Is the C-Max still the way to go? What would you do today?

[Nervous but Excited]

I drive a 2017 Energi and I absolutely love it.
My sister in law is in the market for a car. Home charging isn't an option for her, but I still think that the C-Max Hybrid is a really really good option for her needs. Are there any other cars that you would look at give the following specs:

-price sensitivity

-cargo space is important

-MPG is important

-Will be used for commuting, and weekend trips between LA and San Diego. 

[adam1991]

Energi will get you the used car tax credit if you buy it from a dealer, but if cargo space is important it's not the car for you.

 

Same with small turning radius.  I swear, Mack trucks could turn inside a C-Max turning radius.

[Nervous but Excited]

Yeah, I desperately want to understand *why* the turning radius is so bad... It just doesn't make sense!

Okay - good to know that there still isn't a big competitor in the space that I am unaware of.

[homestead]

Front wheel drive causes larger turning radius.

[adam1991]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:35 PM, homestead said:

Front wheel drive causes larger turning radius.

that's not the issue here.

 

The issue is that the C-Max turning radius is abnormally large.  No other car its size, rear or front wheel drive, has a turning radius anywhere near that large.

[homestead]

2013 Prius turning radius 17.1 to 18′

2013 C-max turning radius 19.19'

 

Didn't notice it until the first time I tried a U-turn. 

[SnowStorm]

Well, I keep seeing this complaint about the turning radius but even after 245,000 miles and almost ten years I could hardly care less.  I'm not even sure I would have ever noticed it if I hadn't read about it on this forum.  We all have different things that annoy us and different driving/parking situations but for most folks it shouldn't be a significant issue.  I sure wouldn't let it rule out selecting a C-Max over another car.

[cr08]

Yep. The only time the turning radius has bothered me personally has been maybe two or three times tops in my ~6 years of ownership now.

 

As far as the WHY? My semi-educated guess is something mechanical may be restricting how far the steering components can travel. I bet if one had access to a lift and checked it out from underneath, all underbody covers removed of course, while turning lock to lock you could probably get an idea if there's something there getting in the way. I would do this myself but don't have access to a lift. I've wanted to get a set of those 'sled' style compact lifts for home garages but they are quite a bit out of my price range.

[Wheatridger]

It's not just because it's FWD- every AWD car is also a front wheel drive, and the only RWD cars are sports cars. The C-Max's wide turning radius is disappointing, but it's rarely a problem for me, or even a nuisance. I'm guessing that this chassis, which was sold for a decade in Europe before it came to North America as a hybrid, was re-equipped with wider tires and wheels. That might have created some clearance problem that limits their swing. 

 

Would I buy a C-Max again? That's what I suggested to a guy I met on the Quora site today. His 2013 SE was getting "a little tired." It had 209,000 miles! He loves the C-Max, but was pondering an EV instead. I suggested he get a late-model, low mileage C-Max instead. I'm also shopping for an SUV for tougher duties, and testing brands like Mercedes, Volvo and Lincoln. With a $30K used budget, I'm finding it hard to match the C-Max's options level and comfort. And none of the others have such responsive, well-weighted steering. 

[takingittothemax]

I love the steering in this era of Euro-developed Fords. I wish they were a little chattier, but barely anything from any brand in this era is. They're just well weighted, heavy enough without needing build your biceps, just enough feel, and stable at highway speeds so that a slight motion off center doesn't send you careening towards the next lane.

[jzchen]

I remember the turning radius may have bothered me a few times in our approximate 5 years of ownership, when I needed to make a U turn.  If you make a lot of them I can see how annoying an issue it could become.  I do suspect FWD plus suspension design limits it, but they did an excellent job (with the weight) as Ford builds excellent trucks.  I loved how it drove:  excellent alignment setup, (tires wore nice and even,) combined with the V rated Michelins, boy could that car move!

[Adrian_L]

I can think of a few things that bug me about the car, but the turning radius is about 3 out of 100 on the importance scale for me.

 

Overall this car has been a 9/10 for me.   I had to replace a bad injector about 3 years ago (decided to replace all four) and the horn stopped working due to rust/corrosion inside the connector.   Compared to Audi and BMW that I have owned in the past, I have been amazed that the car is so reliable.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Adrian_L

[Hafro Samurai]

Wow.....well you both are severely lucky to have the experience you've had. Well back in 2021 by uncle reached out and asked if I'd like to inherit the 2013 SEL my aunt purchased new passed away the year so he had no use for it. I said "Yes please!" as my Triumph Striple was giving me some electrical grief (was an all season rider for years living in the Seattle area since my 2000 Subaru GC8's trans was shot and sat during that time). Skip forward to picking the car up from my uncle. Not a clue which model it was, nor what color (blue), but when I got in and looked at the odo my jaw dropped at seeing just under 17,500mi. Here I was thinking I just scored a new car hah for free......little did I know what was in store.

The 1st year my uncle already had got a year of insurance so it was under his name.......during that year I popped 2 of the 4 og tires as they were brittle and riddled with micro cracks. Other 2 were replaced soon after.

(GRIPE #1): Not firing the geniuses who thought up and approved, "Remove the spare, give them an 1 shot device that will only help with a small leak! Oh and since they won't have a spare and clearly that's the only reason people jack up their cars."

Wow I didn't see this to urning into a novel hah...I pick up the pace.

Fast forward to summer 2022. Time for me to put the car in my name we had already filled out the proper documents. Get to the dol and...low and behold you can only gift a vehicle once (in WA at least). Slapped with tax on fair market value of over $12k (Seattle sales tax was 10.1% at the time too haha). I didn't know how to work the system until afterward. Then my move to OR is when this thing just gained some baditude. Now I had already made 2 or 3 trips down to the Portland area and it was smooth and quiet. By now I was maybe at 32k miles and moved in July. Buddy of mine hooked it up with a job when I got here delivering luggage airlines lose. I figured what a perfect job with this hybrid with ample capacity. For those of you not familiar with the great PNW, our roads are seemingly always in need of attention. I would say about late August I was noticing more road noise and the ride was not as smooth anymore. Got rotations and balancing at appropriate mileage and everything. Got an alignment and by then I was getting that rear squat look (and no, I am NOT into the stanced look nor functionality). The alignment shop said my suspension was all good and brakes too. During a 2 week period I have the balance checked 3 times and was all good. Now in all of this one day I got a screw in my tire around 4am (doing late night/morning deliveries), had to go home until discount tire opened across the street from me (this was my second time since moving I got a leak). Back to delivering by 9ish and on my way to last delivery ding.....check engine light. Auto shop let me scan it and was thrown p0304 (misfires in cylinder 4.

By no means was did I know my way around cars let alone a hybrid. I knew just some of the basics like oil changes brake rotors/pads, spark plugs and the sort. So being a hands on learner and craving some new knowledge I decided I'd do as much as I was comfortable with. So after all new spark plugs was still getting misfires so I did the ignition coils next. Nope! Okay so logically based on no other related codes being thrown I could afford a new injector. I curse the buttfaces on the internet who give out incorrect info. I red the number 4 cylinder was the third from the left. (It's not, it's the last one on the right) well that check engine light would go away and reappear a few times before it went out for awhile at least. Sometimes in Sept I took my car for a real good inspection and asked them to really get into the suspension and figured they'd run into an issue they could diagnose and fix. Also to clear any codes they found. They didn't see any codes nor find anything wrong with the car.....I was seriously thinking I was going crazy at that point. Not 1 mechanic or technician who all know more than I can find the issue or feel/hear it like me. Oddly enough I went back to the auto shop for a scan and sure enough that p0304 was still present. Then not a month after the Ford shop's inspection I hit a long and wide pothole on a county road during dusk. No popped rire yay. a week later by shock gave out on the freeway and evey tiny bump sounded like I was bottoming out.

Fast forward to now, I have replaced (learned to and did the work myself too!) Both shocks, front lower control arms, outer tie rods, front and rear sway bar links (twice now as the first time I torqued while unloaded), rear upper control arms (yes the forward ones to correct the camber). I went with Moog parts and got them for a steal on Amazon. Well at this point I realized that I didn't trust the factory suspension so I found some coilovers as I figured it'd be nice to be able to adjust my damping to better tackle crazy roads we come up against delivering. This took a lot longer than I had guessed it would. Not having a place to work on it at home means I'm using what little windows of good weather there are to work on it in flat parking lots around here. I legit succeeded with the install but then had a lot of adjustments so was going to have a shop take over so I could let my body heal.

Needless to say. I'm quite certain this sour faced lemon joke of a free car is the bane of my existence. Had to run up to Seattle before that appointment and a car up ahead and a lane over ran over a deer and caused it to come over to my lane in front of me. I actually didn't feel thuds or crunches but more glides over it. no tire leaks but blood fluids and fur were all up under the car and wheel wells. And something was indeed wrong. Pulled into a shell and looked see the coil springs on the front and the coils were almost touching. Spent an hour plus adjusting them and got back on it only to pull off in another few miles. After all said and done I discovered one of the springs is permanently 5mm shorter. Then I did some digging and discovered the Godspeed project monoss coilovers for the C-max have the very same spring rates as the roughly 600lb lighter Focus. Which I think was more the problem than the deer. It would explain why the rear at near maximum ride heigh setting is still pretty low. And would certainly cause springs to overcompress.

Regardless, I like how much I've learned but I've been out of work since the day before Thanksgiving. Though I like to say I saved a ton (likely in the $4000 range from doing work myself). I also highly recommend a bidirectional scan tool (I got a ThinkDiag2) as you can test components from your phone app rather than hunt down the part then run texts. 

Okay wow....I'm done (definitely left out much more) but I need some sleep and to regain feeling in my frozen toes haha. I am also more than happy to try and help out whoever. Once I get the coilovers sorted though I'll try And post my thoughts and feeling of them. Maybe throw up some pictures too  Not all were created equally hahaha. I've ever my car a C-min(imum).

Good luck!

 

 

 

[Wheatridger]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:22 PM, takingittothemax said:

I love the steering in this era of Euro-developed Fords. I wish they were a little chattier, but barely anything from any brand in this era is. They're just well weighted, heavy enough without needing build your biceps, just enough feel, and stable at highway speeds so that a slight motion off center doesn't send you careening towards the next lane.

Amen to that! My benchmark was an '09 MkV GTI, one of the most acclaimed VWs. After that was totaled out my the worst hailstorm in Colorado history, I bought my first C-Max. I missed the flat handling of the GTI, but the Ford's steering was on par. It gives these cars a liveliness and sense of precision. I love the way the wheel snaps back to dead center; at intersections, you just steer into the turn and release the wheel, so the car does half the steering work for you. I wish the Mercedes SUV I just bought had similar steering. At slow speeds and sharp angles, you actually have to manually unwind the steering back to straight ahead. That GLK has an extremely fight turning radius however. Could those two factors be related?

[takingittothemax]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:35 PM, Wheatridger said:

I wish the Mercedes SUV I just bought had similar steering. At slow speeds and sharp angles, you actually have to manually unwind the steering back to straight ahead. That GLK has an extremely fight turning radius however. Could those two factors be related?

 

No, that seems to be a fairly typical trait of Mercedes of that era. From memory the C- and E-Classes of that ilk were like that too.

[takingittothemax]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:35 PM, Wheatridger said:

Amen to that! My benchmark was an '09 MkV GTI, one of the most acclaimed VWs.

 

That GTI (in fact most Golfs and Polos of that age) had wonderfully sharp and precise steering. They just felt so wonderfully agile, even if there was a sluggish diesel under the hood.

[qdogfball]

I would personally go with a Toyota Prius or Prius Prime as a do over...  if I could FIT in one.. (Wife owns 2009 Prius, and I can barely see out the window.  6'4" tall)

 

Cargo space is Non existent in a C-Max

[stolenmoment]

I've got my eye on the Subaru Solterra; has anybody seen one yet?

[jzchen]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:52 AM, stolenmoment said:

I've got my eye on the Subaru Solterra; has anybody seen one yet?

 

Only at the LA Auto Show.

[homestead]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:52 AM, stolenmoment said:

I've got my eye on the Subaru Solterra; has anybody seen one yet?

Interesting, reminds me of a RAV4.  Still looking for a replacement for our 2013 c-Max.  I’ll add that one to our list.

[takingittothemax]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:52 AM, stolenmoment said:

I've got my eye on the Subaru Solterra; has anybody seen one yet?

 

They're pretty rare at the moment because both the Solterra and bZ4X have been recalled twice for wheels that might fall off.

[stolenmoment]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:43 PM, takingittothemax said:

 

They're pretty rare at the moment because both the Solterra and bZ4X have been recalled twice for wheels that might fall off.

*sigh*

[Wheatridger]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:58 PM, takingittothemax said:

 

That GTI (in fact most Golfs and Polos of that age) had wonderfully sharp and precise steering. They just felt so wonderfully agile, even if there was a sluggish diesel under the hood.

Mine, like all US GTIs, had a 200-hp 2 liter turbo. It was stupidly fast, and that made it difficult to drive hard in any responsible fashion. My C-Max's performance is more similar to my mid-60s GTI, without a turbo. Same 0-60 times!

[Wheatridger]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:02 AM, Hafro Samurai said:

Wow.....well you both are severely lucky to have the experience you've had. Well back in 2021 by uncle reached out and asked if I'd like to inherit the 2013 SEL my aunt purchased new passed away the year so he had no use for it...

 

Okay wow....I'm done (definitely left out much more) but I need some sleep and to regain feeling in my frozen toes haha. I am also more than happy to try and help out whoever. Once I get the coilovers sorted though I'll try And post my thoughts and feeling of them. Maybe throw up some pictures too  Not all were created equally hahaha. I've ever my car a C-min(imum).

Good luck!

 

 

 

I haven't read of anyone performing so many repairs and mods on a C-Max. What a struggle you've had! But look at how much you've learned. One lesson might be to rely on a trained mechanic, especially for your diagnoses of the problem. Your search for the no. 4 cylinder, for example, would have been unnecessary. Ditto for the tie rod ends. Learning to work on your own car is a great skill, but should you learn on your own car? Then you have to drive your mistakes.

 

Hard to imagine how so many suspension parts would wear out so fast. Was your aunt racing in forest rallies? My two C-Max have 1120K miles between them and haven't even needed a realignment. How heavy is the luggage you're delivering? 

 

If you ever get done with your mods, you ought to have the best-suspended C-max around. With coilovers!

[Wheatridger]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:37 AM, qdogfball said:

Not in the plain Hybrid model, which is a mini-minvan inside.

 

Cargo space is Non existent in a C-Max