Rc0231 Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Hi i am looking for a second car for in town use for my family and am considering a cmax energi. I found a 2013 sel with 85k for 10k which looks like a good price in today’s market. I also found some 2016s for 15-17k that I have inquired about. is there any good way to inspect for the transmission issue on the 2013? Any other known issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc0231 Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 Digging in further, I am in a carb state (wa) so the transmission should be under a 10 year 100k mile warranty is that correct? How would I confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 Actually, Energi didn't have the transmission issue. Because EV mode lets you drive a "long" time, Energi has an electric oil pump. Hybrid relies on periodic engine burns for lubrication, and that's believed related to bearing failures. That's why they can ask $10K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestead Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 The difference in price between the 2013 & 2016 is about the cost of a new transmission. TANSTAAFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr08 Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 45 minutes ago, fbov said: Actually, Energi didn't have the transmission issue. Because EV mode lets you drive a "long" time, Energi has an electric oil pump. Hybrid relies on periodic engine burns for lubrication, and that's believed related to bearing failures. That's why they can ask $10K. Are you sure about this? Have there been any good documented numbers on who has had these bearing issues occur and whether they've owned the hybrid or Energi models? Last thread I recall having any kind of lists was just on this forum and assumed just hybrid owners and even then it has been a while since it has had any activity. Not discounting you, but I am now really curious especially as a '13 Energi owner and getting a bit wary as the miles start creeping up. I am very aware of the added auxiliary trans oil pump on the Energi's. But I had thought the supposed issue was said bearing being improperly installed at the factory and not necessarily something caused by a lack of lubrication. 21 hours ago, Rc0231 said: Digging in further, I am in a carb state (wa) so the transmission should be under a 10 year 100k mile warranty is that correct? How would I confirm? CARB states should actually have a 10yr/150k hybrid warranty which would cover the transmission. The main things to check are 1) Where was the vehicle originally sold? (ensure it was in WA or another CARB state?) and 2) What was the 'in-service' date of the vehicle for the original owner. This will usually fall on or around the original purchase date and Ford will have this on file. This will be where the clock starts counting down on the applicable factory warranties. These also do transfer to subsequent owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 This link: 2013 FORD CMAX ENERGI | NHTSA National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has a place to put in the VIN of the vehicle to find out about recalls and other. The 2013 and 14 Energi did have issues with the electronic transmission and If I remember correctly, a ball bearing was not of the correct density/hardness? You must do a high voltage battery capacity test (fill the battery to full and the drive in EV Now and when it runs out looks at the dash for the kWh rating) on this vehicle or any Energi to find out how much the battery has degraded. At new, it has 5.6kWh capacity. Many owners degrade it to the low 4.0kWh or below levels. The battery degrades because of an inept thermal regulatory management system. The air cool battery pack simply can not keep its self in a normal optimum range 70-83f during the warmer months of the year. Excess driving in EV (hey it is not a battery electric vehicle and has a very small battery pack), excessive multiple charging session like in the heat, parking in the sun all contribute to a degraded battery capacity. Good luck. cr08 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 My data is here. https://avt.inl.gov/ specifically https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-ford-c-max-energi You can also find C-Max Hybrid data, where 3 of 4 trannys failed. Energi saw none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowStorm Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 My 2013 SE failed at 172k and I tore the old one completely apart. The transfer shaft had shifted sideways, worn groves inside the housing (just like Ford's pictures), all the corners of the teeth on one gear were sheared off and the shaft wore a hole clear through the housing. The bearings looked quite good. I don't believe my failure had anything to do with bearing failure or lack of oil with ICE off. The shaft was coming apart. Even if the Energi has less/no failures, we can't just assume its the oil pump difference that is the cause. There could be software differences in control algorithms and operational differences like how often engine braking gets used or, who knows what. Does the Energi even have engine braking? With the larger battery it seems it should rarely be "needed". I refuse to use engine braking anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr08 Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 The Energi still does employ engine braking, but is is SO very rare unless you are operating on a fully charged battery and still putting energy back in. I've only ever had that happen once in my '13 and that was driving through Colorado on I-70 and letting cruise control do the work keeping us at a set speed downhill. It quickly charged the battery back up to full on one stretch and ICE braking took over as expected. And anecdotally I've seen reports here and elsewhere of people reporting it kicking in because they use L gear straight away on a full battery. So it does exist, but as you stated with the large battery it is a very rare occurrence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenmoment Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I can confirm; I have to use D for the first half-mile or so or I get engine braking before I leave the driveway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxo Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) I recently bought the 2016 Energi and I am pretty sure from a rather complete carfax report that the CVT has never had a fluid replacement. Is this wise even though the manual says 150K miles for a fluid replacement? What are thoughts on that, change CVT fluid, or wait the vehicle has 94,000 miles on it today. Single owner, basic local commuter from what I could tell. It is my understanding CVT's run quite hot, and am thinking CVT fluid replacement is relatively cheap compared to a CVT replacement of x thousands. Edited September 29, 2021 by fxo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted September 30, 2021 Report Share Posted September 30, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 4:34 PM, fxo said: ... my understanding CVT's run quite hot ... This isn't your great-grandfather's CVT, it's your father's. The one patented in 1972, not the 1880's. No unusual stresses on the fluid. Ford's recommendation is fine. fxo and cr08 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyk24 Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 4:34 PM, fxo said: I recently bought the 2016 Energi and I am pretty sure from a rather complete carfax report that the CVT has never had a fluid replacement. Is this wise even though the manual says 150K miles for a fluid replacement? What are thoughts on that, change CVT fluid, or wait the vehicle has 94,000 miles on it today. Single owner, basic local commuter from what I could tell. It is my understanding CVT's run quite hot, and am thinking CVT fluid replacement is relatively cheap compared to a CVT replacement of x thousands. Do you know the Energi has an electronic CVT-no belts, no gears. Can't run without the big battery being on. fxo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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