Nervous but Excited

@fbov urg... the saga continues. We wanted to go to Rocky Mountain National Park this weekend, but we realized that we would be required to have chains on the car (even though we have Blizzak snow and ice tires on the car). ...So... Any recommendations for which "snow chains or alternative traction devices" I should buy for our once or twice a year trip to a location that needs them?

Any chance that this will be cheaper in a year from now?

!) I agree with the terrible turning radius (and want to understand why it's so terrible). 2) I am interested in Seat Back Protectors too :)

Thanks @fbov. Great video - I'll look into some more of his work. You've reinforced my opinion though. Bottom line is that we are going to buy dedicated snow tires exclusively because we are worried that at some point in the winter we might hit some glare ice. If we could be guaranteed that there is no glare ice I would probably just buy a pair of 3PMSF tires and forget about seasonal rotations. Feels kinda crazy to go through all that effort for such a marginal improvement. I think the extent of my risk aversion is in large part due to my ignorance of winter conditions in CO. I don't really know how frequently we will encounter glare ice... But I don't want to find out the hard way.

Urg! @fbov! You've made me think too hard about this! haha. According to CODOT Tires that are marked with M+S are legally acceptable for all conditions. Even when there is a sign next to the highway indicating that chains are required to proceed (I've pasted the law below). I currently have the following tires on the car: Sentury UHP All weather 225/50zR17 98w M+S And then there is theoretically also the option of tire cables if the weather gets really really ugly. Sooo... Given the above... is it really necessary to go through the hassle of storing and rotating snow tires?! And if your answer is "yes", but only because these are not the best M+S tires... Then maybe I should just buy some top rated M+S tires instead?! At the moment I think that the current tires would be good enough for 95% of our driving... but that 95% probably ain't good enough, and that we should get Blizzaks to cover the last 5%. Especially since we plan on driving up I-70 a few times this winter to go skiing. Any insights would be great! I'm from South Africa and this is my first winter so I am trying to figure everything out - thanks for the help! ****************************************************************************************** Traction Law (from https://www.codot.gov/travel/winter-driving/tractionlaw#collapseTwo) During winter storms, or when conditions require, CDOT will implement the Passenger Vehicle Traction Law. CDOT can implement the Passenger Vehicle Traction and Chain Laws on any state highway. During a Traction Law, all motorists are required to have EITHER: 4WD or AWD vehicle and 3/16” tread depth Tires with a mud and snow designation (M+S icon) and 3/16” tread depth Winter tires (mountain-snowflake icon) and 3/16” tread depth Tires with an all-weather rating by the manufacturer and 3/16” tread depth Chains or an approved alternative traction device

Thanks fbov! Although all season tires are very tempting I am too scared to risk it. I'm in Boulder Colorado and plan to head up I-70 frequently for skiing. Why are your X-Ice's too small? Or do you just mean that they are 215/60-16 instead of 225/50/17?

Any 2021 updates for best snow tire options? Or are we sticking with 215/60-16 and Blizzak/X-Ice tires?

I'm super interested in this topic too. As far as I understand it you can move from 17' to 18' without a problem. Not sure about bigger than 18' though. I do think that bigger tires will reduce your MPGs tough (basically the car has to do more work to turn the wheels)

All of these responses have helped a lot! I really appreciate this community! Excited to learn more about the car over time. Thanks everybody!

OKay - I finally made the move and bought the Energi. Exciting times! Until we sort out a more permanent solution I will need to run an extension cord about 100 feet to where the car is parked. I have not been able to find posts on this forum, but my research tells me that as long as I use a 10 gauge cord rated for outdoor use there should be no problems. I am considering this cord: https://www.amazon.com/GearIT-Extension-Resistant-Contractor-Appliances/dp/B07TS9PD8C/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=10%2Bgauge%2Bextension%2Bcord%2B100ft&qid=1641852551&sr=8-2&th=1 Please let me know if there is anything else to be aware of. THANKS!!!

This is strange. Seems to be contrary to much of what I have read on this site and elsewhere.

Yeah I did see that. My understanding is that he drove on EV NOW until it cut out (11 miles) and then drove back to the dealership (another 4.5 miles). Being far away doesn't make this easy. These results give me hope that there is a high enough probability that the battery is in good condition. I plan to fly to MN in the coming week. Once I am there I will do all of the tests in person and make sure to double check everything that I already believe to be true about the car. Tickets are about $75 one way, so if there is anything dodgy about the car I will just fly back instead of buying the car and driving home. I don't really know what other options I have right now. If you have thoughts about how I could be handling this better let me know.

No. No idea. I don't think there is a way to tell that. But to be honest this doesn't bother me much. The question that I am trying to answer is to what extent has the battery degraded. If the battery is able to put out 4.8kWh (which is energy, not power. Power is measured in Kw) then I can be relatively sure that it is in good condition.

Thanks! I really appreciate the affirmation!

@NRGTi have you had any further thoughts on this? I am considering buying a 2017 Energi with 70k miles on it. The battery seems to put out 4.8kWh in 13F temperature. It's really difficult trying to figure out whether that is acceptable. See this link for screenshots about the car that I am considering:

This screen is also quite nice:

This morning the salesman took the car for an approximately 11mile drive in 13F temp. And he spent 4.8 kWh doing so (see updated graph below). This seems to indicate that the battery is in okay condition. Yay ?

In an exciting turn of events I have gained access to the car via myfordmobile.com The car is currently charging, and tomorrow they are going to take it for an EV-NOW trip until the battery is depleted. My understanding is that myfordmobile.com will show me the total kWh output of the battery on the attached graph... This should be a super accurate indicator of the battery's capacity. At the moment the battery is about 70% charged and indicating that this amount of charge would get the car 7 EV miles... If that is accurate I suspect that the battery is severely degraded because then 100% charge would only get 10 miles... which is about half of a new vehicle. But maybe the car is making estimates based on the super cold temps in MN and the bad driving style of the people who have been test-driving it... any thoughts/insights here? I am really hoping that this will answer my questions about the battery. Exciting!

Hi again @Billyk24, The car that I want to buy is far away, so I asked the dealer to run these tests. The dealer replied with this note: "After a full charge, and driving till it drained, it showed 8.4kPh" I am assuming that he meant to say kWh and not kPh (although "W" and "P" are far apart on the keyboard). Aside from that I am really confused about how he would have achieved 8.4kWh... Is it possible to achieve an additional 2.8kWh from regenerative breaking? Unfortunately he wasn't sure how many miles he drove on the trip... He estimated 11 miles, but seemed far from sure (this was on a very cold day - about 20F). Any insights?

Hey @ChrisV could you tell us more about how you managed to do the damage? Were you on a dirt road? If so, how bad was the dirt road? I am considering buying a C-Max, but slightly worried about the low clearance as I want to be able to reach trail heads and rock climbing crags.

I am open to both the Hybrid and the Energi - although I have a small bias towards to Energi. Hybrid options (both have great Carfax and service history): 1) 2016, SE, $12,984, 91k miles. Build date is 3/16 so the transmission should be fine. From dealership. (https://collegewayauto.com/listings/2016-ford-c-max-hybrid-se/). 2) 2016, SE, $13,995, 61k miles. Build date is 9/16 so the transmission should be fine. From dealership. (https://www.autonationfordwestlake.com/used/Ford/2016-Ford-C-Max+Hybrid-c92a106f0a0e09a9358a1791c919573e.htm?searchDepth=1:1) Energi Options: 1) 2016, SEL, $12,500, 85k miles, Build date is 1/16 so the transmission should be fine. Comes with spare wheel, 4 snow tires, new brakes. Service record is good, **BUT** private purchase and was involved in a "moderate severity" accident (see carfax attached) 2) 2017, SE, $14,295, 70k miles, good carfax and maintenance. From dealership. (https://www.wolfmotors.com/searchused.aspx?q=c-max) Any thoughts or insights would be much appreciated! @fbov @cr08 @SnowStorm @Billyk24 you've all been really helpful before. I would really appreciate your thoughts! CarFAx.pdf

Thanks @eostrike. Given that I don't currently have the car and don't really know what's included in the Ford Pass... It's kinda difficult to imagine whether I would or wouldn't miss the features, haha.

Thanks @Billyk24 ... It seems as though getting a good sense for the battery is complex, but best done as you described by comparing the usable kWh to the 5.6 kWh expected from a new vehicle. thanks for the insights!

Thanks @cr08 and @eostrike My undersanding is that I should budget at most another $500 for this, and that there are no repercussions beyond that. Am I underestimating the problem here?

Am I right in understanding that many 2016 model year C-Maxes will have build dates in 2015 - and therefore be vulnerable to this issue? Very frustrating little problem if you're trying to buy a second hand car!