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Priceless... almost has me using emoticons... almost. You're seeing a lot of noise because you're looking at mileage in the range where its very sensitive to small changes in fuel consumption. Try looking at fuel consumption directly, gal/100 miles is commonly used, and the data will be much less noisy. - At 40 MPG, 1 cup of gas per 100 miles is worth 1 MPG. - At 60 MPG, that same 8 oz. cup of gas, is worth 2.5MPG. - At 120 MPG, it's worth 10 MPG! HAve fun, Frank

Be careful what you use for comparison. To me, it looks like the torque app is giving you the true SOC, while the car is showing you available SOC. The difference reflects the fact that the easy way to kill Li-ion is full discharge. At a true SOC of 20%, you want the load removed to preserve life - why not tell the user there's nothing left? Same at the high end; overcharging will increase capacity, but greatly accelerate the normal loss of capacity with age. Think of the car display as "charge available" and the Torque SOC display as "true charge level" and the numbers make sense. Have fun, Frank

The first thing a snake oil salesman does is attack the naysayers... and it's not an attack on a result or a test procedure, mind you, but on the person themself. If the data is unassailable, attack the reputation, or in this case, motivation. The next is to encourage bad data, "qualitative reports" which have no scientific value, over actual quantitative, repeatable, valid data, that may prove or disprove a product's benefits. I'm trying not to point fingers at people but rather at behaviors that scream "I've got something to hide!" These behaviors are fairly generic; a great example of the first is the NFL's response to the early data on brain injuries in football players. Of course, no one here is talking life or death, or billions of dollars, but human nature remains consistent... It's the difference between science and most other human endeavors, science can only be done in the open. Granted, proprietary research will not be generally published, and may not even be patented (e.g. Kodak's color film technology), but it's developed in an environment where all results are repeatable by others skilled in the art. If you lie, or even release erroneous results, it can end careers. Remember cold fusion? That said, science also requires an open mind, an ability to admit possibilities that we can't personally fathom, while retaining a healthy skepticism about what's actually true. I have yet to express any opinion regarding the performance of Gas Pods, and should I form one, it would disqualify me as a test subject. I can understand the naysayer argument, but I also know aerodynamics is a very complex subject where simplistic views are frequenctly false. An even stronger affect is "confirmation bias." We humans favor the results we expect; anyone who's purchased something has a strong positive bias toward their purchase... Think how you feel when you buy a new car. The bottom line is that science requires courage; y'all up to it? HAve fun, Frank, who will now leave this thread alone, to evolve as it's respondents see fit. PS Traveler, what's your baseline data tell you about MPG variability? The first step in any experiement is understanding the experimental equipment, it's responses and it's error characterisics (error in the sense of noise as opposed to incorrect action). I didn't say it was easy...

It's human nature to remember what you want to remember. If you make it interactive, folks will remember the journey, but they may miss your message, the conclusions you reach at the end. That's part of the fun, but... You're testing something that some consider snake oil. It's possible your test results will create a lot of "discussion." If you let things out in real time, those results, however varaible or pathalogical, will be used with the same veracity as your documented conclusions. "Anything you say may be used against you" applies, and I'd hate to see you embroiled in a true controversy because you tried to evaluate a product fairly and honestly, and happened to get results that someone disagrees with strongly. Your call... just pointing out that a body of data can be defended far easier than a body of opinion. Scientists do it all the time in peer review journals. Have fun, Frank

My pedantics were limited to a ~... organic calculators aren't usually precise, at least mine's losing precision daily! Have fun, Frnak

Laurel will be missed, and I think you hit the nail on the head - civility. A wise man once told me "Courtesy costs nothing, but it pays dividends." That wise man was a boy from North Ireland... teachers can appear anywhere! HAve fun, Frank, who will be happy if his first thread start fades into the past...

I don't know about you all, but I have a problem when an OP feels they need to withdraw all their posts from their own thread for any reason especially if they haven't posted since. Did we lose Laurel? She seemed like a nice lady... I trust someone in authority will take a look at the sequence of preceeding events. Remember, there are faster ways to destroy a social web site than bashing the topic product... Ford isn't Job 1 here, people are. Have fun, Frank

+1 Perhaps moderators will have better luck... my comments fall on deaf ears.

Don't tell my wife my new tent has AC!

Two comments, Jus... - you're posting too often Daily data is noisy and so misleading. Give it a week or a tank, and control for things like weather and temperature (bigger problem in my neck of the wood that yours, I know). I'd hate to see you quoted out of context... - bad move reporting MPG. Miles/gallon is highly non-linear with fuel consumption; it's been called the "MPG Illusion." Convert to gallons/100miles for a well-behaved response. Put another way a cup of fuel - 8oz. - is a 1mpg change or a 3 mpg change depending if you were getting 66mpg, or 40 in the first place. Since a cup is always a cup, report that. We'll understand the variaibility when you only show a few ounces difference (0.02 gal. is ~2.5oz.) Have fun, Frank, who'll tell you the first day's mileage after yesterday's PCM update, but that's it for a month...

SA and tech said they had no idea what IDS was, and couldn't print anything out of the laptop... I didn't ask for a photo. However, the car was ready at 11AM, and there was no sign of signifcant fuel use. I suspect the dealer's got this process down. That said, first trip on an established route gave benchmark mileage for the temperature, compared with pre-update - 49.7@52F. EV+ is wiped out but I get to EV above 63MPH. HAve fun, Frank

I expect it all depends on occupany... Your problem statement can be interpreted as something one might do at home on cold nights. In fact, it looks more like you're talking about informal "car camping." (It's a good car for it.) I would expect Ford to be very noncommittal regarding leaving a vehicle active and unattended. If you in fact are asking about active and occupied, and phrase it that way, you may get a different answer. Ask how long the car can maintain the internal environment while stuck in a traffic jam. Katrina's a good example. Have fun, Frank

Anyone a second owner? We inherited ours from my in-laws, registered it in NYS Sept 9. The check was issued in early October and delivered to their vacant house in my FIL's name. It becomes part of the estate... I'm wondering if Ford is rebating initial purchasers, or current owners... Have fun, Frank

Since you bring up comprehension, why do you think the manufacturer is telling us, very unambiguously, to check it? Perhaps Ford knows it's a source of a lot of false positive activations of the MIL, and having users affect a remedy ends up better for everyone involved. Remember, every time you have to call the dealer due to a problem, Ford loses money on the call. In the service and support business, the cheapest way to service a car is to have the customer take care of it themselves. If that remedy fails, you bring it in for Ford to find out which of the 999 other things it may be. Guessing why it's on is not productive. Screening the simple reasons, as directed by documentation, is the first step to problem solving. Have fun, Frank

Working with Win7, IE 9.0.8112, behind a corporate firewall. Most of the time, there's no problem. Liinks retain my log-in when opened. It's a regular-but-occasional thing, just enough to keep my from posting more than I already do, not a bad thing overall. I've been active on DIY loudspeaker forums for years, setting an expectation of very rare failures with their forum SW (vBuilletin, vBadadvanced). That doesn't mean something's not broken on my end; point me where I should look. Thanks, Frank

I got multiply updated today; I'll let folks knwow what they tell me... Frank

I've had a couple cases of Check Engine light, including yesterday on my way to the dealer for the recalls. First time, it went out after I filled up (no specific action). This time, it's after a 2-fill-up trip over the weekend at vapro recovery stations (little hood over the nozzle; thankfully not required in upstate NY). It'll be interesting to see what the dealer does, if anythign... I forgot to mention it. Part of me misses the gas cap... they were very good for propping open fueling valves on disabled pumps so I could check oil and wash windows without keeping anyone waiting. Of course, it does't take long to fill a C-Max... HAve fun, Frank

Porter went in for first local service today. Van Bortel Ford in Fairport NY. First thing the service advisor did was "take a little data" but he went out with paper floor mats and a sheet of plastic... Looks promising. BTW, found the receipt for the car's first service. No updates, just an oil change at 5K miles... 2 weeks before my father-in-law went in for surgery. Makes you wonder if he was getting his affairs in order... HAve fun, Frank

Just back from burning a couple tanks on the Interstates... worst mileage so far - 38 MPG going West (into prevailing wind) with unladen car and a tank of Sunoco 93 but dry roads - 33 MPG going East with a full-but-not-laden car and a tank of 87 from a vapor recovery pump, with rain and more rain. Lots of things contribute, but this marks the end of Phase I - Porter's in for 13B07, and the others a well (MFT, liftgate, door chime). In response, the unusually nice Fall weather is leaving... last 70F day for a while I expect! HAve fun, Frank

There's a difference between knowledgable and rude, which you may want to explore...

Doc, I trust you're looking in the mirror as you say that...

Adair, your AC was on... the only thing MAX Defrost adds is selecting recirc, and putting the AC on MAX AC which puts the fan on MAX. All logical features of a "MAX" setting. It doesn't matter what the display says, "AC On" or "AC Off", you get AC in defrost mode. At least I get colder-than-ambient air whenever I run the defrost without turning up the temperature, which I don't do, to increase my %EV. I can't recall seeing a domestic car without it... HAve fun, Frank

Research comes in 2 forms, looking for information that someone else gathered, and gathering information that others will look for. I think you mean the former while I'm going to talk about the latter, as my wife calls the car "my science project," and she's right! As to whether I'll gather data that others find useful, we'll see. With a sample size of 1 (my car), and some 1-way updates (like 13B07 PCM), I'm doing a 1FAT study. That means I only change 1 Thing At a Time, then take copious data before making other changes. You see the affect of each change, but you get nothing on interactions among the test variables. Test Design - 2 standard test routes High MPG - stop/go with 35-40 mph limits, Low MPG - expressway with 55-65 mph limits. - primary response variable is the location on a plot of MPG vs. Temperature locus of points in a scatter plot curve fit parameters (e.g. slope and intercept of a line) statistical methods (e.g. ANOVA) when things are close current data: Test Plan Phases - Purchase/break-in by first owner (Oct. 2 - Aug. 9) inherited the car from my Father-in-law - Learning (Aug. 9 - Sept. 3) I gave myself a month to learn to drive a hybrid consistently - Baselining (Sept. 3 - Oct. 15 (I hope)) Try to drive with a consistent style over the two routes, Interim results attached; strong temp effect in stop/go, but none for expressway?? - PCM Update (Oct 15 - it starts to snow) Scheduled for Oct. 15 Timing is dealer- and weather-dependent; going to Vermont for Thanksgiving, and taking no chances! - Snow tires (Dec - April) While rated "LRR" I expect the tire change will be large Using an aero wheel cover to blunt the increase in RR - Aero Mods under consideration (April - October, 2014) hood seal improvement rocker panel skirt chin spoiler on air dam rear tire skirt (like the one on the front tires) aero wheel covers grill block Kamm-style mod to lift gate Gas pod-like devices Notes on aero mods... The only aero mod I've found that "fits the C-Max" is stick-on rocker panel skirt and air dam material. I would use it as-is for the skirt area and rear tire, trim it to height for the chin spoiler and front wheel skirt extension. I also think this is the stuff to fix the hood seal. The current hood seal is bad; it only touches the hood at the ends, with an gap that fits fingers without compressing the seal. Plus, it ends at the grill, leaving the stretch to the headlight open. Wide tape would give a short-term fix, and I may test it that way to see if it's worth fixing. I'm thinking the rocker panel skirt material might be just the ticket for an openable seal; mount it to the underside of the hood and trim it where there's excess, like near the headlights. I'm making pizza pan wheel covers for the snows, but the concept only works well on steel wheels. The spokes on the c-max alloys leads me to look at brake shields as a better way to prevent air expulsion to the side. The only question is if the spokes themselves act as an aerodynamically rough surface, causing losses beyond the air injection issues... and now that I look at the price of Kleen Wheels, can I do something equivalent from a DIY perspective? Grill blocks are low on the list because a) top grill is engine air intake and will benefit from hood seal, and b) the lower two grills both have louvres. We'll see what the 13B07 update does. I'm hesitant to make bodywork changes, but that's what a permanent Kamm-back would involve. Conversely, all the aero guides I find say you only get big gains in Cd by mods in the rear. Perhaps Gas Pods are the no-bodywork equivalent? This is too far off to say what the next test might be. Comments welcomed; there's a lot of things that could change the plan, but this is what I'm thinking today... HAve fun, Frank

Manual says you can have 8 keyhead transmitters and tells you how to program them, but... It's mum on how may fobs (e.g. intelligent access) you can have, besides stating that the dealer needs to program them. Have fun, Frank

That's not the half of it... C/D TEST RESULTS: Zero to 60 mph: 8.8 sec Zero to 100 mph: 23.8 sec Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 8.6 sec Standing ¼-mile: 16.7 sec @ 86 mph Top speed (governor limited): 118 mph (emphasis added) Braking, 70–0 mph: 191 ft Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.77 g *Stability-control-inhibited Given Car and Driver measures speed directly, I have to wonder how steep a hill you needed to get those last 13 mph after the drive train cut out... or did it? Have fun, Frank