pianewman

I've solved my 2013 CMax SEL APIM/battery drain problem: traded it for a 2018 Toyota Prius Two. Loved the CMax, but at 100k miles, with a sloppy suspension (prob needed struts/stabilizer bar ends) and a totally unpredictable, random battery drain, and a worthless, unwarranted APIM replacement pending ($1k), we just couldn't justify keeping the car. I no longer have any interest in fussing over any of my 4 cars!!!! For sure, the CMax MUCH is more well appointed than the Prius Two, but the Gen 4 Prius has finally solved the "weird" suspension/drivetrain issues of previous generations. Throttle input is very linear, Elec/ICE transitions exceptionally smooth, ICE not nearly as rough as before. It'll never be a real "driver's car." That's very clear. Oh...and the the 58-62mpg my son is getting, w/o serious hypermiling, makes us smile. Keeping our 2017 Fusion Energi Titanium for the time being, mostly because trade-in value is totally unacceptable ($12k, while the same dealer sells them for $18.5k!!!!). We really love the Fusion, as well, and hope we won't be chasing electrical issues. Needed a replacement 12V battery at 30k miles (seriously???), hoping the replacement lasts longer. Thanks for all the advice here. I learned a ton, but sadly, won't be putting it to use on the 2013 CMax!

The comic relief of the incident had us all shrieking with laughter, especially since I have a family history of, "...never doing anything wrong..." I'm the Mary Poppins of the family, "practically perfect in every way." Another FYI for y'all. Drove the Cmax, 80miles, several stop/starts. APIM functioning. Plugged it into BatteryTender, fully charged after 7 hours. Russian roulette, for sure, awaiting the APIM failure/subsequent battery drain. Also FYI, trade-in offers of 4k to 5k, on used $17-18k cars.

Uhh...well...I don't know how to say this, but, I screwed up. My previous post claiming my CMax battery was dead again was totally incorrect. I apologize for my error. When my wife went to drive the CMax, she said she couldn't get into the car. She took our Leaf instead, handing me the key. In the confusion, when I went to check on the CMax, I used the key she handed me, and...well...it...was...her...FUSION KEY!!!!!! Obviously, it wouldn't work, nor would the metal key inside the fob. I didn't discover my error until later in the day, after posting here, and calling my dealership to complain. I phoned the dealership as soon as I could, to apologize. So, the CMax is functioning just fine, which is pleasing me. Sorry for the confusion. I feel like an idiot.

Good morning, y'all. I hope you're having a great day! My CMax is totally dead again this morning. AND...GRRRR...the mechanical key the dealership cut for me, and sold to me, doesn't work in the door. So...my fancy lithium jump charger is worthless. Have...a...nice...day...!!! :)

Just checked my receipts. I guess we WERE getting the EFB 12/28/18...BXT67R, at 82k miles 9/27/19...BXT 67R, at 97.5 k miles Battery dead, 11/13/19, at 100k miles

You clearly aren't a 21-year-old young man...HAHA!. I've tried my best to instill my "hand-on" attitude about household plumbing, landscaping, car maintenance, household electrical, etc. etc. All we've managed to do is instill a very strong musical work ethic, and he has excelled, in the jazz program at UNT, graduating in 3 years, now a grad asst, with his own lab band. SOOO...we're cutting him some slack. Wish he could do it all, but... ...appreciate your advice. I totally agree with you, but I've got to pick my battles!

Thanks again, Plus 3. Wow, your curiosity and diligence are astounding. Thank you. Sadly, regardless of your diligence and excellent advice, we're still dealing with a parasitic drain issue, since the dealer tech (also very diligent) couldn't find the parasitic drain. Totally bizarre that the APIM came back to life as the Service Adviser was bringing the car out front for me. Bottom line: my son just can't handle the very real potential of random battery failure. I don't blame him. We love the car: fit and finish, SEL level trim, handling, minimal road noise. We don't want to lose it, but we're moving in that direction. FYI, put the BatteryTenderPlus on the battery last night. It took 2+ hours to come up to 80%, and overnight to reach 100%/float. If, in fact, it is an EFB, all of that is moot, though.

Tech clocked 5 hours (which the dealership did NOT charge me for!) , trying all the combinations of various module on/off that Ford directed, and the APIM did NOT come back to life...until I was on my way to pick up the car!!!! HAHAHA! Still baffled by all this, even with Plus 3 Golfer's gracious detailed explanation. (Truth be known, I really have no idea what the SOC is on an ICE 12V battery, but thinking the alternator keeps it hovering in the 60-80% range, maybe nearer to 90%, never 100%. All I know is, with a healthy ICE 12V battery, an overnight BatteryTenderPlus charge will bring it to 100%) Now the discussion is: given the importance of my son's budding career in jazz (haha...possibly forever on the verge of serious unemployment!), we need to decide if the possible inconvenience of battery failure is worth the stress. His parents (my wife and I) are professional classical musicians (violin and piano), and fully understand that we can NEVER phone in sick, nor suffer the inconvenience of late arrival, when there are several hundred people in the audience awaiting our arrival!!!! It just may be that the way our 2013 CMax is now being driven is a pattern that depletes that 12V battery. Sounds weird, though!

Jeez...the saga continues... Spoke with the dealer manager, voicing my concern about the APIM replacement having NO WARRANTY! He seemed baffled, as well, and promised to look into it. We'll see. APIM was NOT replaced. I asked the dealership trade-in mgr to appraise the car, for them to buy it from me. HAHA! "Your car's in great shape, paint, interior, tires, and service dept says there are no problems with the car. We'll give you $3000 for it (100k miles on the odo) HAHAHAHA! Here's the kicker. I went to pick up the car, They had deliberately left one door open, overnight, to provoke battery drain, and STILL NO significant battery drain. WHEN I GOT IN THE CAR, ALL 4 WINDOWS ON THE INFO SCREEN WERE FUNCTIONING, with radio, phone, and Nav fully functioning!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF??? They said the APIM had failed completely, and now, it has come back to life... The car IS in great shape (prob. could use new struts...it's sloppier than I would like!), so now I'm not sure how to proceed. Curious: I drove the car around 15 miles since I picked it up. Any predictions on what I'll find IF I decide to plug it into the BatteryTenderPlus??? They said it was at 100% when I picked it up.

Whew! Thanks for yet another very comprehensive overview of the charging parameters of the 2013 CMax. I really appreciate the tutorial. The dealership could find no parasitic drain. They also doubt the failing/failed APIM had anything to do with the dead battery. Also, service adviser insisted again that there is NO WARRANTY on a replaced APIM. UNACCEPTABLE! He actually agrees. I'll be speaking with the mgr of the dealership tomorrow. I doubt I'll get any satisfaction. Bottom line: as I stated before, my 21-year-old son, while extremely attentive to (jazz trumpet) musical details, just isn't OCD enough to take on the continued anxiety of driving his beloved CMax. He's OCD, 24/7 with his grad school classes, directing a jazz lab band at UNT, playing gigs on the weekend...he just wants to get in the car and expect it to start. I agree with him. Not sure what direction we're going from here, but the CMax will be sold/traded. UGH...car shopping...

Dealer CANNOT find the parasitic drain on the CMax. First night, plugged into equipment at the dealer, 12V was fully drained overnight. 2nd night, after performing a myriad of diagnostic tests, per Ford instructions, plugged into the SAME equipment, 12V showed no issues. The APIM has failed, showing no sign of resurrection. Now the debate: to replace ($600part, $400 labor) with a new APIM, still with Sync 2, BUT...BUT...neither Ford NOR the dealership will provide any warranty whatsoever on the replaced part!!!! As my service adviser said to me (he's been very honest!), "Now you know why Ford has so many lawsuits pending. We replace at least 2 APIM's (on a variety of cars) a day, we have them lined up..." I will go in and speak with the dealership mgmt about this. SA says I'm wasting my time, but at least he/she will hear my voice. 2017 Fusion Energi: To affirm Plus3golfer's assertion regarding HVB charging: YES, the 12V battery does indeed get recharged when the HVB is plugged in. I proved this yesterday. Energi had been driven over 200 miles, w/o being plugged in. After a 40mile highway run, I plugged in the BatteryTenderPlus, and it showed 12V charge BELOW 80%. After 2 hours on the BTPlus, STILL not showing 80%. I unplugged the BatteryTender, plugged in the HVB, and after charging (Level 2 charger, around 2 hours?), the 12V battery was fully charged. We're very close to dumping the CMax. My son's fledgling career as a jazz trumpet in DFW just won't tolerate a car that is prone to 12V failure, even if there's a jump charger in the car. He doesn't have time to fool around (except when he's improvising on the trumpet...haha!)

All good advice here. We have to decide if the value of the cash outlay (hardly an "investment"!) is worth it to us, and how long we plan to keep the car.

Dealer phoned later in the day, told me the equipment they used to check for parasitic drain killed the battery overnight. I asked about the possibility of the failing APIM fully draining the battery, and tech says he's never seen/heard of that before. We're in west Ft. Worth, the dealership sells a zillion trucks, and services very, very few hybrids, so... I'll be speaking with them again tomorrow. Hope to resolve this. So far, since I'm out of the 5 years extended warranty on the APIM, dealership won't help with replacement cost. My service adviser, who is totally straight with me, says he and his fellow advisers catch a lot of flack from customers about failed APIM.

sasadler: I've got the same situation. I've had 3 replacement batteries, and the 3rd one (4th, counting the original) is failing. APIM failure, as well, with the dealer quoting me $1k+. I haven't checked to see if my SEL is covered by any extended warranty from Ford. Dealer says the APIM is sold to them by a "vendor", that visits the dealership periodically, isn't a Ford employee, and in fact, the replacement APIM doesn't come with a warranty. ?????

2013 CMax Hybrid, 100k miles. 4th OEM battery installed at 97k, now failing. Radio/nav has failed several times in our 3 years of ownership, always resetting itself after pulling a fuse, or...after each battery disconnect/replacment (3 replacement batteries!!!!) Entire entertainment window is now black. Dealer just phoned, says it's the APIM module, $1k+ to replace, WITH NO WARRANTY after replacement. ??????? YES, he says, they fail all the time. YES, he says, Ford hasn't figured it out, and the entertainment module/software is sold to them, "by a vendor that visits" the dealership. He claims the vendor isn't even a Ford employee. ????

Plus 3 Golfer: Thanks for the further clarification re: BatteryTenderPlus charging protocol. I had come to the same conclusion, that there's a parasitic drain somewhere that's negating the charging capabilities of the BTP. My son informs me that the auto-close hatch has been balky, and the feature that snugs the latch fully is no longer working 100%. He has to manually assist/push on the hatch after it contacts the latch, in order to fully close it. Otherwise, it will remain slightly open. I will alert the dealership to this, as there just might be something wonky in the latch closing feature that's causing the drain. I have always made certain that the hatch is fully closed when I have the car, and of course, when the BatteryTenderPlus is charging. Dealer tells me that there's a Ford rep on site this afternoon, and they'll seek his input.

BatteryTenderPlus, 1.25a. I own 2 of them. When I've used them previously, on all my cars, the LEDs initially show a constant "red", meaning it is charging at 1.25a. When it reaches 80% charge, the green light will start flashing, and I assume charging rate is reduced, until the battery reaches a "full" charge, red light off, green light on steady. I've been doing this on my cars for 10-12 years, and the BatteryTenderPlus behavior has been consistent, on all the previous batteries in the CMax and our Fusion Energi. Ditto for 2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid (AGM battery) and 2015 Leaf (AGM battery).

Cross-posted to speed up the response. The 4th battery is 7 weeks old, so your response re: environment/battery life isn't on point. Now, after 36hours of 1.25a charging, isn't up to 80% charged. Dealership is sounding helpful. Taking it in to them this afternoon. Ugh...22f expected tomorrow AM. Techs won't be happy about working on ANYTHING!

Double post, sorry about that, but I'd like a response ASAP. 2013 Cmax, 100k miles. 3rd OEM 12V battery replacement in Sept...6 weeks ago...(battery #4) College student car, max length drive time 1 hour, probably twice a week, otherwise very few short trips. Entertainment system fail (again). Decided to put the battery on a BatteryTenderPlus, 1.25amp. 18 hours of charging, battery STILL not charged to 80%. We're losing faith in this car, which has otherwise been flawless. We're keeping a lithium battery charger in the car, haven't needed to use it yet. What can my son do differently to keep this battery charged???

Double post, sorry about that, but I'd like a response ASAP. 2013 Cmax, 100k miles. 3rd OEM 12V battery replacement in Sept...6 weeks ago...(battery #4) College student car, max length drive time 1 hour, probably twice a week, otherwise very few short trips. Entertainment system fail (again). Decided to put the battery on a BatteryTenderPlus, 1.25amp. 18 hours of charging, battery STILL not charged to 80%. We're losing faith in this car, which has otherwise been flawless. We're keeping a lithium battery charger in the car, haven't needed to use it yet. What can my son do differently to keep this battery charged???

fbov: Excellent post. It's nice to see a real analysis of tire/traction dynamics. There have been so many developments in tire design, QC, suspension design, traction control, ABS, etc, that the principles taught in the 60s and 70s, when I learned to drive, require similar updating. I get that. I also appreciate and respect the experiences of several here that have posted about positive results while driving on maximum sidewall PSI. To further flog this horse, though, I'd like to highlight and add to 3 of your statements: "We'll assume the friction coefficient is constant (this is where road surface matters). We'll also assume a level surface, no hills There are 2 assumptions in this that are exactly the variables that I'm addressing: road surface, slope, hills. We all have to take into consideration these variables. Someone driving on the ribbon-smooth Autobahn has very different traction dynamics than on poorly designed and maintained US road surfaces (as always, "YMMV" applies here!) In a straight line, there's a small effect; braking and acceleration aren't very sensitive. Lateral acceleration is another story. Again, taking into account the infinite variables of road surface, etc, I'd offer that the risk of loss of traction is greater at higher inflation. ... the slope of this line changes with tire design and rubber compound. Yet another variable. We all know from experience the broad range of traction differences of different tires. Again, I respect the experiences of others here, and that they've not experienced traction loss attributable to PSI, because of traction control, ABS, etc. I'm not confident, though, that max sidewall PSI is advisable across all brands of tires. FYI, with my 2015 Nissan Leaf, I have experienced substantial wheel hop/loss of traction AND BRAKING (ABS gets confused) when braking aggressively on an irregular road surface. The first time this occurred was terrifying, and I have since learned to be aware of this tendency. It is because of this that I've become more interested in optimum PSI, to minimize the wheel hop while braking. I'm confident that, with this vehicle, and with these tires (Bridgestone Ecopia Plus) that PSI LESS than max works best, although I know I could maximize MPG and treadwear life by raising the PSI. ...and yes, I know...this thread is about Ford Hybrids, and I shouldn't assume the experiences posted here are universal across all vehicles and tire brands. Thanks again for an enlightening thread. I've learned a lot.

Not worrying about bursting pressure, worried about traction loss "at the limit". Another thought: Track experience, with newer (?) smoother (?) pavement isn't the same as real world pavement. On a less-than-smooth road surface, are higher PSI tires more prone to wheel hop, at the limit, than a more moderately inflated tire? ...of course...YMMV...

Great points, all! I am losing my fear of approaching sidewall max PSI. I'll have my lawyer contact you when I lose traction and wrap my car around a tree! HAHA! "Tramline" is what the FE tech called it, when the front end wants to wander with or climb any trough on the (usually) asphalt surface, usually near a traffic light. Also at cruising speed, the car would wander, even when the alignment was dialed in correctly.