Jenie Benson

Yep, sure would have. But after 2 years of wrestling with this, we have thrown in the towel, requested buy back and started looking at different models for our next vehicle. Depending on how agreeable Ford is about buy back, it is possible we'll be buying from them again. The dealership we've been working with has been great and kind and as helpful as they could be. We're thinking of sticking to a less complicated technology for the next vehicle however. After all the hassles with the dealership trying to diagnose the gremlin plaguing our Cmax, we don't feel comfortable gambling on having to deal with that again. It's a shame. I really do like driving this car. If they could have repaired it last winter, I'd have been a happy camper.

My letter is officially sent requesting buy-back. The problem has returned with the winter weather and the frequency has increased.

I listened to the sound your car makes. Mine is similar, but a lower pitch and only happens at a certain RPM range when the car is below about 40 degrees and only when the ICE is running. My husband has been convinced it's the transmission, but every Ford tech working with my dealership remotely has said it was something in the headliner or roof of the car or in the ANC system (which they messed with so much that it no longer works properly and causes my bluetooth to garble so I can't even use voice commands cause the car can't understand me). This weekend, I'll be compiling my data to send my letter to Ford requesting buy back under our state's Lemon Law. I'm through messing with this. My 36K warranty will be up after this weekend's driving (like I told the previous Ford regional guy - I am not interested in letting Ford run out my warranty and then charging me to fix an issue I never should have been dealing with for multiple years). You might say, I'm a bit ticked off at Ford at this point after their regional guy said point blank "Ford will not buy your car back". To which I reminded him that in Minnesota, we have laws about such things and my car has already met the guidelines of being a lemon per how many warranty days in the shop and how many times back for the same issue they were unable to fix. And then he blew me off. I think he thought he could make me go away. :doh: I'll let you all know how the lemon law thing comes out and if I end up having to get a lawyer. :rant2:

Thanks for the advice. I'm rather partial to hatchbacks, so I'm looking to get something with that same styling. Not sure what just yet, but a few things have started to look worth researching.

Nope, no resolution on this yet. It was 38 degrees out this morning and the noise has returned (it doesn't happen during nice warm summer weather). It has never happened before above 32. I have had very little time to put together a letter asking for buy back under lemon law in my state this summer, and figured they were going to insist on one more chance to fix it even though they have had more than the legally required days to do so and they wouldn't be able to recreate the issue until it was cold, so I didn't stress out over getting that all put together. I do, however, have all my service records printed out and ready to attach to my letter when it is finished. I also heard from the dealership that the regional manager that was so unhelpful (and kinda rude) to me is no longer the regional manager of this area, so I might give it one more go talking to the new regional manager to see if I can get anywhere with that. I have decided though, that I do not want another hybrid at this time. There is too much fancy stuff and the technology (at least from Ford) is still too new. I'm gonna go with something a bit more tried and true for a while and maybe come back to hybrid at a later time. I will miss the quietness of the electric engine, but not the loudness of the combustion engine in cold weather. And I will miss the gas mileage, though I have started looking at new cars and if I stay with a smallish car, I can probably get something with about 40mpg, which is pretty decent. If you take your car back on a colder day, pay attention to when the noise happens (for me, it's at a specific RPM, not any particular speed and it's under a certain temp range - which appears to have gone up to under 40 instead of under 32). Pay attention to if it happens with any particular accessory on (heat, radio, etc). Pay attention to if the noise kicks off when the electric engine is running (mine does, it only makes the noise when the ICE hits that magical RPM range). If those things sound like your car, it's not the tires, it's not the ANC, it's not an aftermarket roof rack, it's not your driving style, it's not the motor mounts, it's not normal for that model car or any hybrid for that matter - some people have been told "well, hybrids make weird noises". It's likely a harmonic resonance native to the vehicle as a whole that is amplified under certain temperature conditions. No amount of fiddling with the car will ever find it. My car is proof of that.

What you probably read if you read the other thread all the way through is that my dealership and I have come to the conclusion that the source of the noise is vibration in the drivetrain somewhere, but that it is being transmitted through the car and amplified by the ANC. That is why when pulling fuse 22 in my car and listening carefully, I could still hear the frequency, but it was quiet enough that had it always been there at that level, I never would have noticed it. The RPM range is right in that 2300-2500 range and for my car it has to be under 35 degrees outside (so it doesn't present itself in the warmer months). My dealership tried replacing a motor mount that they thought was the culprit. They used one that is actually for a Focus which was from a TSB for a similar issue a few years back. However, that did not solve the issue. Currently, Ford has ZERO idea what is causing this exactly or how to fix it and keeps directing my dealership to fiddle with the ANC to try to get the noise to stop. However, all attempts to do that resulted in a hands free system that can no longer understand me when the ICE is engaged because it's trying to cancel too much noise. I don't have the panoramic sunroof, so I doubt that's an issue. Mine is an Energi, but I have chatted with others who have the non-Energi and have the same issue. So far, Ford is declining to admit there is really a problem even though there are a number of us with this same issue. I asked to initiate buy-back and was told Ford wouldn't buy my car back by a regional Ford rep, so I'll be forced to sue under the state's Lemon Law to make it happen. Sad too, cause this was really the car I wanted, and I love it except for the totally unfixable issue which has made driving it on the interstate at cruising speed in the winter unbearable (it vibrates through the wheel and seats and makes my hands hurt and my body tired if I have to drive more than just around town). And I love the MPG, but not enough to put up with the problem anymore.

Well, I just got off the phone with the same regional Ford guy I've chatted with during this whole ordeal and got the same baloney canned answers. I was hoping someone would finally get me in touch with someone who had the knowledge and the power to buy back my car or help initiate the process. Instead, I got told that regional Ford hadn't followed up with the dealership about my last repair (which didn't fix the car) and considered my car fixed because the repair order was closed and I'd picked up the car. That's an interesting way to determine if something is fixed, don't you think? Well it wasn't fixed, which is why I went back to the dealership to have them write a new repair order without any labor stating they verified the problem wasn't fixed. However, regional Ford didn't follow up with the dealership, they just took the paperwork they had and ran with it. Now I'm being told that unless there is a verifyable problem and they can make a new repair order (yes, he actually asked me several times if I would be bringing my car to the dealership to have the cold weather issue verified in mid-July) that Ford can't do anything to help me and I'll just have to wait until the problem resurfaces and go back again to have the problem worked on. When I asked how many times Ford expected me to keep having to go back for the same issue, he tried to explain how warranty works. I had to remind him that in this state, there is a set number of times that Ford can require me to keep coming back for the same not-fixed issue and that I'd already passed that threshold. I was trying to reach out to Ford for buy-back directly and make this all a lot less painful on everyone involved, but he told me they would NOT buy my car back. I reminded him that there are laws in this state and based on those laws, I already had enough days in the shop to force Ford to buy my car back under Lemon Law. Then he back-pedalled to say yes, well I have that option. I guess Ford has decided they would like me to sue them under Lemon Law. I can tell you this - that one regional customer service guy, who is the only one for this region he told me - is enough to make me think twice before buying a new Ford once this is over. I'm gonna miss this car, but I am not gonna miss the incredible hassle it has been.

I've sent a PM to Meagan in hopes of getting information on initiating buy back asap. Life got in the way for the past couple months, but I'm still frustrated with this car and not being able to use my hands free stuff over the past 6 months since they fiddled with my ANC at the dealership. And i know as soon as winter comes, my original problem will still exist and I'll be ready to drive the car through the front window of the dealership and leave it there. So buy-back initiation here we come. Here's hoping Ford wants to stand behind their good name and their product and refund me for this hunk of junk.

They exhausted all suggestions related to ANC and the issue persists. At this point I am giving up due to lack of confidence they have any idea what is wrong. I think they should have offered to replace my car already, but they haven't which leads me to believe that ford thinks I should just put up with it, but that is a pretty expensive annoyance for your average consumer.

Definative to tell us what? Yes, the dealership pulled Fuse 22. Yes the car did not make an ungodly amount of noise or vibration while the fuse was out. However, we could still hear the same pitch while at those RPMs which led the tech and service writer and myself to believe that the ANC was amplifying a noise that the car was making at those RPMs, but no one could figure out where those noises were coming from exactly to be able to determine if there was something that needed replacing to prevent a future failure of a defective part. The dealership tried a few things and found that when they jammed a piece of 2x4 under one of the hydraulic motor mounts that the sound changed, so they thought it was that motor mount causing the noise that was being amplified. So they switched that mount with one that is technically not even for this car. No dice, noise was still there the next time it was cold enough to test it. You can't just pull the fuse and call it good, that disables other stuff in the car like most of the speakers for the stereo and the hands free stuff for phone and navigation etc. I have detailed nearly everything done to my car to date on this forum. I was rather persistent and the dealership spent a lot of time on it (more than I think most people's dealerships have spent so far), but the problem has not been fixed. I can't justify paying Ford to be their guinea pig. I was willing to spend this kind of money on a car with the expectation that if there was something major wrong with it, they would fix it in a timely manner. More than a year (or 2 winter seasons) is not timely. I don't want to keep driving this car and wear out the factory warranty on it or keep putting on miles and depreciating it only to find out there was something actually defective that is major to the car that is causing this (like a transmission or something very $$) and be stuck paying for it later when Ford should have fixed it now. I decided a couple months ago I probably needed to make a clean break from this car and move on. Ford can do whatever they want with this car once they buy it back, but they've lost me as a hybrid customer. My confidence that they know their car inside and out is shot since they have not been able to fix it. So I'll be going back to a standard gas engine car for a bit more peace of mind - tried and tested technology that's been around more than a couple years.

Definative to tell us what? Yes, the dealership pulled Fuse 22. Yes the car did not make an ungodly amount of noise or vibration while the fuse was out. However, we could still hear the same pitch while at those RPMs which led the tech and service writer and myself to believe that the ANC was amplifying a noise that the car was making at those RPMs, but no one could figure out where those noises were coming from exactly to be able to determine if there was something that needed replacing to prevent a future failure of a defective part. The dealership tried a few things and found that when they jammed a piece of 2x4 under one of the hydraulic motor mounts that the sound changed, so they thought it was that motor mount causing the noise that was being amplified. So they switched that mount with one that is technically not even for this car. No dice, noise was still there the next time it was cold enough to test it. You can't just pull the fuse and call it good, that disables other stuff in the car like most of the speakers for the stereo and the hands free stuff for phone and navigation etc. I have detailed nearly everything done to my car to date on this forum. I was rather persistent and the dealership spent a lot of time on it (more than I think most people's dealerships have spent so far), but the problem has not been fixed. I can't justify paying Ford to be their guinea pig. I was willing to spend this kind of money on a car with the expectation that if there was something major wrong with it, they would fix it in a timely manner. More than a year (or 2 winter seasons) is not timely. I don't want to keep driving this car and wear out the factory warranty on it or keep putting on miles and depreciating it only to find out there was something actually defective that is major to the car that is causing this (like a transmission or something very $$) and be stuck paying for it later when Ford should have fixed it now. I decided a couple months ago I probably needed to make a clean break from this car and move on. Ford can do whatever they want with this car once they buy it back, but they've lost me as a hybrid customer. My confidence that they know their car inside and out is shot since they have not been able to fix it. So I'll be going back to a standard gas engine car for a bit more peace of mind - tried and tested technology that's been around more than a couple years.

No resolution on my car, in fact some of the things they tried to make the noise go away actually disabled parts of the hands free system. Now when I'm cruising with the ICE engaged and I need to talk to the hands free system the car says "I'm sorry, I didn't get that" and asks me the question again. It can't call people from my phone book anymore and when I ask it to read text messages received after it alerts me, it doesn't understand what I've asked for and hangs up on me. I can't talk to people using hands free either, even if I can dial the phone cause when using blue tooth with hands free, my voice is garbled to the person on the other end when the hands free is on. I've given up hope that Ford can fix my car. I don't have the time to allow them to experiment on my vehicle any more and since the issue only happens in cold weather, we are stuck until it gets cold again with nothing anyone can do. I will be filing MN Lemon Law this summer in hopes to be rid of this frustration before the winter rears it's head again. (someone from Ford on here who said they could help me, please PM me with where I send my letter requesting buy back cause I'm in the process of writing it). 2 winters of this issue with the first winter being told "hybrids make extra noises" and no one believing me because they couldn't replicate it and the second finally getting them to acknowledge the problem and then spending a lot of time with Detroit being convinced it was the active noise cancelling system and fiddling with that only to break that and my hands free system without so much as touching the actual issue and the dealership getting creative (to which I thank them for their effort, regardless of how fruitless) and then running out of cold before anyone had any real answers and I'm just done paying this much money for a car that is unbearable in the winter when cruising on the interstate due to a headache inducing noise and vibration. Sad to say, but I can't keep this car. If anyone ever figures out what the real issue is, I might buy one again, but I'm swearing off hybrids for now and going back to a regular gas engine that the mechanics know more about. As soon as I'm free from this burden, I'm car shopping for something that won't be quite as great as this car (I really do love the way it drives/handles and it's cute as a button), but that I won't have to be embarrased about and feel cheated on the payments over.

This morning was 27 degrees and was apparently cold enough to test things out. The car is not fixed. The noise and vibration persists. I ran to the dealer quick as soon as it acted up to have them verify and write up a work order stating that (since part of my problem has been having someone at the dealership actually verify in the past, I wanted it recorded immediately that though they worked on it for weeks, it was not fixed so Ford can't fight me on "maybe it's fixed" - verifyable NOT fixed). I've decided I'm done messing around with this car. I got my service history printed out and will be drafting a letter to Ford to initiate buy back. I hate that I have to do this, but I simply can't justify the kind of money car costs to have to be in to the shop a large portion of the cold days and still not have it fixed, nor anyone have a clue what's causing it. It's more trouble than it's worth when it was supposed to be peace of mind for daily transportation along with great mileage. I'll just have to find something else I like that gets great mileage cause I'm not convinced that if I got another of this model of a newer build that I wouldn't just start the headaches over when it's cold again. So the letter to Ford will be sent asking them to take the car back and refund the entire purchase price of the car (along with taxes and fees, etc and the gap insurance and extended warranty as well since I won't get a chance to use any of those things). Not sure at this point what I might get in replacement. This thing gets such excellent gas mileage, I'm going to be hard pressed to find something anywhere near it. I average 50 mpg over the course of the year (I get a lot of electric miles in the summer to offset lower winter mileage). It's disappointing that Ford hasn't stepped up their game already to make this right. Far too many visits for the same issue, far too many visits in general for warranty related items in the first year of ownership, far too little attention paid to my complaints by the dealership until I played hardball, and the only thing I've been offered in compensation so far are 20 days to choose from one of two service or warranty packages that really aren't worth all that much to me. I'm prepared that they are gonna stall and balk and try to bully me into keeping the car - as corporations are want to do. The more they do that, the less I'm apt to purchase a different Ford once this situation is resolved. I don't think it's a bad brand, or a bad dealership, but this is a bad car / a lemon - which is why the law here in MN related to buy back is called the "Lemon Law". Guess we'll see just what kind of company Ford is once the paperwork is sent in.

Got my car back Monday evening. They replaced the passenger side engine mount with some kind of slightly different one that is actually for a Focus and was supposed to resolve a similar issue that car had a few years back. However, it's unseasonably warm here now and no one is able to test for the symptoms of the problem due to the lack of freezing weather. It wasn't even cold enough early this morning when I left for work. I could hear what I thought sounded like the same frequency slightly as I was driving, however it can be hard to tell with all the other traffic noise. If it doesn't get good and cold for a few more days, we may not be able to know until winter if this is fixed and my husband isn't inclined to wait and depreciate the value of the vehicle with more miles while we wait (since we already had to wait a year to get someone to finally acknowledge the problem and already depreciated it enough). Got a follow up call from the regional Ford guy yesterday. Slightly laughable. He was following up now that my car had been "repaired". I had to correct him several times to let him know that I don't consider it "repaired" until it is tested and proven, even though the work order is completed. He offered a choice of some freebies from Ford that do little to no good at cushioning the blow of the crap I've gone through with this car so far. A maintenance package that covers oil changes and tire rotations - no thanks, this car is getting me 8-9K on each oil change and I'm married to a mechanic who can rotate my tires at home for free (or I could do it myself) and oil changes at home are not expensive or hard either - so what that would get me about $70 a year off of maintenance for the next 3 years, hardly compensation. Or he offered a Premium Care Extended Warranty until 75K miles. Well, I already bought the extended warranty until 100K miles offered by the dealership at the time I got the car, so that isn't really gonna do me any good either. Apparently those were the options from his pre-approved short list of freebies for customer service issues. I was not impressed. I will be going to the dealership in the next week to get copies of all the paperwork, etc related to the laundry list of things the car has been in for over the past year and a half under warranty to start drafting the letter for buy-back. I've had to waste far too much of my time and extra gas money, etc trying to get the car fixed and the whole reason I bought the car was to have something much more reliable than the ones I'd had before, not to be in and out of the shop all winter. If Ford wants to keep me driving their latest and greatest technology in a car I love (by the way I love this car and it is not an easy decision to decide that I am at the point of asking for buy back) then I suggest they offer to buy this one back for what I paid for it (given the issue surfaced after I had put on only 800 miles) so I can purchase the newer version that I hope has more of the bugs worked out. Though I might wait until winter and a cold day to test drive it to ensure it's not got the same cold weather issue as this one did. And even then, I will have the strange request that the dealership leave it outside on the lot overnight to get nice and cold since I think I may have known this car had an issue if it hadn't been parked on the showroom floor up until shortly before I test drove it. It's killing me that this had to be the year spring decided to come all at once and is showing no signs of slowing down. In a normal year, we'd still be waiting for the snow to finish melting and it would get cold enough each night to test the car in the morning. The snow is gone and the puddles absorbed into the ground already.

Well, still not 100% positive, but last week while it was still cold, they had done a lot of troubleshooting at the dealership and found that potentially the liquid filled motor mounts were the issue. That when cold, that liquid did not cushion the vibration of the engine as they are intended to do and instead, they stiffened up and caused transfer of that vibration to the rest of the car where it was amplified by the noise cancellation system (apparently there was a nearly identical issue with a different model car a couple years ago). They ordered the old style rubber motor mounts to replace, but the parts took a while to get here and now it is over 50 degrees out and we have run out of winter time to test once the repair is completed today. I am not sure what to do at this point. They might have fixed it, however, I have no way to verify that and neither do they. I'm not sure I want to depreciate the vehicle by another 6 months of mileage only to find out when winter comes again that this isn't fixed.... :sad: The dealership and Ford and I will have a lot to talk about in the next couple of weeks regarding what happens from here.

That is good news.

well, I think we have forward motion again. Dealership called to say they'd been instructed by Ford to tell me to come get my car while engineering "worked on a solution". I told them "no" and then called Ford corporate and the regional manager to tell them also "no". That answer was unacceptable. How could they find a solution when they didn't even know what the real problem was being caused by if they didn't have my car to troubleshoot on? Pure insanity. So I had a nice long conversation with Ford corporate about how this has been multiple times in for the same issue, still not fixed and I simply could not pick up the still not fixed car and wait while they run out the clock on both cold weather and the time left for filing for buy-back in my state (should I need to do that, but OMG I really do not want to do that cause I love this car when it works right). I must have rattled the right cages cause the dealership just called to say they have some very concrete diagnostic stuff to try on the car and that extended rental car usage had been approved/covered by Ford corporate so they could hang onto my car to work on it some more. They think there may be either a faulty microphone (or multiple) in the active noise cancellation system, a faulty module in that system or perhaps the whole system is faulty. They have some specific tests to do now to determine this. And someone from Ford corporate acknowledged to my dealership that they have dealt with a few of these across the nation already with the same issue. Finally - acknowledgement from Ford that they are aware of the problem and have some kind of clue how to go about getting it fixed!!!! :yahoo: For anyone else on here still struggling to even get acknowledgement of your issue, I will continue to post updates about my situation in hopes that you can use the information to help your dealership get you taken care of. You may also want to call Ford corporate and speak with someone in their Hybrid and Electric Vehicle customer care department. They can create a case ticket for you and make sure someone both at Ford corporate and the regional level is following up on your situation. And frankly, the guys at corporate have gotten the most traction for me so far. They are my last resort, but they know which buttons to press internally when it's needed.

Update from Ford Regional- the dealership is still troubleshooting my active noise cancellation system and investigating if the catalytic converter is involved in this problem. Only time will tell....

Here's hoping because the climate where you are is generally quite a bit warmer than up here in the frozen tundra that you'll escape the pain. I'm fairly certain I would have no issues if I lived in a warmer clime, but you're right, it's irritating to be sold a product no one seems to want to stand behind. If the car can't function properly in cold weather, I'm sure the Attorney General in our state (and probably some branch of the Federal Government) would have something to say about making it for sale to consumers. They might even issue a recall to force the hand of the powers that be at Ford to do something about it. We'll see I guess. I'm supposed to receive a phone call from the regional guy today according to a phone message left with me last week by some guy at corporate Ford/Lincoln. So far, my phone hasn't rung at all. And I haven't heard from my dealership since I was there Friday morning to test drive the car for them again. 'Bout time they start paying me to do their work for them, don't you think? Some of that $113/hr they get paid by Ford could maybe come to me for the time spent test driving my car for their shop techs - wishful thinking. :lol2:

How does one know who the mod is to send a PM? I reported content and received no response.

In case you didn't see that both myself and Jim had that TSB done on our cars with zero results, that TSB is worthless other than 2 days in the shop to perform it and plenty of time billed to Ford for warranty labor. When the noise comes back, let us know. Hopefully by then my dealership will have solve the riddle and you'll be able to get yours fixed without having to strongarm your dealership.

That TSB has already been proving bunk. Both myself and Jim had it done to try to resolve the issues with our cars and it did not improve or change the issue. And I had to miss 2 days of work while my dealership did it and then they didn't even test it to see if it did anything and gave it back to me unchanged. Don't bother with this TSB everybody, it's not worth your time (just like it's not my roof rack causing the noise either - though the Hotline in Detroit was sure it was and it has been proven not to be via actual testing of that theory.)

I would think three times before buying it. I bought mine brand new and it's taken over a year to get anywhere near close to determining why this is happening and I still don't have a confirmation of what is causing it, if it can be fixed or if it will end up in some kind of catastrophic equipment failure down the road. Unless they are practically giving the car away (which I doubt) I'd move on. I love mine, and i really hope it can be fixed, but I never would have bought it if it did this when I test drove it. It the problem is what the dealership is currently looking into, they might have to tear down the entire inside of my car to replace or rewire the active noise cancelling system. With the fuse pulled and that system off, there was less road noise than at any time since I bought it. Which leads me to believe that system has been amplifying road noise instead of cancelling it as intended. The ICE even seemed quieter. It's very disappointing to have invested as much money as I have in this car and to really love it only to find out one of the more unique selling features has been malfunctioning since day 1 and it took me playing hardball with Ford corporate and the dealership to get them to really look into it. I'd pass on the 2013 and test drive the 2014 to see if it exhibits any abnormal stuff. (FYI, from what I've gleaned, the 2014s encorporate a lot of the fixes the 2013s needed to have done to them to function well - they are like the 2013, but with a lot of the patches already installed). I kinda wish Ford would swap my 2013 with a 2014.

Dealership pulled the fuse. The exaggerated noise went away, but during test drive, we could hear the original noise that is being distorted and amplified by the active noise cancelling system. And as you mentioned, the radio basically doesn't work now (just the one speaker and it sounded like crud). The noise we did hear sounded much like a mostly regular exhaust noise, only a bit louder than I expected it to be, but it at least allowed identification of where the issue was originating. No idea how long it might take them to figure out how to fix the issue of amplification - I kinda miss my car - this loaner is not all that great and I have totally been missing my remote start on these -10 or colder mornings. :cry:

Thanks for the cross post. My car actually is the Energi. However, the problem I am having is not related to the fuel pump as it is not consistent across RPMs, it happens at a specific range of RPMs and only under ambient cold temps below 15-20 degrees and I am able to accelerate past the threshold (give it more gas) and get past it (however this isn't a suitable fix either because that has me flooring it all the time :gaah: ). I had found some info and a TSB about fuel pump, but everything I read did not line up with the symptoms of my car. And from the other forums I had read about the fuel pump noises, what I am experiencing is much louder and more of a WAHHHHHHHHHHH than the softer fuel pump woo. There is an MP3 posted in this thread that is exactly what I hear in my car (it's not my mp3, but it's the same thing I hear). And it seems to eminate from underneath the front seats and up into the front doors, not so much back behind the back seat which is where the fuel pump is. Mine is actually louder in the front seats from what I've experienced.