sufficiently powerful, acceleration of an EV will beat an ICE easily.  If you haven't go test drive a Tesla.  As batteries get better and car manufacturers get better at electric and hybrid designs, muscle cars will be no more.  

 

Given the state of the technology, I think Ford achieved a good balance with the C-Max hybrid.  With my 2013 C-Max I'm still amazed I get 43+ MPG yearly average and have no issues with adequate acceleration in a competitive big city commute environment.  

 

Toyota with the classic Prius has always favored maximum MPG over acceleration, visibility, style and comfort.  The strategy has worked for sales volume.


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#53 OFFLINE   jackalopetx

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 07:21 PM

I think it is just a matter of time (5 years probably) that acceleration issues with cars will be a thing of the past.  Electric motors have maximum torque at zero speed. Assuming the electric engines are sufficiently powerful, acceleration of an EV will beat an ICE easily.  If you haven't go test drive a Tesla.  As batteries get better and car manufacturers get better at electric and hybrid designs, muscle cars will be no more.  

 

Given the state of the technology, I think Ford achieved a good balance with the C-Max hybrid.  With my 2013 C-Max I'm still amazed I get 43+ MPG yearly average and have no issues with adequate acceleration in a competitive big city commute environment.  

 

Toyota with the classic Prius has always favored maximum MPG over acceleration, visibility, style and comfort.  The strategy has worked for sales volume.

 

I think the reason Toyota sells the most is name recognition. Prius is virtually synonymous with hybrid



#54 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:41 AM

Yeah, apologies to Ford but I think Tesla is in a whole other class of truly electric car - as far as I can tell there is no "transmission" - the power is provided by one independent electric motor for each wheel with speed synchronized by computer since computers are fast enough to do that now, the battery life is finally better, etc.  This is where I expect a lot of cars to be within the next 30 years.

 

With all that new technology right now comes a premium price tag, plus they also do customer service differently, maybe you have to when there aren't that many mechanical things that need changing.

 

I like my C-MAX too, it's a good compromise.  My friend offered to pay for gas if I pulled over so he could buy a soda and he was surprised to learn that the tank was almost still full after we had driven an hour and a half.  Through an accident of marketing the SEL is a very nice car for an affordable price (used).


Edited by jestevens, 06 June 2016 - 06:42 AM.

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#55 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 11:56 AM

Yeah, apologies to Ford but I think Tesla is in a whole other class of truly electric car - as far as I can tell there is no "transmission" - the power is provided by one independent electric motor for each wheel with speed synchronized by computer since computers are fast enough to do that now, the battery life is finally better, etc.  This is where I expect a lot of cars to be within the next 30 years.

 

Tesla's use one motor per axle (rear wheels on all models, also front wheels on "D" models). So there is still a gear reduction and a differential, essentially the same as our cars when driven with only the electric motor. There are a few cars with one motor per wheel, but they are pretty exotic at this point.



#56 OFFLINE   Adrian_L

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:33 PM

Yeah, apologies to Ford but I think Tesla is in a whole other class of truly electric car -

 

So what?   It's not an Aston Martin either!     Comparing the C-max to a Prius makes sense, but this doesn't. 








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