Aptos Driver

If you're not in a hurry, you can always drive 55-60 mph on a two- or multilane freeway, as long as you don't block the "fast" lane(s). When I drive locally, I never go more than 4-5 miles on the freeway, and being retired I'm in no hurry. So I stick to the right lane as much as I can and try to hold my speed to 60 mph max -- whether I'm driving our TCH or our RAV4 (and especially with the RAV4). I'm a much more relaxed driver at this speed and I find that the people in the slow lane are nicer. And naturally my mileage is better this way. Of course, I occasionally have to move to the left to avoid vehicles entering the freeway from onramps (nobody knows how to merge anymore; the idea of yielding to oncoming traffic seems totally foreign now). And when I do, I drive the limit. When in Rome ...

"Smaller dog" -- cute. Maybe I'd need a smaller macaw? Thanks for your evaluation.

For me, the most important aspect of improved MPG is "compared to what?" For example, when I decided we should replace my wife's '00 Volvo S70 with a hybrid of some stripe, it was because I didn't see any advantage in replacing it with a newer gas-model car with the same average mileage. (Even at 12 years young, the Volvo was averaging better than 24 mpg around town and could still hit 27-30 mpg on the highway.) I figured if we're gonna replace it, let's get a car that averages at least 40 mpg. I was never interested in the Prius because I wanted a car with more horse power, for quick merging on freeways and for passing. There were two choices: the Ford Fusion hybrid or the Toyota Camry hybrid. I started ruminating about this decision in 2010. I rented an '11 Camry hybrid for a weekend -- from our local Toyota dealer -- and test-drove a Lincoln MKZ hybrid (same drivetrain as the FFH) -- the same weekend. At that time, the Ford/Lincoln had more horsepower than the Camry, but the Camry seemed to drive more smoothly. I finally decided for sure on the TCH when Toyota came out with the beefed-up 2012 iteration -- 2.5 L Atkinson gas engine and 200 combined hp. I rented one for a weekend and found it to be a substantial improvement over the 2011 model. We bought one at the end of June. Now I want a hybrid to replace my '07 RAV4, with similar utility. The RAV can get 27-28 mpg on the road, but the best I can get out of it locally, where I mostly drive it, is 21-22 mpg. That looks pretty paltry compared to the TCH's 40-41 average mpg. At the moment, the obvious choices are the Prius v or the C-Max. There's also the Lexus CT 200h. I have yet drive any of them. I will rent a "v" for a weekend and will test drive the C-Max. I'm eager to test drive the C-Max soon, to see whether I would really like it. The most important criteria for me are reliability, ride smoothness, power and at least a soupcon of luxury. Our '12 TCH LXE provides all three. I'd consider the Lexus for the luxury aspect, except it runs on the Prius drivetrain and Consumer Reports wasn't impressed with it as an entry-level luxury car. In any case, I won't be making a move until 2014 at the earliest. I expect there'll be some interesting developments by then. For example, I just read on another forum that Toyota may bring a hybrid RAV4 to market for the 2015 model year. Ford could make some changes in the C-Max. Toyota might come out with a beefed-up "v" for people like me who're willing to give up some MPG for more power. Or Lexus might drop a 200 hp drivetrain into their hybrid hatchback and improve the interior fit and finish. Or, who knows? Also, by then I'll have a better idea of the C-Max's reliability, always a big concern for me. In the meantime, I wish all you early adopters the best of luck!

All's I know about this stuff is that our '12 Camry hybrid is averaging better than 40 mpg over some 5,000 miles. I don't much care how many of those miles were solely on EV. All I care about is the bottom line at the gas pump! :hysterical:

I'm also following the Prius v forum over at Priuschat. Thanks.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you as well. I sniffed around the Ford Fusion hybrid when I started considering replacing my wife's 2000 Volvo S70 with a hybrid sedan. I decided against it because Ford wasn't selling enough of them and I was concerned about reliability and Ford service departments' ability to deal with whatever problems might crop up. I ended up buying a 2012 Camry hybrid (XLE with all the trimmings). She and I love the car, and we're averaging over 40 mpg in mixed driving. This has whetted my apetite for a hybrid utility vehicle to replace my six-cylinder '07 RAV4 in a couple of years. One of the things I love about our Camry is the power that's available when you want it -- 200 hp. The Prius v's 134 combined hp sounds pretty anemic to me (I have yet to drive one). I like the C-Max's combined 188 hp (I haven't driven a C-Max yet either). But I want to see what Consumer Reports thinks about it and, frankly, how first adopters like you fare with it. By the way, the Ford Fusion Hybrid used to have a 2.4 or 2.5 L gas engine and 205 combined horses, but now has a 2.0 L gas engine and only 188 combined horse power like the C-Max. I don't know why they scaled it back except maybe to goose gas mileage.

Unfortunately, I can't send you a personal message; the site won't allow it because I haven't posted 40 times yet.

SKWCRJ -- How do you like your v (vee)?

When I worked and commuted, I regularly drove 20K miles/year. But now we barely put 12-13K miles on our cars annually. As I may have mentioned, 5 1/2 years after buying my RAV4, new, I still don't have 45,000 miles on it. I bought both the RAV and the Camry hybrid new, for cash, no car loans. In the past my practice has been to drive my cars "into the ground." That's what I did with my first Volvo and close to it with my second and third. (The second one, a '97 850, was the best ever; we gave that one to my wife's brother for his son to drive; at the time, it had 150K miles on the odometer. When I got the RAV and disposed of the Volvo 850, my wife got the last Volvo, a 2000 S70, that I bought slightly used, for cash out of a rental fleet -- the 850 had also been a rental. The S70 had "only" about 125K on it. I just decided that it was time to replace it.) This time around, however, I think I'd like to swap the RAV for a utility hybrid while the RAV's still worth something, assuming I decide to sell it; I might give it to one of my daughters. But I'm in no rush. I learned the hard way never to buy a new vehicle in its first model year back in 1975 when I bought a first-gen carburated VW Rabbit. The car was a disaster; a true lemon. It was even yellow. I've read that the hybrid drivetrain in the C-Max is the same or similar to the one that was in the Escape hybrid. But I've also read that it's brand new in some respects. Consumer Reports has yet to rate it; there's no crash-safety data on it yet. Toyota may bring out a next-gen Prius in the next couple of years (with more power, quieter cabin, better ride?), so I'll watch and wait for a while.

Two RAVs in 5 1/2 years? I generally keep a car 9 or 10 years. I kept my first Volvo -- a 240 DL wagon -- nearly 15 years and drove it 285,000 miles. So if I replace my RAV4 after "only" six or seven years, that'll be an unusually quick turnaround for me. I hope you enjoy your C-MAX and I'm looking forward to hearing all about it.

What model year is your RAV4? I4 or V6? FWD or 4WD? Why did you decide to trade it in?

I checked, and learned that Toyota will offer an all-electric RAV4; no plans for a hybrid as far as I've heard.

The Camry hybrid is made in Kentucky, although the hybrid power trains come from Japan. Toyota claims the Camry has the highest domestic content of any car on the U.S. market. Ford has been building the Fusion hybrid in Hermosillo Mexico. Americans are not working on the factory floor there.

We bought a new, 2012 Camry hybrid this past summer. My wife drives it most of the time. We both love the car, which is averaging better than 40 mpg the last time I checked. Our other car (my car) is an '07 RAV4 Limited -- six cylinder, 4WD. I thought I'd be using it in the winter on ski trips up to the Sierra. But for reasons not worth going into here, it hasn't worked out that way. It runs great, doesn't even have 45,000 miles on it yet, but its gas mileage is paltry compared to the new Camry -- 18 mpg on surface streets, 23 mpg in mixed local driving, 27 mpg on rare longer-distance trips (which have become rarer since we got the Camry hybrid). So now I'm thinking about replacing it sooner rather than later with a hybrid with utility comparable to the RAV4. I want a vehicle that can haul things that won't fit in a conventional car trunk, has some power to spare and won't cost more than $30K before tax and license. Oh yeah, and with some creature comforts. I haven't even seen the C-Max hybrid yet, but everything I've read about it sounds encouraging, especially the part about the 188 combined hp. I'm in no particular hurry; I don't envision replacing the RAV4 before late 2014 or sometime in 2015, but I'm starting my "due diligence" now. So I'll be watching this forum to see what owners say about the C-Max, also Consumer Reports to see how they eventually rate it. And I'll be interested to see how Toyota responds to the competition. (Will they increase the Prius V's power? Go to lithium-ion battery technology?) In the meantime, I want to learn whether C-Max owners are satisfied with the way their cars drive and ride, and how reliable their cars prove to be (reliability is a big issue for me).