MikeB

Yea, I'm confused by the trio of nearly identical forums as well. We've got 2 that appear to be for the hybrid, and one for the Energi (which is mostly just the hybrid with a larger battery). One subtle point is that cmaxhybridowners has a section for the Hybrid and another for the Energi, so it's set up to be the parent forum if the others weren't around. I'd really like to see these combined into a single forum.

Apparently, I had a really monster tail wind yesterday. I added 2 people and some luggage, and dropped to about 36mpg today. I very clearly saw EV mode at 70 today, even on flat terrain. It looks like steady interstate driving slowly charges the battery, and then as the charge gets high enough the threshold for EV mode goes way up, EV kicks in eventually and you burn off that same charge. I think it's the Empower screen that shows the threshold for EV to ICE, and that threshold was moving up and down for much of the drive. Was very interesting to watch. (again, my highway driving was all EV Later mode, so it's the basic hybrid operating mode I was observing)

I just took my Energi on a 200 mile highway drive, 70 was my target speed (though I did go both above and below for some time). Trip mpg ended up at 45, but that included the 20 miles on battery, so sustained mpg was closer to 42. Temps were in the 30s to 40s, and I think I had a big tailwind most of the way. I also was running the tires at about 42psi, rather than the sticker value of 38. Overall, I'm pleased, and think low 40s is going to be typical for my 70mph runs. I did see the ICE cut off and the electric drive take over at speeds up to 75 or so, but usually on a down grade (in EV Later mode, so it was behaving like the Hybrid at the time).

For a hybrid that travels many miles with the engine off, you might not want your oil change interval measured by simple miles. It's even worse on the Energi, since it'll have so many more miles without the engine running. A sensor that actually measures oil quality is the best solution, but a cheaper solution (used by aircraft and such) is to simply count hours of engine running time. I suspect that's what our cars are doing, and the mileage numbers are just an estimate of how far we'll drive before hitting the requisite number of hours.

The Prius has a soft gas tank, I've seen it described as a rubber bladder. I think the biggest reason for using it is safety, there's less explosive gasoline vapor floating around, and it probably doesn't crack open after a crash like a rigid tank can. The fancy capless filler valve and the pressurization may also have an emissions purpose, keeping gasoline vapor from escaping is a really good thing to do, and I think California has requirements around that. I'm sure Ford wanted to make sure the Energi could use the California HOV lanes, which it can, but that means meeting a higher standard than the average car.

I think the reverse is true: topping off generates less accuracy. If you insert the gas nozzle the same amount each time, and rely on the automatic shutoff, you have a pretty reliable mark for 'full', which is when the gas reaches about 6" (?) below the top of the inlet. If you top off, then you are somewhere between that 6" mark and the actual top, but you don't know how far between them you actually are. Of course, you have to fill slowly enough that you don't trigger the shutoff too early due to foaming or turbulence effects, but that's going to be the same in either case. But there's possible more interesting things happening here: at least on my Energi, I think the fuel system is pressurized when driving. And it's also possible that the fuel tank isn't rigid, but a flexible bladder within a shell. Both of these could make a difference in our fuel measurements, either as it's consumed or as it's added.

Actually, that's a very bad sign. The problem with a class action suit is that the only people to make money are the lawyers. Unless we explicitly opt-out, then at best Ford will settle with the suing lawyers for what sounds like a big chunk of money, but individual C-Max buyers will get something worth about a single tank of gas. Of course, I think the core problem is the EPA tests themselves, not Ford's claims about the test results, so Ford will probably fight this and win easily.

Yes, the fogs illuminate with just parking lights on, and they turn off when the high beam is on. Personally, like you, I'd like the option to keep the fogs on with the high beam, but that's because I'm driving in deer country at night. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same cover. The factory fogs have a plastic shroud, maybe 8" long, that covers just the light and the opening behind it. I need to get that off to have access to the removal screws. (There's a small diagram in the Owners Manual, check out the bulb replacement section).

I installed OEM fogs on my previous VW Jetta, they had a simple adjustment screw. I figured that would be a pretty standard design. But I gotta pull off the plastic shroud to even look at the new ones, and oddly that's where I'm stalled.

Got my Energi yesterday, very nice so far. Took it for a joyride last night, and noticed that the fog lights are aimed way too low. They nicely illuminate the pavement 10' in front of me, where I don't really need it. But the owner's manual doesn't say anything about adjusting their aim, just the aim of the headlights. The owner's manual does mention replacing the bulb for the fog lights, and they start with 'remove the cover'. I figure if I can get the cover off, I might see a screw or something to adjust the aim of the lights. But I don't see any obvious way to remove the cover, other than just pulling. So, before I start breaking things, anyone else give this a try yet?

We've got lots of VW TDI drivers here, but that should probably be expected. I usually set the cruise on my Jetta Sportwagen right at 70, it usually got about 42mpg at that speed, above the 40 EPA number. I expect my C-Max will be below that, but not using diesel may balance it out. Of course, my big gain will be driving in town entirely in EV mode, which is the reason I'm changing cars. I think the idea of showing an mpg curve for different highways speeds would be great. It would also encourage automakers to focus more attention on aerodynamics, where I think there's room for big improvements coming out of small changes. There's a few modders out there who have seen huge gains by adding a boat tail to the rear of their vehicle, I bet we could see significant improvement in the automakers just put more taper into the tailgate shape.

No, Eco cruise is a setting that applies to cruise control, it makes the system slightly less aggressive at holding speeds. So when you start going uphill, the cruise control is more likely to let your speed drop a bit, rather than instantly applying more gas to keep the speed where you set it.

Something seems wrong about that analysis: the Energi can go up to 85mph on its electric motor, but it only rated 41mpg once it drains the battery enough that it enters normal hybrid mode. I'll know for sure in another week or so, but I bet the Energi won't be much better than the Hybrid in real-world highway driving, despite the higher EV speed threshold.

ptjones, a trick I learned from the VW TDI world is to insert foam pipe insulation between the slats of the grill. It survives wet winter weather well, and a single 6' length of insulation costs just a couple bucks from your local hardware store. Cut it to length with a knife, and then slice it to fit over the vertical supports within the grill. Easily removable once warmer weather comes along.

I think the bottom grill has active shutters, but the middle and top don't. Over in the VW TDI world, I learned to put foam pipe insulation between the slats of the grill in the winter, cut a few pieces to length and just squeeze them in place. As long as they are dark, they tend to disappear at any distance, and the foam survives just fine with wet winter weather. One 6' length cost a couple bucks at the local hardware store, so it's a very cheap solution.

Ok, my fellow scooter guys, what type of scooters do you have? I've got a Honda Silverwing 600, and a Current Motor Company electric scooter.

The best possible tool for better mpg is actually a digitial display on the dash showing current average mpg. You don't need a hybrid for that, my VW Jetta came with such a display, and it definitely helped me change some of my driving habits. Laurel, just make sure the left instrument cluster is showing the mpg display before you let your husband drive, and make comments now and then like 'ooh, you're now at exactly half my average...', or 'wow, you've broken the 30 mpg barrier!'. :)

valk, the vents are at the level of the top of the seats, there are ducts along the side of the cargo area. You'd have to be pretty fully packed for anything to cover them.

You guys are watching the wrong TV channels, I'm seeing plenty of ads for the C-Max. I can't recall exactly which shows I saw them around, but I'm more likely to be watching something like the Discovery channel, or perhaps National Geographic, which is probably where the advertising execs think most C-Max customers are going to be.

ptjones, my Energi was built last week, should be on a train headed south this week. I think listing the Energi as a different engine is the simplest choice, it's still an L4 but it needs to be listed as plug-in rather than hybrid. Going even further, for plug-in vehicles, Fuelly really should allow you to enter a fill-up with either kWh of electricity or gallons of fuel, that would allow far more interesting calculations.

Fuelly needs to rethink that position. The Energi is not an option, it's an entirely different drivetrain from the MPG perpsective. Driven mostly on short trips, Energi drivers could legitimately post MPG numbers in the hundreds or potentially even thousands. For any type of analysis of the Hybrid average, you'd need to keep those numbers separate.

I'll second that: thanks for the info. Some background, for those who are interested: Battery behavior generally depends heavily on what's known as the C rate, or (dis)charge rate. If you draw power from the battery at a rate that will discharge it in 1 hour, that's 1C. If you draw power twice as fast, you'll empty the battery in half an hour, so that's 2C. A 3C rate discharges fully in 20 min, etc. EV designers always look at the C rate when engineering a system, most lithium batteries should never exceed a C rate of 3 (though some chemistries are good up to 20). This is also why fast charging is an issue, if you want to fully charge in 20 minutes, you're at a C rate of 3, which might be near your upper limit. When you look at translating the C rate into actual watts, it's a direct function of size. So pulling 1C from a 1.4kWh battery gives you 1.4kW, but you can get 7.6kW from a 7.6kWh battery. (Yea, metric units for electricity are really that simple). So if the 62mph electric speed rate was limited because they didn't want to exceed a certain C rate on the battery, the Energi would clearly have a higher limit. Of course, ever component in an electric drivetrain has it's own limits, and they are all generally chosen with a similar power level, but you always end up with one item being the weakest link. As I think about the numbers, something else comes to mind: the peak C rate in the Hybrid looks pretty high to me, but it's always used in short bursts. The C rate in the Energi is much lower since the battery is larger, but it also has to sustain that C rate for a much longer period of time.

At least for my coming Energi, the MyFordMobile smartphone app will show the vehicle location, as will the matching myfordmobile.com website. However, Energi vehicles aren't able to complete the registration process yet, the system isn't quite ready for us. I don't know if the Hybrid will be able to use the app/website down the road, since most of the functions are centered on charging the battery, but the location service would still make sense. But the potential is there, it's just a matter of Ford providing access.

Ok, so grade assist will turn on the ICE for engine braking. How about just using 'L' on the transmission selector. Does that just increase regen, or will it trigger the ICE as well? And how does 'L' compare to grade assist, more or less regen?

I've got a huge panoramic sunroof in my current Jetta Sportwagen, but I almost never open the glass. It's nice to quickly vent the heat out on a hot day, but I close it as soon as I'm moving at any speed. I went ahead and asked for the sunroof on my pending Energi, mostly so I and my passengers can enjoy more light and a better view of the sky.