Aptos Driver

Our '12 Camry XLE hybrid is averaging 40 mpg. It generates 200 combined HP, 12 more than the C-Max. If MPG is a prospective buyer's primary concern, the choice is six of one, half of the other. But for buyers who want the utility of a crossover, and power approaching the Camry's, the C-MAX may be the way to go.

Yeah, I watched the videos. They're pretty scary. I wish they'd run this test before we bought our Camry.

As I've said before, the question is, "compared to what?" If you're comparing your real-world mileage to the EPA ratings, it seems that you'll be disappointed. But if you're comparing it to any gas-powered car with similar utility to the C-MAX, you'll be very satisfied. The fact (and it appears to be a fact) that the C-MAX doesn't get 47/47/47 doesn't bother me. That always seemed too good to be true. But it gets a helluva lot better mileage than my 6-cylinder '07 RAV4, which is why I'm seriously considering it as a replacement in a couple of years. I think the C-MAX offers an excellent compromise between power and fuel efficiency. But I want to see how reliable it proves to be after all you early-adopters have put 40,000-60,000 miles on your cars. So stop goofing off in this forum and get out on the roads!

55-60 mph is a sweet spot for our Camry hybrid as well.

I'm really not concerned about the C-MAX's gas mileage. I've always thought that the 47/47/47 claim was too good to be believed, because it stands to reason that a hybrid should get higher mileage in stop-and-go traffic when the ICE doesn't run as much, and lower mileage on the highway, when it has to run more often. Even so, with pulsing and gliding, you can make a hybrid switch over to EV briefly at higher speeds. I've seen our Camry switch over at 45-50 mph. For me, the C-MAX represents a good compromise between fuel efficiency and power, as opposed to the Prius v, which sacrifices power for efficiency. My main concern with the C-MAX is its longterm reliability. And I won't make any decision until it's been on the market for a while and Consumer Reports has finished their testing -- and all you brave early-adopters have shared your experiences, good or bad. I flirted with the Ford Fusion Hybrid for a couple of years while I mulled my decision on our first hybrid vehicle. I drove one a couple of times and liked the way it drove and handled. I did not like the lack of headroom in the rear seat (with a moonroof). But what ultimately put me off was complaints from owners about being stranded on the road when their 12-volt batteries unaccountably died -- and reports that Ford dealers didn't really know what to do about that and some other problems. I'm concerned that at least one member of this forum has reported that the battery in his new car gave out. I like this car. It's smooth and quiet and has plenty of pep when you need it. It's well equipped, even the base model. The price is right. Only time will tell if the car's right for me.

What's your route to and from work? We've gotten 40-plus mpg in our 2012 Camry hybrid driving from Santa Cruz up to San Francisco via Highway 17, 85 and 280.

Our only hybrid at this point is a 2012 Camry XLE; EPA fuel economy rating: 40 city/38 highway/40 combined. We've put 6,700 miles on the car and are averaging 40.6 mpg, per the car's computer. So EPA's estimate for our Camry seems to be on the money. Moreover, on extended, mostly highway, trips from Santa Cruz to the SF East Bay to see the grandkids (and their parents) we have routinely recorded 40-42 mpg, better than the EPA's 38 mpg highway rating. Of course, there is some slow-and-go traffic enroute on the approaches to the Bay Bridge -- where the battery/electric motor kick in -- which would help raise the trip mileage. And speaking of running on the battery, I've seen the EV light on the dash illuminate briefly at speeds as high as 45 when I feather the gas pedal and "glide" the car. And that's on a level road, not going downhill. The Camry has a 2.5 L gas engine and generates 200 combined hp between the ICE and the EV. It's surprising to me that our Camry hybrid seems to get better mileage than the 2 L, 188 hp C-MAX.

What's it look like? Have you posted a picture of it?

A 36-year-old Mercedes? That must be some kind of record. I once kept a Volvo DL wagon for about 15 years and 285,000 miles.

We're actually doing better with our '12 Camry Hybrid than the EPA estimate . My 3.5 L, 268 hp V6 4WD RAV4's overall mileage matches the EPA estimate and I've mostly exceeded EPA on highway mileage. But it's more car than I really need, as it's turned out. I bought it expecting to use it as my ski car in the winter (we "go to the snow" in the mountains out here), but on my first trip to Tahoe in Jan. '08, I fell on ice apres ski, and shattered my hip socket. Now I have a hip replacement and there's no way I'm going skiing again with that. So I'm "putting" around in this overpowered small SUV with 4WD I don't need. That's in part what's propelling me toward replacing it with a hybrid car sooner than later. Even though that doesn't make much sense economically -- the RAV doesn't even have 45,000 miles on it yet -- I now want a hybrid replacement because I've enjoyed driving the Camry hybrid so much -- it's my wife's car. I've never been able to warm up to the Prius. The C-MAX would be ideal for putting around, but can also hold its own on the road. I really enjoyed the C-MAX I test drove the other day (a fully loaded SEL). The only question about it that remains for me is its reliability. I'll be watching this forum to see what, if any, bugs it turns out to have.

I just saw it; didn't check to see if one of you guys had already posted it. I see you're averaging better than 42 mpg over 840 miles so far. That ain't shabby. Are you driving "normally" or with an extra-light touch on the accelerator? And are your roads and highways mostly flat, or do you have frequent changes in elevation?

With the assurance that I have no "agenda" other than informing myself about the C-MAX, and at the risk of waving a red flag in front of some forum members, I'm sharing a report (via the LA Times) from Consumer Reports on C-MAX and Ford Fusion hybrid gas mileage. As is their custom, CR testers bought their cars from dealerships. Their tests on the C-MAX and FFH are still ongoing, but they're reporting that after driving these cars 2,000 miles each in various conditions, and "adjusting for ambient temperature" they were unable to achieve anything close to EPA's mileage ratings for either car. CR reports that the C-MAX returned 35 mpg in city driving, 38 on the highway and 37 mpg overall.CR also said that compared to other vehicles they've tested against EPA ratings, this was an unusually large discrepancy. The LA Times also tested the car and couldn't do better than 37.5 mpg overall. So if gas mileage were my only consideration when shopping for a hybrid to replace my "gas guzzling" '07 RAV4 V6, the Prius v would win hands down. But it's not. I'm also looking for power and a smooth, quiet ride. In other words, once its reliability has been proven in real-world driving, I could be quite happy with a C-MAX, even if its real-world fuel economy doesn't measure up to the EPA rating. (Was that rating supposed to be "close enough for government work"?)

Cool. Keep it up!

I'm no nerd but I wish I'd been one (it's too late for me now), because nerds rule! Thanks for all that good information. I didn't know that EPA uses pure gasoline in its cars. What's the reason for that?

Nope, no "particular agenda" here. I actually like the C-MAX at first blush -- a lot. I hope that it proves as reliable as it is enjoyable to drive. As I noted in the other thread -- and I apologize for starting a redundant new one -- when judging real-world mpg, the question is "compared to what." If your only comparison is what EPA says it got and what you actually get, you're likely to be disappointed. But if you're comparing it to the gas-engine SUV you already drive (as I am as I consider replacing my V6 RAV4 a couple of years hence), then even a paltry average 38 mpg looks great. Normally, I keep a car 10 years, but I'm seriously thinking about replacing my RAV4 at 7 years because I like our '12 Camry hybrid so much. But we don't need another Camry; we need a vehicle that will serve us the way the RAV4 does -- occasionall hauling around items that are too bulky to fit in even a conventional car trunk, but also return significantly better mpg than the RAV's 21-22 average around town. For that, I want a hybrid. At the moment, there are only two such vehicles out there: the C-MAX and the Prius v. I haven't driven the Prius yet, but I'm underwhelmed by its 134 combined mpg. I plan to rent one for at least a day and put it through its paces, driving literally over hill and dale. And with respect to our Camry hybrid -- I actually have gotten better than 50 mpg at times, although I get 42-46 in stop-and-go traffic more often. We are averaging 40.6 mpg overall at the moment. And on trips up to see my daughter, son-in-law and grandkids in the SF Bay area -- via Highway 17 from Santa Cruz, I-280 (at the limit) to Highway 101 through San Francisco to the Bay Bridge and Highway 80 to El Cerrito (the latter two stretches being pretty congested most of the time) I routinely get 40-42 mpg. I drive with a pretty light touch on the accelerator, use cruise control wherever I can and don't drive over 65 mph. No agenda here, I'm just sharing.

Mea culpa

But overall, you're averaging 38.9 mpg according to Fuelly. You've got a way to go to hit 47 mpg in all kinds of driving.

You should be able to get the advertised city mileage, driving on surface streets at slower speeds and stop-and-go. We have sometimes gotten as much as 50 mpg in our '12 Camry hybrid in such driving. In city traffic your C-MAX will use battery power more. The testers took their cars out on the highway. The EPA rating indicates that the C-MAX should get 47/47/47 mpg in city/highway/mixed driving. The testers' reports indicate that the C-MAX isn't getting this kind of mileage on the highway.

Real-world results of road testing by Green Car Reports and Consumer reports indicate that neither the C-MAX nor the new Ford Fusion Hybrid live up to their EPA mileage ratings.

After I'd driven for a bit, I realized I didn't need to set the driver's seat as far back as I had, which no doubt reduced the rear-seat leg room on the driver's side.

How were you able to take the car home for "a few days" without buying it? Did the dealer lend you a demo? Did you rent it? Ford dealers around here do not rent their cars, otherwise I would've rented a Fusion hybrid before deciding on a Camry hybrid. Any way, I'd like to know how you got a dealer to spring one loose for you.

OK, I finally test-drove a C-MAX SEL this afternoon. First impressions: Front seats are very comfortable and there's lots of room for long-legged drivers and front-seat passengers. I found the rear seat too cramped. I'm 5'11" and the seat pitch reminded me of flying in coach. Back to the front -- did I mention that the leather seats are comfortable? Power adjustment ability is great. Even the highest-level Prius v still only has manually adjustable driver/front-passenger seats. I forgot to ask if the seats were heated. I could imagine taking this car on a road trip, but I'd be reluctant to inflict that on more than one adult passenger, except maybe for my mom, who's barely five feet tall. As for driving, the C-MAX is smooth, peppy and fun to drive. I drove it on surface streets in stop-and-go traffic and on the freeway, where the car merged with oncoming traffic with gusto and ascended a couple of pretty good grades at the speed limit (65 mph) with no sweat. The electronic steering was firm and steady compared to the comparatively looser-feeling steering of our Camry hybrid. I felt connected to the pavement. The transitions from gas to electric and back were seamless; I couldn't tell when they were happening. The mileage for the trip, however, was well below the EPA's 47/47/47 rating rating -- the car reported about 37 mpg at the end. The car probably would've done better if I'd taken it on a longer drive that wasn't all hills. But it's the hills I'm concerned about, because we have to negotiate them with some frequency here on California's Central Coast. And in any case, as I mentioned in an earlier post, gas mileage compared to what? Thirty-seven MPG is a damn sight better than the 22-24 MPG I might be able to score over the same stretch in my '07 RAV4. Aside from the spedometer and gas gauge, I found the instrument-panel display confusing at first. It's not intuitive like the display in our Camry hybrid. But I suppose I could get used to it. I played with the radio a bit and found that somewhat awkward. I didn't try the Ford Sync or MyTouch. This model had the panoramic sunroof which is a nice touch, I guess. (I'd rather have a moonroof.) The C-MAX's cargo space is sufficient for our purposes. Bottom line: I could see myself in this car, plus my wife, and my grandkids when they're a bit older. I don't think it works well for four adults, let alone five. But then, that's what we have a TCH sedan for. So maybe in a couple of years, after the early adopters have weighed in on their longer-term experiences and Consumer Reports has rated its reliability, I'd buy one. The best way to go about that, I'm told, Is through Ford's X-Plan. First established for Ford employees, this no-haggle purchase plan is available to non-employees through partners or whatever you want to call them. For instance, Notre Dame University employees can use it. And for a better instance, anyone who joins the Experimental Aircraft Association ($40/year) can use this plan after being a member for a couple of months or so. If you haven't bought a C-MAX yet and are seriously considering it, you can check out the pricing here (parner code NDUNV) -- for the C-MAX or any other Ford/Lincoln model car.

I'm going to a nearby Ford dealer today for a test drive -- just to satisfy my curiousity at this point. I won't get serious about replacing my RAV4 for at least 18 months, and more likely two years.

The farthest I drive on the freeway -- when I leave the immediate neighborhood -- is about 4 miles to an area with a Trader Joe's, a shopping mall and couple of other free-standing retail stores, plus the local Toyota dealer. I try to keep to the the right-hand lane at 55-60 mph as much as I can. Many times, someone has come bombing by me at 70 mph, only to wind up abreast of me at the traffic signal at the head of the exit ramp. Driving with some finesse is superior to pedal to the metal.

Well of course, the longer the trip, the bigger the difference in arrival time between 65 mph and 60 mph. Most of my freeway trips involve distances of 10 miles or less. Over these distances, driving 60 or even 55 mph doesn't matter much to me in terms of when I get to my destination. So I save gas and actually reduce my risk of having an accident by driving more slowly than other motorists and maintaining a safe distance between my vehicle and other cars/trucks/SUVs. As I said, if I have to pass slower traffic ahead of me -- to avoid cars entering the freeway and bypass congestion caused by cars driving more slowly than 55 mph and tailgating each other -- then I drive the limit, 65 mph. I try to get out of the way of the fools who insist on driving faster and tailgating me as soon as I can safely do so.