BIG ROCCO

LOL below 65 or 70? We will have to wait until ~Thanksgiving for that here in Phoenix!

Yeah - pretty fair all around - they even reported a realistic 44 MPG for the C-Max

Yeah - me too! That's ~ $4,500 off a ~$29,000 sticker. Even if that includes $750 public + $750 private/brochure rebates, that's still ~$3K off sticker...that's way under invoice, so I'm not sure how they're doing that, unless maybe there are some special dealer incentives in your area. FYI, here in Phoenix, about 6 weeks ago, besides rebates, we got about $2K of sticker, and we thought that was pretty good. As far as the SE vs SEL, it just depends on your budget and your expectations. I have traditionally liked getting the upgraded and more heavily optioned models of cars, including several Cadillacs. On one occasion, I bought a 2005 Lincoln LS - it was a V6 (not V8) model, which I didn't regret, but it had the most basic interior and equipment. It was a Lincoln, so it did have leather and cruise and tilt and power seats (both) and fog lights and climate control...but I did miss having a better stereo, rain sensing wipers, auto dimming mirrors, trip computer, memory seats with better leather, nicer interior. The car was always fine, never had ANY problems with it, but it felt like just a really nice Ford or Mercury and not a Lincoln, so I never really relished owning and driving it. We wanted leather - so SEL. We wanted the better stereo and back up camera (nav and power liftgate were welcome, but not must haves), so 302A. We would have like a sunroof that opened, but a glass roof that doesn't open here in the Valley of the Sun/Phoenix just didn't appeal to us. We keep our cars for 10+ years, so all the toys only cost us a few hundred dollars a year. But again, it's different strokes for different folks - that's why automakers offer different versions and options (and color)

Mmmm...interesting. Below a certain air temperature, the ICE turns on regardless of speed or battery level or engine load? We got our CM early May, so here in Phoenix, I guess we have not seen any temperatures cold enough to turn the ICE on. We live at the top of a hill (there are lots of hills, and 1 big fountain, in our town: Fountain Hills, AZ) I have left our house (with no recent driving) and gone ~2 miles down the hill to a supermarket and then 2 miles back up the hill, nearly 100% in EV mode. Could it be we have selected some setting that allows that?

Yeah - AC use has taken its toll, but we're still seeing mid-40s, and we're only at 600+ miles. We, too, try to drive conservatively, but nothing extreme. What I can't figure out are the people reporting mid to upper 30s - what can possibly explain that? Maybe just high speed highway use with AC?

What is the build date on your car - 11/24/12? 1/24/13? Your profile says 11.24.13

Good...but in a torrential downpour, I would prefer "You Should Be Dancing"

Yeah - I will have to try to duplicate the conditions (and MPG) sometime

The wife and I took a 20 mile each way trip to Costco on Friday. Drove around 67 MPH there - 105 degrees out, so of course, the AC was on. I don't remember the trip mileage on the way there - it was nothing special - maybe around 42 MPG. While she was inside for here eye exam, I took off to Home Depot to pick up some landscape irrigation drip emitters. On the way there and back, it was city streets, maybe around 3 miles each way. I was in EV mode most of the time, and didn't bother with AC for such a short trip, so I think the trip mileage was something like 88 MPG. On the way home, I tried this ICE High thing - 67 MPH Eco Cruise, high-ish battery, AC on - the MPG meter showed low 40s, which is normal...but then all of a sudden, I notice the MPG meter was pinned - that's right, all the way to the max. The battery level was 1 notch from full, and the up/down battery arrows kept flip flopping, sometimes showing charging/increase and sometimes discharge, as we travelled up and down gentle grades, but the MPG meter never changed - it was full white for probably 3-4 miles. I really thought maybe the display was broken or "stuck", but it returned to normal when I took our exit. Was I seeing things?

A few comments in response to various prior posts - not in any particular order: 1. We hated the look and feel of the cloth seats. I like the look and feel of leather, but I can understand if some prefer cloth...just not the cloth they use in the C-Max SE. 2. I initially did not like the power liftgate, because I felt it was slow and added unnecessary complexity, but we ended up looking at a car that had it, and the wife liked it and everything else about the car...and it's her car...so we have it and she loves it. I have to admit I have come to like it, too - it does add a certain feeling of luxury and class to what is basically a utilitarian car. She also loves the backup camera that came in the same package; she had said she didnt' care about the backup camera and that she would never feel comfortable trusting and using it, but now she wouldn't be without it. 3. The comments about the effects of the weather on MPG were interesting. I haven't lived in a cold climate for more than 12 years...here in Phoenix, we never have very cold weather - upper 30s on the way to work in the morning in the Winter is a cold spell. Still, it is amazing that, even here, MPG does noticeably drop in the Winter. We just got our C-Max last month, so I don't know how it will react, but 5-10% lower Winter MPG than Spring and Fall has been the norm on our other/previous cars. Summer mileage does suffer a little due to AC use, but not as much as Winter. 4. The "touchy" brakes took about 10 seconds on the test drive to get used to. Now, I don't even notice them, even when switching from my Buick - they just feel normal to me now. Frankly, I like the brakes a little sensitive. 4. The voice control on our car works well, but I still prefer buttons. 5. I know built in Nav is expensive - part of the $1,195 301A package on the SEL. That package includes NAV and the upgraded radio. So, if you figure on 1/2 the cost of the package is for the upgraded radio and 1/2 the cost is for NAV, it's still ~$600. Still a lot, but it is kind of nice to have it all integrated, with nothing in the way or needed to be plugged in or moved when parked (for security reasons).

Fair? Not for the dealer - almost $5,000 below sticker looks very low to me, which is good for you

I read a story once that the weights and measures checks are made in the Boston area were at 5 and 10 gallon amounts, and the fraudulent stations made sure the pumps were accurate at those exact levels, but read high at any other levels. Edit: I just went back a few posts and followed salsaguy's links - I see they mention and show the 5 gallon containers used. The interesting thing about the story I had read was that the pumps WERE accurate at 5 gallons - just not accurate at other amounts

I think engaging hill descent mode also increases the regen rate similar to lightly applying the brakes - right?

Thanks for the feedback, but nope - I was just standing too close. The kick/s would always unlatch the door, it would start to go up/open, and then stop and close again. If the door was already open, a kick would get it to start closing and then it would stop. I have done it both ways since then and it always works OK if I take a backward step, and it always messes up if I don't.

Is there a configuration where you have the power liftgate, but not the hands free feature? urs is an SEL with 302A, and has both, but I am just curious if maybe you could have one and not the other. The OP profile shows he has an SEL also...

Have not had any updates installed...for anything - not yet, at least.

We were having problems - the liftgate would unlatch, then close again. Went to the dealer, showed them the trouble, and they showed me what were were doing wrong...we were too close and the liftgate was sensing us as an obstruction! This seems to be the correct procedure: Get close enough to the rear bumper to kick just your toes under the the bumper, directly under the license plate, then, get the heck out of the way and take a ful step back. That seems to work every time.

Just noticed you're in Vermont - what are you even complaining about? You don't need AC there- just open the window! JK - LOL

Yes - this is perfect - Hill Descent Mode is similar to light application of the brakes - both increase the slowing effect on the car when coasting by increasing the generator drag/battery charge rate. L engages the ICE and the equivalent of a low gear in a non hybrid car, also slowing the car, but by wasting and not by storing the energy. That's what I thought.

Yeah - headed North again tomorrow AM. I've been manually shifting into 4th gear on the LaCrosse going down the long grades - leave it in D, but usually end up in 4th (selected by the PCM) going up the long/steep hills, too. We usually go Beeline/87N and then 260E, but sometimes go 87S to Gilbert Rd S to 202E to 60E all the way to Show Low/Pinetop/Lakeside - that way is so beautiful! The LaCrosse is good, but feels a little underpowered on the longest/steepest grades, especially once the battery is depleted. I been getting about 37 MPG round trip with no AC use. It will be interesting to see what the driving is like and the MPG in the C-Max, in a couple months.

Here in Phoenix, we have really mild Winters and really hot Summers. In all of our previous cars, I have noticed the best MPG in the Spring and Fall - the engine warms up really quickly, doesn't cool off much when parked, and there is no AC needed. Summertime AC use takes it's toll, but the worst mileage is in the Winter - about 10% less than Spring/Fall. Can someone please explain EV+ and how to turn it on/off? Thank you

LOL - that's funny - we live in Fountain Hills and have a weekend place in Pinetop-Lakeside, so we will be taking those 2 routes eventually as well! For now, I am using my 2012 LaCrosse, until the C-Max is fully broken in. Those long ups and down and sharp turns have got to be tough on the drivetrain and brakes, so I would rather take it easy on the new car until everything settles in. The LaCrosse is a mild hybrid, and yes, the battery is usually filled up before the bottom of most hills. The C-Max is my wife's car, but I did drive it this morning and played around with it - first I tried tried hill descent - it did feel like a light application of brakes...no discernible change in engine sound or feel. Then I tried shifting to L while coasting for the first time - that definitely raised the engine revs a lot.

Oh - thanks for the response, and I didn't say the Prius was a better choice, but I do think it will be a little more reliable, a little more durable, and get a little better fuel mileage. I like the looks of the Prius V, and it seems good on paper, but I never seriously considered it or any other _ap car. I have bought many electronic products from that country, such as Sony TVs, Nakamichi tape decks, Yamaha stereos...back when they were actually made there, and they were so far superior to US made or branded products that I thought there was just no way to justify anything else. I do try to patronize American companies and products whenever possible, and do consider today's US cars to be in the same league as Asian imports...maybe not exactly the same, but close enough...that's why we got the C-Max and never even test drove a Prius. Nowadays, it seems nearly all consumer goods are imported, mostly from China. Cars are one of the few things still made here. Yes, I know a lot of C-Max parts come from Mexico and China and elsewhere, but at least some of the parts are made here and it is assembled here, so that's better than nothing...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

OK - I think you're saying grade assist is basically a more aggressive engagement of the generator mode, compared with regular coast mode, right? That's what I thought, and I like the idea of hill descent mode, if it's charging the battery like crazy, and I don't have to ride the brake pedal, but if the (lightly applied) brake pedal charges the battery more, I would rather do that

If I'm going down a long or steep grade, where the vehicle speed needs to reduced/controlled, what is the most fuel efficient method? In other words, what recaptures the most energy and charges the battery the most - light application of the brakes, hill descent mode, shifting to L, or some combination of the above?