EV+ turned off

[mtb9153]

Okay I decided to see what would happen to my lower mpg numbers vs. what most of you are posting by turning off the EV+ mode.  I did this last night and was eager to see what if any affect it had this morning during my Silicon Valley commute from West San Jose to Cupertino about 10 miles.  This morning my average MPG was reading 40.4 which had been showing for weeks.  As I got onto the major Avenue from my house to highway 17.  Within a mile the avg mpg jumped to 41.3, then by the time I was on the freeway it was reading 42.5.  I've never seen my average that high since buying the Max in September.  After driving the freeway and then onto city streets in Cupertino it had dropped a bit to 42.2.  I switched over to the trip 1 screen and it shown my overall mpg as 43.9.  Once again an all time record for my Max.  Driving around this afternoon it got up to 44.3, much to my excitement, another all time record.

 

So in conclusion switching off the EV+ mode seemed to make a big difference for me.  Plus I like the way the ICE kicks in and out, much smoother and quieter.  I used to get a big thump as it kicked in, it is much smoother now.  I'm looking forward to a sustained drive (of several miles) on the freeway with cruise set to 60-65 to see what improvements there might be? What percentage of battery vs. full EV I get.

 

Not sure if the weather has played anything in this improvement?  Because the last couple day's the bay area experienced spring like weather.  We hit 82 by mid afternoon.  Today was a bit cooler with maybe 79 at the same time.  I am a supervisor for a guard company and drive a set number of miles and route everyday to check on all my employees.  So it is pretty easy for me to be consistent with my daily driving.

 

I am going to try and setup my Logitech webcam to my MacBook laptop to see if I can monitor and record the doors on the front of my radiator using my video capture software, Adobe On-Location.  If I succeed I will post it to the forum or if it is too big to attach, I'll give a link to YouTube for anyone interested.  Later.

[C-MaxJaxon]

Makes no sense. Try alternating it on and off for 8-10 consecutive days and report back. If this really is happening, then maybe something is wrong with your car.

 

[mtb9153]

Makes no sense. Try alternating it on and off for 8-10 consecutive days and report back. If this really is happening, then maybe something is wrong with your car.

 

I don't see how that could be.  I doubt anything is wrong with my Max since it was just into Ford and they supposedly did a complete checkup for scheduled maintenance.

Edited March 15, 2013 by mtb9153

[Bob999]

If the Owners's Manual description of EV+ is correct it is difficult to understand how the EV+ function being turned off could give the mileage changes you report.  I suspect that the increased ambient temperatures you report are the cause of the increased mileage.  I know that my own experience is that mileage at 60 degrees is significantly better than at 40 degrees.  As reported in other posts Ford says temperature can make up to a 5 mpg difference.

 

The Owner's Manual says EV+ (0nly) affects performance within 1/2 mile of a frequent destination and only when EV+ is displayed:

 

 

EV+ Mode

Your vehicle recognizes your frequent destinations and allows for more

EV driving as you approach them. For example, when nearing your home

it should be easier to stay in electric mode. The EV indicator displays

EV+ when this mode is active. Frequent destinations are learned by your

vehicle. These locations can be cleared through the information display.

The EV+ feature can also be turned off. See the Information Displays

chapter for more information.

The EV mode usage changes are based on the following criteria:

• 1/2 mile (1 kilometer) from a familiar destination, your vehicle starts

to raise the accelerator pedal based EV mode threshold.

• 1/8 mile (200 meters) from a familiar destination, your vehicle is in

full EV mode.

• Infrequent destinations have no increase in EV driving.

 

[edman951]

Weather does affect MPG on regular cars, so probably more so on a hybrid, 

My BMW 550 takes a good 3 mpg more in the winter -5F vs summer 77F here in Montreal.

 

This summer, we will probably see more people getting closer to the 47 rated. I hope lol

 

We are getting our C-max tomorrow night, can't wait!!!

[RachelnLa]

Edman, hope you can sleep!

[mtb9153]

Ok since it is possible that the weather here in the bay area has affected my recent numbers increase, I will keep track of my readings for the next 10 days.  I just looked at the 10 day forecast and we are suppose to return to the normal temps for this time of year.  Temps are forecast to be in the 60's unlike the last two days where we hit upper 70's and low 80's.  I will try alternating every other day driving in EV+ to see how it affects things.  I will at the end of each day's commute take pictures of my screen in the morning before my commute and afterwards for the next 10 days and post to the forum at the end.

[C-MaxJaxon]

You should record the temperature, wind speed/direction and initial battery level each day to try to take into account other factors. Wind really has a big influence on mileage.

[kc1174]

Old thread I know, but since reading it about a year ago, I've had some time to see the difference.

First off, I have a Scangauge II and always know the SoC of the high voltage battery. I always try to keep the battery SoC around or above 60 (high being 68 SoC I think - edit: 70). As I'm within about 1/2 mile of home, EV+ kicks in and I park up with the SoC at about 50. While it helped jump up that trip's mpg a bit, I know in the morning, I'll be starting with a low SoC and the ICE will want to fill it up, which affects the next morning's mpg to work.

With EV+ off, I keep it around or over 60 SoC, so better mpg the next day. If the final mile home is downhill, EV+ may help, but if you're coasting downhill home, the battery will be charging anyway. Also, EV+ when arriving at work sucks if you park in a multi level garage. Enter with 60, leave with 45..

As an FYI, I tend to keep the SoC up around 60 on all trips because by driving with ICE just above the blue line on Empower I've been getting great gas mileage even with colder weather (40 mornings, 50 at night). With a 60 SoC battery at say 50mph and the blue charge arrow pointing up or no arrow (true hybrid drive), you'll be getting 60+mpg. Brake up to the next red light and charge it up to 67 SoC or so, and use that 7 to get it back up to speed and you'll still have that 60 SoC available for the next section until you hit a light again. Keeping the SoC at 60 ish isn't difficult but keeping the pedal above the blue line is - don't really have to look at the Empower to see where it is, you'll get used to how the car feels and sounds when you're at that magic spot. Around 62 SoC the car will want to drop to EV. Either let it drop to 60, or give the pedal a kick and get it back on track. Even if the ICE is running and you're above the blue line, at 63+SoC the blue arrow above the battery will likely be pointing down. This is ok as it's really not using much anyway. My daily trips to from work 44 miles and I'm getting 56mpg with this and maybe 10 miles EV.. That's all braking or coasting.. With EV+ on I was getting about 47.

Anyhow, this was supposed to be a response to the EV+ usefulness and I got off track. Depends how you drive, but testing over a long period with and without EV+, having a full or fuller battery I find helps the next trip, so EV+ for me will remain off.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention - the car does seem to learn what you're trying to do. The car will try to use EV if the temperature is good at around 53 SoC. Just give it that tap back into ICE and it somehow learns you don't want to use EV. If it tries again before you're ready, give it another little tap. If the temperature isn't good, I've found I still get a good mpg with a topped up battery, and even at lower speeds and highway. Lifetime per the car figure is now at 49.3 vs 45.2 when I started this stuff a year ago.

Edited February 11, 2015 by kc1174

[NavyRuss]

kc1174,

 

You brought up some issues that have been going through my mind-- what benefit is the EV+ feature to the non-energi hybrid driver?  I can understand you want to ride more in electric mode with an energi close to home so that you can subsequently charge up.  But with the conventional hybrid, I think you made the point that either you are driving downhill home and the car would be in the battery mode and use regenerative charging anyway or you are driving possibly uphill and using more of the battery in EV+ so that your battery will be more drained when you start out on your next trip.  Thus, is EV+ anything more than symbolic to a normal hybrid?  Or is the assumption that if you start the car such as in a cold climate, you will be using the engine and charging the battery anyway on your next trip, thus it makes sense to drain the battery more upon arrival?  However, I also note others in the forum claim that turning the EV+ off seems to improve mileage...?

Edited February 6, 2015 by NavyRuss

[ScubaDadMiami]

Once you know what you are doing, turning EV+ off allows the driver to have more control. I've had mine off for about three months. I can't say that it has made a big difference, but I no longer have to manipulate the gas pedal to come out of EV+ as I do a last charge up on my way home. Probably since I was overriding EV+ with my foot already, that explains why there hasn't been a big change since turning it off. However, I certainly don't have to put any effort into that last mile anymore, and I have found that to be worth it. I am keeping it turned off.

[Adrian_L]

I remember reading that Ford's engineers decided against driving modes--Eco, sport, etc. that the Prius has. They (Ford) felt that they were both gimmicky and unnecessary. Which is pretty much how I feel about the EV+. Unless your trips are remarkably short it really shouldn't affect your mileage very much.

[SPL Tech]

I used to have it on and I turned it off a few weeks ago. I dident notice any change in MPG just as I expected. The only thing I noticed is every time I had it on and I parked my car, the HV was nearly empty. My concern is how extending the discharge cycle would affect batt life. It dident make sense to me to possibly decrease the life of the HV for no worthwhile gain.

 

What I think would be a MUCH better option would be EV+ on demand. That is, I choose when it goes into EV+ mode. Frequently I drive over a rather large hill on the highway. On the way down I completely fill the HV not even half way into the decent. The problem is that I am driving too fast to discharge the HV below the half-way point on the indicator, so I end up going into the decent with an already mostly-charged HV. If I could activate EV+ and use the full torque of MG2 to maintain speed, I could further discharge the HV to allow for more regen on the way down. That would actually save fuel and that would be a much more useful feature.

 

On the other hand, I could see how Ford wouldent want that. Excessave use of EV+ probably results in decrease HV life, and they dont want to deal with early batt replacements.

Edited February 9, 2015 by SPL Tech

[kc1174]

kc1174,

 

You brought up some issues that have been going through my mind-- what benefit is the EV+ feature to the non-energi hybrid driver? I can understand you want to ride more in electric mode with an energi close to home so that you can subsequently charge up. But with the conventional hybrid, I think you made the point that either you are driving downhill home and the car would be in the battery mode and use regenerative charging anyway or you are driving possibly uphill and using more of the battery in EV+ so that your battery will be more drained when you start out on your next trip. Thus, is EV+ anything more than symbolic to a normal hybrid? Or is the assumption that if you start the car such as in a cold climate, you will be using the engine and charging the battery anyway on your next trip, thus it makes sense to drain the battery more upon arrival? However, I also note others in the forum claim that turning the EV+ off seems to improve mileage...?

Hi, sorry went awol for a couple of days there. Yeah the main thing I at least have noticed is - if you keep the hvb SoC as high as possible when getting home, it makes the start of the next journey a little more economical. If you have a cold morning, the car wants to use ice and if the battery is low, it'll take more to get the battery up, but if you start out with a high SoC and it's cold, it'll use the ice, but also use the hvb a little. I've seen at 40 degrees my car go into hybrid drive on ice a minute into the drive, and get over 50mpg on a 44 miles trip. The same trip starting at say 50 SoC, I'll be around 42mpg.

Am not sure what the impact of constantly using ice and keeping the hvb at a high SoC is on the engine or the battery, but time will tell. Like with any batteries, it's sometimes good to drain it to keep it configured right. Without an actual Ford tech who knows what they're talking about, it's difficult to know, but I'll keep doing what I'm doing since the mpg is good. Let's face it, EV+ comes on when you get home and the car's already nicely warmed up. I'd much rather use that energy on a cold engine the next trip. That logic is why I ended up trying this out, and so far it's working for me at least. Much colder climates than where I am where it's low mid 40s and 55-60 in the day, and this might not work as well. Can't hurt to give it a go though.

[kc1174]

I remember reading that Ford's engineers decided against driving modes--Eco, sport, etc. that the Prius has. They (Ford) felt that they were both gimmicky and unnecessary. Which is pretty much how I feel about the EV+. Unless your trips are remarkably short it really shouldn't affect your mileage very much.

I'd like an EV mode "never, unless I'm slowing down or braking", or a "keep the blue bar just under the white bar" mode :)

[scottwood2]

Something to play with but what some are saying is this technique is better than what Ford's engineers came up with for EV+.  Interesting. 

 

I have noticed that I do get better FE in the morning if I start out with a higher SoC but i drive 10 miles to work.  I always looked at this as a trade off as the FE the last trip was less because it charged up the battery before it was parked.  I would think a long 40+ mile trip would see little impact from the SoC at start up.  Weird. 

[kc1174]

Something to play with but what some are saying is this technique is better than what Ford's engineers came up with for EV+. Interesting.

 

I have noticed that I do get better FE in the morning if I start out with a higher SoC but i drive 10 miles to work. I always looked at this as a trade off as the FE the last trip was less because it charged up the battery before it was parked. I would think a long 40+ mile trip would see little impact from the SoC at start up. Weird.

Hiya. Not sure why, but EV+ off does help on my 44 mile commute. Ran it with for 6 mos Jan to June last year, and since July it's been off. My trip is basically 2 or 3 mile 45/50mph stretches with lights in between and some stretches a bit longer. Great fun... Anyway, I think starting off with a good SoC gets me into a good rhythm where I'm cruising along while charging at 60 SoC, brake to 65 or 66 at the lights, then accelerate to 60 SoC - rinse and repeat. With less SoC at the start of the journey, it throws that whole SoC rhythm off if you know what I mean. EV off for me maybe helps because I'm driving trying to keep the SoC high, so using ICE more than maybe I should. Btw, I think EV+ was designed to inflate the trip mpg, so I think the engineers knew what they were doing ;) The way I guess I see it is - if we start a trip at 60 SoC and end at 60, and got 50mpg, that was a true 50 mpg. Start with 60 SoC and end at 40 - the mpg may be higher than 50, but that 20 is more use to me tomorrow. At least that's what I think. I dunno, I could be wrong :) Edited February 11, 2015 by kc1174

[plus 3 golfer]

Hiya. Not sure why, but EV+ off does help on my 44 mile commute. Ran it with for 6 mos Jan to June last year, and since July it's been off. My trip is basically 2 or 3 mile 45/50mph stretches with lights in between and some stretches a bit longer. Great fun... Anyway, I think starting off with a good SoC gets me into a good rhythm where I'm cruising along while charging at 60 SoC, brake to 65 or 66 at the lights, then accelerate to 60 SoC - rinse and repeat. With less SoC at the start of the journey, it throws that whole SoC rhythm off if you know what I mean. EV off for me maybe helps because I'm driving trying to keep the SoC high, so using ICE more than maybe I should. Btw, I think EV+ was designed to inflate the trip mpg, so I think the engineers knew what they were doing ;) The way I guess I see it is - if we start a trip at 60 SoC and end at 60, and got 50mpg, that was a true 50 mpg. Start with 60 SoC and end at 40 - the mpg may be higher than 50, but that 20kwh is more use to me tomorrow. At least that's what I think. I dunno, I could be wrong :)

 

FYI, the capacity of the Hybrid HVB is 1.4 kWh. SOC is measured in % not kWh.    The operating range of the HVB will never be greater than around 0.56 kWh (from about 70% maximum SOC to around 30% minimum SOC). The battery gauge does not show a true SOC of the battery but rather is an indication of the operating range of the HVB where when the battery tip is full = about 70 % SOC.  

[kc1174]

FYI, the capacity of the Hybrid HVB is 1.4 kWh. SOC is measured in % not kWh. The operating range of the HVB will never be greater than around 0.56 kWh (from about 70% maximum SOC to around 30% minimum SOC). The battery gauge does not show a true SOC of the battery but rather is an indication of the operating range of the HVB where when the battery tip is full = about 70 % SOC.

Thanks! I seem to have been playing it fast and loose with the SoC vs. kwh in my posts. I'll go back in and change kwh references to SoC. You're right about the battery gauge - the Scangauge II I use was probably the most useful thing I've bought for the C-Max, after tint. Thanks!

[fbov]

... The operating range of the HVB will never be greater than around 0.56 kWh (from about 70% maximum SOC to around 30% minimum SOC). ...  

This is why I love EV+, and really miss it these days, as it hasn't found my place of business yet after the last PCM update.

 

EV+ is a way to get more EV range out of the car at a time when it's very safe to do so - just before a rest. As Plus 3 notes above, you can't discharge the HVB fully, so there's no danger there.

 

A little research reveals that EV+ may be a very smart thing to use! This comes from Battery University, reporting on research performed at Ohio State, in conjunction with Oak Ridge National Labs and NIST.

 

You kill Li-ion batteries by storing them fully charged, and at high temperatures.

Optimum storage conditions are 40% charged.

 

Sound like EV+ is one easy way to consistently leave the HVB at a favorable charge level to minimize charge capacity loss during storage. That kind of trumps all the other arguements, don't you think?

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[SPL Tech]

This is why I love EV+, and really miss it these days, as it hasn't found my place of business yet after the last PCM update.

 

EV+ is a way to get more EV range out of the car at a time when it's very safe to do so - just before a rest. As Plus 3 notes above, you can't discharge the HVB fully, so there's no danger there.

 

A little research reveals that EV+ may be a very smart thing to use! This comes from Battery University, reporting on research performed at Ohio State, in conjunction with Oak Ridge National Labs and NIST.

 

You kill Li-ion batteries by storing them fully charged, and at high temperatures.

Optimum storage conditions are 40% charged.

 

Sound like EV+ is one easy way to consistently leave the HVB at a favorable charge level to minimize charge capacity loss during storage. That kind of trumps all the other arguements, don't you think?

 

HAve fun,

Frank

I wouldent take what you read from one source as fact. I have heard so many "facts" about how you should store lithium ion batteries that I dont think anyone actually knows. I have heard reputable sources, including battery manufacturers, say to store them at 90% charged, others say 50%, and everything in in between. The only common ground I have found is no one recommends completely discharging them.

[plus 3 golfer]

I wouldent take what you read from one source as fact. I have heard so many "facts" about how you should store lithium ion batteries that I dont think anyone actually knows. I have heard reputable sources, including battery manufacturers, say to store them at 90% charged, others say 50%, and everything in in between. The only common ground I have found is no one recommends completely discharging them.

You need to provide the source of your facts.  Otherwise, it's heresay.  I'd say the Oak Ridge boys are pretty smart and credible.  

 

Just got a new smartphone and I was surprised that the lithium ion battery when inserted showed around a 50+ % charge (can't recall exact number but it was in the 50s).  

 

I don't think it's just coincidence that Ford limits the Hybrid HVB operations between 30-70% SOC, normally operates the battery between mid-high 30s to mid - high 50s % SOC (based on my many observations and recordings of SOC) and that Ford's key life tests (curves) reported before show very little battery degradation over several 100k miles.   

[Adrian_L]

I've been an RV enthusiast for years and this 40% optimum charge was news to me.  I'm not saying they are wrong, but isn't "fully-charged=best" the rule of thumb for most batteries?

I'd like to read what lithium ion manufactures recommend.  Or folks like Makita who use lithium ion batteries in their tools.

[fbov]

I wouldent take what you read from one source as fact. ... I have heard reputable sources... say to store them at 90% charged, others say 50%, and everything in in between. ,,,

That's why I provided attribution... and I I found lots of sites, but this was the best one.

 

Every battery technology is different, so it's possible the sources were right about different battery types. This is specific to Li-ion, and from a site doing current research, in conjunction with a major university and national laboratories. Skepticism has it's value, up to a point.

 

Have fun,

Frank