Don O.

Back again. Yesterday (14 Dec. 2013) I received a notice from Ford entitled: "Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12". It says the issue is the 12 volt dead battery. It says to contact my dealer &: "the dealer will check the 12V battery ...& replace it if necessary. Also, your dealer will reprogram the Multifunction Display computer to correct the battery discharge condition". The problem is described to be that an electronic module fails to transition to "sleep" state. Instead, the module stays in "awake" mode and keeps other vehicle modules in "awake" mode. This can significantly increase the current drain on the (12V) battery. (My words): The result is the 12v battery will discharge and may prevent the engine from starting. I plan to call my dealer on 16 Dec. re this. Any comments???

Thx drdiesel1. Makes sense to do as you suggest. Wab? Yep. Have a 3rd 12V outlet on the passenger side of the car in the hatch area. About where the fuel inlet is located.. Hmmm. :dance: Per drdiesel1, need to open the car door or hatch in order to use it for a reading so somethingees will get activated for awhile. :worship:

drdiesel1: Not sure I was very specific on my "check". I opened the driver's side door & popped the hood. Lifted it, & took a direct DC voltage reading between the red positive post and a ground bolt using my probes on my portable radioshack multimeter. OK so far? Should I wait x amount of time before doing this? My analog reading was 'close' to 12.5V after my CMAX se was sitting in my garage for 3 days. Kelpie: What do you understand as the term of the warranty?

ArizonaEnergi Said: "No, the Hybrid model also has the rear 12v always-on outlet, although I don't know if the SE does. It's on the passenger side at the back if you have one. But you can plug a voltmeter into the front outlet with the car on, then turn it off and get out, and after all the lights automatically shut off you'll get a pretty good voltage reading. But the reading from the battery posts under the hood will be better, and you don't have to start/stop the car and wait around." Thx. I shall look around the passenger side. I have just ordered the little digital voltmeter. I would like to be able to get a 12V reading that I can perform without going under the hood ( for cold wintery days!). Your suggestion is a good one & the type of thing I plan to do. I did just do a direct check on the 12V battery terminals using my little (analog) Radioshack multimeter (I use for dry cells) with probes. A bit hard to read on the 15V small scale. I have let my CMAX sit for 3 days without driving. Best I can tell, I'm getting a reading right at 12.5V.***Update ***I see I have a 12V outlet in front of my cupholder between the 2 front seats. Opening the console between the front seats, there is another 12V outlet in there. ( I live alone...). Does the one in the console always stay on while the one in front of it not? I am confused here. I would think they both would be functionally the same (?)

ArizonaEnergi said: "When the car is on the 12v is being charged by the HV battery and what you'll see is the charging voltage. What I do is plug in my voltmeter to the outlet in front, close the door, and let all the various circuits shut down over a few minutes, then I can read the voltage for about 15 minutes with minimal extra drain. Or, plug it into the rear outlet and after all the circuits shut down in a few minutes you will get a reading with nothing extra running - if you can see it."Outlet in front...Outlet in back? Am I right that this is for the Energi model ONLY? Guess I need to need my owner's manual (I have the CMAX se). There is no outlet for me to plug into except the 12V one between the 2 front seats? And that is being charged by the HV Battery...If I want to monitor the 12V battery, I need to take a direct reading off the 12V battery posts by opening the hood and putting my probes on the + & ground connections. Right?

To drdiesel1 or others. What I'd like to understand is if I turn the key on & plug in the 12V digital monitor (like when it is 0F out there...), can I get an early indication that the 12V battery has drained some. If so, how low can it go before no lights/ dead 12V battery are eminent? :worship:

Education on the 12V battery please. Fully charged, should you get a reading of about 12.6V? How much drain can it tolerate before no lights come on & you can not start 'anything' without a jump? I see there is a cheap 12V digital monitor (Innova 3721; $14) you can plug into the 12V outlet and get a digital reading. Would seem like a possible useful device especially if you don't want to open the hood and get a multimeter direct reading. Winter is a'coming... Assume you need to be able to have the CMAX running (at least ignition on) in order to use this. Thoughts on these?

Adair. Nope. Shouldn't admit to this, but the car was a white hatchback...not even a CMAX! Wasn't paying attention... :worship:

ArizonaEnergi? I went to the Amazon link you posted. Here is one review: "I just opened the package and turned on the switch on the cord to verify that the light illuminated... which it did. Since I only needed one Jump Up and bought a 2 pack, I took the 3 screws out of the top of one unit and removed the cover. I was shocked to find 20 LR6AM3 Alkaline, single-use batteries inside. The instructions for this Jump Up say that the unit can be recharged by plugging it into your 12V outlet. I just emailed customersupport@valuequest.biz, which is the email address listed on the product sticker, and it bounced. The website listed on the package is also dead ([...] I've got a bad feeling about this." Doesn't give me a warm feeling... :drop:

Follow-on. OK, jump the dead battery. In most instances, is that all that will be needed? My ignorance here. Now the CMAX is running, will the 12V battery charge enough when you are driving to bring its charge up sufficiently...until the next time it is sitting for a couple of days & goes dead? How long a drive generally will be enough? Bam48: Do you use the SYNC function 'often'? Anecdote. Was running some errands today, had thingees on my mind, stopped at the bank, came out & my CMAX was locked & wouldn't open? Pressed several buttons. No go. Tried the key. Didn't work. Da*! it! Pressed the button to open the hatch door. 2 cars away the hatch opened! Guess a Senior moment.

Very helpful posts! I called Ford customer Service about my situation. Had a very nice, congenial talk with a gal who started a case. (No offer for $400 for my trouble...) She said someone would call me in <3 days about the situation. A couple hours later I got a call from a regional mgr. That did not go as well! He really hadn't done his homework before making the call, didn't know I had the CMAX at home from servicing, felt the problem had been "fixed", & on and on. Not a satisfying call! My problem. The regional mgr. felt I needed to examine the KY Lemon Law to see what it said. I told him I just had my 4th dead battery but hoped it was fixed with the latest TSB (13-7-10). OH...He didn't seem to know the number was the date of issue of the TSB which I believe is the case, so seems like July 10 to me! Right? BAM48's post does not give me a warm feeling about this!!! THX, I think, Bam48! I downloaded the KY Lemon law. I am no lawyer, but believe the condition that has not been resolved in 4 attempts needs to be reported to the manufacturer (FORD) IN WRITING, within the 1st 12 months after delivery or 12,000 miles. Whichever comes 1st. The "Dispute" needs to be resolved within 25,000 miles or 2 years. I got the CMAX on 12/13/12. If I read the 'law' correctly, I need to write FORD before 12/13/13 if I want to (try) to use the KY Lemon Law. I say this in case others are contemplating something similar, I think the claim needs to be made, in writing, within the 1st 12 months (or 12,000 miles)! My last dead battery (4th time) took 5 months to occur after my 3rd dead battery. So if it happens again in, say, 4-6 months, I believe I will then be beyond the 12 months timeframe & can no longer exercise the Lemon Law. Others out there have an opinion on all of this??? *** Update: I just talked with the KY Attorney General's office. He confirmed I needed to put something in writing to Ford about this before the 12 months are up (so in the next 2 months), or the Lemon Law no longer applies. He also mentioned that the "condition" has to reduce the sale value of the car in order to use this law... ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************* Afterthought. PapaJ mentions he got a portable Clore charger. For piece of mind. One of my biggest concerns is being away from home in a parking lot somewhere & finding a dead battery. I like the suggestion of a portable jump charger (like the tow truck guy who used one on my 4th dead battery). This is more preferable to me than continually 'tweaking' it at home. Suggestions for a specific Clore portable model? I think I read Clore 300XL? A check at Amazon lists it at $65 with no shipping charge. A 'good' choice?

Barn48 said: "Don, we had all of the TSB's done since we started having dead batteries and we still continued to have dead batteries. Our car has been at the dealer for 1 month now. We are currently waiting on our buyback, which we are very close to finalizing. They told me that my SYNC, when using my phone through the SYNC, did not shut off and they performed a TSB that was to fix the problem, but a month later we had a dead car again. We too bought it for the 47 mpg, since we are running 4 kids around town. We didn't sign up for or use the Ford Sync My Ride (until the last month of ownership), we only used it for hands free phone calls. Good Luck with your exchange or buyback! Question: Was the 13-7-10 performed? This is a fairly recent TSB... I have not used the SYNC My Ride feature, not do I intend doing so. I am surprised you received a $400 check from Ford after the 2nd dead battery! Sure wonder what their "policy" is & who makes the decision. Did your dealer get the ball rolling on this???

From my service ticket: "Checked (&) found battery dead, charged and tested. Battery passes load test. Performed latest TSB per Ford hotline 13-7-10. Let sit for multiple days. Checked for draws. None above allowed limits." ************************************************************************* Sit time was close to 3 days... Service foreman said there was <0.10v drop in voltage. ***************************************************** Unless I hear from someone in this site that has had this TSB done & later had a dead 12V battery, I plan on giving Ford & the CMAX 1 last chance! Another (5th) dead 12V battery in say < 1 year from now, & I shall toss in the towel, request a buyback & buy an Escape. Sidebar: Just got a check ala FedEx from Ford for $550.00 with the explanation it was for their reduction in mpg for the CMAX from 47 mpg to 43 mpg. This helped salve my 'wounds' a bit...

Question. Some posts speak to the SYNC system staying on. Help me with this. Is the function of the SYNC system to permit you to use the navigation, mobile devices and other such thingees? Can it simply be turned off & not be functional if I don't use any of these? :worship: After some checking (I don't have the owner's manual here. It is in the CMAX at the dealer right now), Seems like "SYNC" has more functions than just the above? Well I just downloaded the owner's manual. It says SYNC is a communication system. Is the associated computer working/activated even though I am not using it? I have not set up an account. ********************************************************************** In case others may have this question also. I called the SYNC line at Ford. Person I talked with said it could not be "turned off" even if I was not using the communication portion. Part of the (integrated) software, I guess...

Thx Laurel. I am happy for you. High techie stuff? I am not a low tech person, & wrote my 1st computer program in 1962. ( I have degrees in physics, Math. & statistics.) I have been using MS Flight Simulator for many years. But for me, the car is meant to get from one place to another, not to talk to people or do other things. I have enough to deal with to avoid the speedy people who are not paying attention to what they are doing! I like driving the CMAX. It seems to handle well. I have a call into my dealer. Will feed back what I find out.

Thx folk. Wab & Laurel in particular. TSB 13-7-10 would seem to be a likely candidate for what was probably just done on my CMAX at the dealer. I shall find out in a day. If this wasn't done, I shall request it be looked into. ************************************************************************************************************************************* Ok. Has anyone had TSB (13-7-10) done & then had a dead 12V battery? I would really like to know about that! ************************************************************************************************************************************* After 4 "dead" 12V batteries that have checked out to be ok with just a mini-jump, I am headed to asking for a full refund & will look seriously at getting a new Escape, instead, from my dealer who has serviced my cars since 1987. (My prior car was a 2006 Escape, which is now my son's car). For whatever, I am 75 and have driven cars for some 60 years. I don't use the high techie stuff in my car. That is not what it is used for for me & was not the reason I bought the CMAX. It was for the 47mpg! I do drive the CMAX every day or 2 on errands. Just not very far. Perhaps 15-20 miles each time. Laurel: My wife of 49 years died of cancer 3 years ago...

Update. As I suspected, the tech at the dealership found the 12V battery had no problems. Since there was no actual charging time involved (the jump was only for about a minute), it is not clear to me what is happening. Tech did perform another (new) TSB. I will not learn which one for 2 days. Tech wants to talk to Ford, which will happen in 2 days (Monday 10/07/13). I plan on having a serious discussion with the salesman/dealership. Question for anyone. My CMAX was purchased in Dec. 2012. Are more recent builds (say after 4-5/13) still experiencing 12V battery (dead) issues? I have not used my 12V charger to actually charge the battery. I simply have hooked it up for a matter of a minute or two to jump-start the car when I experienced no power. I am an old man, living alone & have the CMAX as my only car. I don't want to/plan on having to maintain/charge an automobile battery in order to be able to use it.

drdiesel1 said: "If you heard something running in the back after powering off the car, remember to tell the dealer about it. It could be the cause of the problem and without telling them, they'll most likely miss it. It sounds like an intermittent fault with something staying powered on after shutdown. It's entirely possible that a relay could be sticking for the battery ventilation fan or the controller could have a problem." When the Cmax was picked up, I called the dealer & told the service fellow that has handled my case from the start about a whirring noise the last couple of days in the rear after the car had been turned off. He answered that it could be a cooling fan was just operating, but would check. The tow-truck fellow had to mini-jump it to get it out of park & then no other charging took place. That was what I was told to do by the dealer. It is now at the dealer. Since it is Friday afternoon, I am guessing they might not find anything wrong (that they can identify) but will want to keep it until Monday to see how it acts after not being started for a couple of days. I have an old 6v/12v 6 amp charger (that I have used for years on my old tractor). In the 1st dead battery instance, it was used in order to get it out of park & it was driven onto the roll-back towtruck. The 2nd & 3rd failure dead battery instances, the Cmax was jump-started using it in order to drive it to the dealer. The charger is not portable (requires a 120v connection) so I do not feel it is something I want to depend upon should the dead battery occur while I am not at home! Sidebar. I just looked at my dealers inventory. He has 11 2013 CMaxs. The mpg on the stickers has been changed on the non-Energi models! It now shows 43 overall, with 45 city and 40 highway! Instead of the 47 with 47/47!

Well as a review. Bought the CMAX SE in mid Dec. 2012. Had three 12V battery problems (dead). 1 each on mid-Jan. 2013, mid Feb. 2013 & 1st week of May 2013. Been just fine since...until today (Oct. 4, 2013). So now the 4th time with nothing electrical working. Open the door & no lights go on. Put key in ignition. No response. No lights what-so-ever. I have a call into my service dealer to see what they want to do. Service mgr. to come out to look at it? That may be the case. My dealer has been good about things. Either a free loan car, or can shuttle back & forth from the dealership. Bummer!!! I have printed the post just above about the defective cranking battery in the rear hatch. Over the last couple of days, I did hear a "noise" in the rear of the Cmax went the car had been turned off. Whirring stayed on for awhile. Issue related to "that"??? I am a low mileage driver and only have some 4200 miles on it since Dec. 2012. My overall ave. mpg has gone from 36 initially to over 40 now. That is the main reason I bought it. I really do like the Cmax except for this battery problem! I believe I can jump it with my small battery charger, but am waiting to hear from the dealership.

Update. I did received 2 'recall' notices from Ford. Recall: 13B07 & 13C02. One was to re-program the transmission. The other to reinforce the headliner. I have had both done by my local dealer. Took about 3 hours in total to do both of them. Local dealer has a courtesy vehicle & took me home & back. Clearly both under warranty. I don't believe there had been any safety or other problems that required these...

Adair. Your question about the battery replacement. My battery was replaced after the 1st dead situation. Couldn't find anything work with it, but dealer service mgr. decided to replace it anyway. Could find no identifiable problems with the (new) battery after the 2rd & 3rd dead times. No additional battery replacement. I shall check on the 3.5.1 SYNC upgrade. As indicated above, I only have the 201A package (tailgate lift) & don't use any of the SYNC features.

Update. Been 3 months now since my 3rd battery issue. One thing, my gas mileage has gone up from mid-30's last winter to low 40's this Spring & Summer. That is the main reason I bought this car. I don't use any of the high-tech features & have chosen to turn my AC on & off after I start & before I stop simply as a precaution. I am up in years... Sidebar: Just a heads-up. Owners should be getting notices about re-doing the roof on many CMAXs. A check indicates dealers should start doing this about Aug. 19, 2013. Don't think there have been problems, but this is supposed to strengthen the roof integrity as a safety issue.

Status report & update. Bought CMAX SE on 12/12/12 1st 12V battery failure: 1/18/13. 12V battery replaced. (Had been jumped at home & towed in) 2nd 12V battery failure: 2/23/13. Could not verify a problem. (Had been jumped at home & driven in.) 3rd 12V battery failure: 5/06/13. Jumped at home & driven in. TSBs 130413 & 130501 performed. All failures while in the garage for 3-4 days without starting. Had left it for 4 days in garage in early June without starting as a test. No problems. Lights came on & started immediately. On 6/16/13, CMAX was out in drive overnight in 1/2" of heavy rain. (Done as garage door needed to be repaired...). Started immediately on 6/17/13; current date. No problems or issues to date since 5/06/13.. I do not use a smartphone. No onboard GPS. Present mileage about 2600 mi.

Test case. Had the 2 latest TSBs done. Took 1.5 days as service wanted to monitor any 12V drain for at least 8 hours. After having the CMAX back for several days, I performed a preliminary testcase. My 3 failures were a month to 6 weeks apart & after I left it parked in my garage for 3 days. Jury is still out for the timeframe. But I made a short drive & left it in the garage for 4 days without starting. High voltage level was in the middle of the thermometer gauge when I started it. No problem at this stage. Time will tell for me. Nothing before about the 4th of July would be encouraging to me. Sidebar...mpg. All the 2013 Escapes (4 cyl engines) are rated at 24-26 mpg overall. Assuming that is "close"...MY CMAX right now has close to 2100 miles on it with close to 1/3 of them listed as by electric. That would tell me 1400 miles on gas. 1400 miles/25mpg gives 56 gals used. 2100 miles/56 gals = 37.5 mpg. That is almost exactly what I'm getting overall. Close to 40 mpg now with the warmer temps...

Parallel & in agreement to Salman: Speaking for myself, I would prefer to keep this site focused on the 12V dead battery & experiences that owners are having. Problems & Ford's "solutions". If you have another agenda, suggest you start or try another site. My 3 cents worth. I'm an old man...