Interesting information on the High Voltage Battery

[HannahWCU]

I have been looking for information on xgauge codes for using my scangauge in my CMax.  From another forum I found the code(s) for the State Of Charge.  There are two:

 

TXD: 07E4224801
RXF: 046205480601
RXD: 3008

MTH: 00850064FFB0
NAM: SoC

 

And

 

TXD: 07E4224801
RXF: 046245480601
RXD: 3010

MTH : 000100050000
NAM:SOC

 

I have purposely made the name (NAM:) different on both for clarity. I believe that SOC code displays the actual state of charge for the battery and the SoC code displays "useful" charge. I have read where to extend the life of batteries, hybrids don't use all the capacity of thier batteries.  In other words, it doesn't charge it to 100% and discharge it to 0%.  I have been running both gauges simultaneously on my scangauge for a few days and this is what I have found:

 

When SoC reads 100 - SOC reads 69.7

When SoC reads 80 - SOC reads 62.1

When SoC reads 70 - SOC reads 58.0

When SoC reads 50 - SOC reads 50.4

When SoC reads 30 - SOC reads 42.7

 

This is pretty close to linear, with each 1% on SoC = 0.38 on SOC.  If I do my math right that would mean that the Cmax Hybrid keeps its battery charge between 31.5% and 69.7%.  So it uses just over 38% of its capacity. So this backs up what I read about Hybrids not using the full capacity of the batteries. Any thought on this?

 

BTW, the SoC code reflects what the Cmax bar graph shows.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2014 by HannahWCU

[fotomoto]

Yes this is standard hybrid practice to extend battery life.  General rule of thumb is 80% charge to 20% discharge.  Looks like the CMAX at 70/30 is even more conservative (good thing) which should promote a nice long life.

 

THANKS for doing the legwork! 

Edited May 8, 2013 by fotomoto

[Tdefny]

That coincides with my experience on the Energi. It is always around 5.4 kwh when I get home if it used up all its grid power.

[GaryM]

On a few of my trips, I have a very long downhill section and I see the SoC bar graph top out, even filling the extra bump on the top of the battery, and it will still show the "^" charging indicator above the battery SoC bar graph. It would be interesting to have your scan tool watch and see if it really is still putting a bit more into the battery in that situation. It certainly still felt like regen braking and gave a good regen score when I did have to stop at the bottom of the hill. My scan tool only gives trouble codes and if the car is ready for an emissions test, so I can't look at that data.

[HannahWCU]

I can say for certain that when the battery SoC is 100% (bar graph if full) it stops charging. If you are traveling down a long grade and the hill descent mode on, when the battery is charged the ICE will engage to replace the regen. I have observed this several times.

[salsaguy]

and if you have hill decent OFF in the same situation what does it do differently??

[Noah Harbinger]

and if you have hill decent OFF in the same situation what does it do differently??

 

If I understand correctly, it engages the friction brakes to replace the regenerative braking. 

[GaryM]

Just yesterday, I had the bar graph top out with about a half mile of down hill left. I felt no change in the braking and the little regen spinning arrow kept going as well as the up arrow above the battery bar graph. I agree it will not go to 100 % of the true battery capacity, but it sure seems to go a bit past the 70% which is the top of the bar graph. I say this because once I did get to flat ground, I drove in EV mode over a half mile before the first pixel dropped off the top of the bar graph. The other times it just topped out before the bottom of the hill, it was a pixel down in a block on the same route. The difference this time was my drive up the hill was charging more due to traffic pattern, I could not keep it discharging, it kept going to the up arrow on me. Even on the very same stretch of road, it does not always do the same thing. I thought I had figured out the pattern, but then it changes again. On different slopes of up hill, I see it go from using battery to help climb, to neutral, no charge or discharge, and many times it will be in charge as I am climbing the hill. I thought I had found if I go a little slower into the hill and then slightly accelerate while climbing, it would go to discharge, using the battery to help climb and leave the battery lower on the bar graph when I got to the top to start my decent, but the last 2 days it did not work, and it charged. It fully topped out again today, but not by as much, I only made it 3 blocks before the first pixel row dropped off the battery SOC bar graph. I guess that is about as close as I can get to topping out the battery consistently on this route.

 

In an SAE article about the C-Max batteries, I found something interesting. The Hybrid and the Energi versions are not just different amp hour capacity, but also different voltage. That would explain to me more about the top speed difference in electric mode. The Hybrid is 76 cells in series and the Energi is 84 cells in series. These are lithium-ion (nickel-manganese-cobalt oxide) cells which have a nominal voltage of 3.6 per cell for a pack voltage of 273.6 volts for the hybrid and 302.4 volts in the Energi. Given the same volt to speed ratio, if the Energi could do 85, it should still mean the hybrid would be able to do 76 or so. The 62 mph was obviously programmed in, and as we now know, the software can push it up higher.

[HannahWCU]

If I understand correctly, it engages the friction brakes to replace the regenerative braking. 

 

In my experience it does not engage the friction brakes.  If it did, my brakes would be red hot and smoking before I got to the bottom of the mountain I was on (6% grade for 6 miles!!).

 

Just yesterday, I had the bar graph top out with about a half mile of down hill left. I felt no change in the braking and the little regen spinning arrow kept going as well as the up arrow above the battery bar graph. I agree it will not go to 100 % of the true battery capacity, but it sure seems to go a bit past the 70% which is the top of the bar graph.

 

(NOTE: when I am discussing battery charge I am discussing useful charge, not actual charge. Useful charge is what the bar graph on the dash displays)

 

Again, from what I have experienced using the scangauge, the battery will not go above 100%.  I think that the bar graph in the display is not linear. My scangauge will read 50% when the bar gauge appears to be at ~65%.  90% on the scangauge appears to be very close to 100% on the bar graph.  My opinion is that since the bar graph is relatively small, Ford programed the graph to expand the scale in the middle and compress it at the top and bottom. Since, the middle area is where the charge will be most of the time, this makes the bar graph more useful.

 

Your experience is what I notice too.  The graph moves very little when the charge is above 90% or below 10% (although it is VERY hard to get the charge below 10%).

[bigalpha]

Have you noticed a difference when the car is in EV+ mode?  I feel like there is a significant difference between EV+ and EV in regards to the amount of power delivered to the wheels.

[GaryM]

YES! very much so, I feel a lot more all electric torque under EV+ if my battery is above 60% or so. I was a bit surprised how hard it pulled doing the left turn into my development, I figured it must have fired the ICE, but it had not, it was just EV+. I had to try it a few more times to be sure. It would be wonderful to have that available for a few seconds each start when the battery is near full, but no, just when close to home.

[hybridbear]

This is great info on SOC! I think I read this thread before I had an SGII and I forgot about it. Thanks HannahWCU for posting a link to this topic as I have now printed out your post to try on my ScanGauge in my FFH! Thank you! :worship:

[hybridbear]

I think that the bar graph in the display is not linear. My scangauge will read 50% when the bar gauge appears to be at ~65%.  90% on the scangauge appears to be very close to 100% on the bar graph.  My opinion is that since the bar graph is relatively small, Ford programed the graph to expand the scale in the middle and compress it at the top and bottom. Since, the middle area is where the charge will be most of the time, this makes the bar graph more useful.

 

Your experience is what I notice too.  The graph moves very little when the charge is above 90% or below 10% (although it is VERY hard to get the charge below 10%).

I have discovered this too using the XGauge programming you provided in our FFH.

 

I have been looking for information on xgauge codes for using my scangauge in my CMax.  From another forum I found the code(s) for the State Of Charge.  There are two:

 

TXD: 07E4224801

RXF: 046205480601

RXD: 3008

MTH: 00850064FFB0

NAM: SoC

 

And

 

TXD: 07E4224801

RXF: 046245480601

RXD: 3010

MTH : 000100050000

NAM:SOC

 

I have purposely made the name (NAM:) different on both for clarity. I believe that SOC code displays the actual state of charge for the battery and the SoC code displays "useful" charge. I have read where to extend the life of batteries, hybrids don't use all the capacity of their batteries.  In other words, it doesn't charge it to 100% and discharge it to 0%.  I have been running both gauges simultaneously on my scangauge for a few days and this is what I have found:

 

When SoC reads 100 - SOC reads 69.7

When SoC reads 80 - SOC reads 62.1

When SoC reads 70 - SOC reads 58.0

When SoC reads 50 - SOC reads 50.4

When SoC reads 30 - SOC reads 42.7

 

This is pretty close to linear, with each 1% on SoC = 0.38 on SOC.  If I do my math right that would mean that the Cmax Hybrid keeps its battery charge between 31.5% and 69.7%.  So it uses just over 38% of its capacity. So this backs up what I read about Hybrids not using the full capacity of the batteries. Any thought on this?

 

BTW, the SoC code reflects what the Cmax bar graph shows.

Does your SOC # on the ScanGauge have a decimal point? When I put your XGauge code in it does display what I'm expecting except without the decimal...So I see 497 instead of 49.7 for example.

 

Does anyone know how to fix this?

Edited October 8, 2013 by hybridbear

[webcontrol]

How to set car into EV+ mode?

[salsaguy]

you can set it in the settings menu to turn it on or off if you want it active or not.

to setup a location to learn you have to visit it many times but you can FORCE it to learn a location that you go to all the time (your home, work, moms house, etc) by turning the car on and off about 14 times (if I remember correctly.... it might be only 7) search around the forum and you will find more info on it.

 

thats if you dont want to wait the 2-4 WEEKS for the car to learn by itself, per the owners manual info

 

watch this video to learn more about EV+ here:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ford-hybrids-ev-feature-learns-drivers-destinations.html

 

See pg 187 of your 2013 owners manual (3rd printing) for details about EV+:

https://owner.ford.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Owner/Page/OwnerGuidePage&year=2013&make=Ford&model=C-MAX+Hybrid

 

some folks dont like it as it discharges the battery too low when you get to home

some say it saves gas as you run in all EV when within about a 1/4 to 1/8th of a mile from your home/EV+ location(s)

you cant just put one in like a destination on your gps and I think its limited to 3 slots at most (per users experience posts here)

 

How to set car into EV+ mode?

Edited March 2, 2014 by salsaguy

[ptjones]

On my trip to SF and back I experienced a number of times on long down hills the HVB would max out and stop charging and no REG. I had to use the brakes to slow down and wished I had a bigger HVB to keep on charging. The Chevron goes away when fully charged and there is very little resistance if any going down hill. It seems so bazaar to have to step on the brakes and lose energy. IMO :) 

 

Paul 

[ScubaDadMiami]

On my trip to SF and back I experienced a number of times on long down hills the HVB would max out and stop charging and no REG. I had to use the brakes to slow down and wished I had a bigger HVB to keep on charging. The Chevron goes away when fully charged and there is very little resistance if any going down hill. It seems so bazaar to have to step on the brakes and lose energy. IMO :)

 

Paul 

If you had activated Hill Assist, you would have heard ICE dry firing after the battery is fully topped off. It's really freaky the first time that ICE is on without using gas!

[plus 3 golfer]

If you had activated Hill Assist, you would have heard ICE dry firing after the battery is fully topped off. It's really freaky the first time that ICE is on without using gas!

Yes, I use it all the time and virtually never have to touch the brakes on long descents.  It's better than downshifting / upshifting a conventional transmission when descending as engine rpm will change (up /down) to maintain speed.  I also shift to L if I'm coming to a sharp curve and need more engine braking to reduce speed.  Then, when coming out of the curve, shift to D and disable hill assist to pick up speed again.

[ptjones]

If you had activated Hill Assist, you would have heard ICE dry firing after the battery is fully topped off. It's really freaky the first time that ICE is on without using gas!

Are you saying that ICE will run using no gas?  Are there any side effects in doing that?  I will try it next time I'm going down steep grade. Thanks :)

 

Paul

[ScubaDadMiami]

Are you saying that ICE will run using no gas?  Are there any side effects in doing that?  I will try it next time I'm going down steep grade. Thanks :)

 

Paul

Yes, the engine turns but does not use any gas to do it. It's part of the design, so I assume that the engine is built to do it.

[webcontrol]

It seems EV+ only has on Energi, not hybrid.  This is hybrid forum, so that I was expecting people only talks about hybrid.

This just showed Ford is NOT full heart to make best hybrid cars.  With both Hybrid and Energi using same engine and SAME electrical motor, WHY hybrid is not allowed to enter EV+ mode?  Maybe if they allow EV+ mode, hybrid will have better MPG than Energi model, so that Ford purposely limited hybrid performance.

[plus 3 golfer]

It seems EV+ only has on Energi, not hybrid.  This is hybrid forum, so that I was expecting people only talks about hybrid.

This just showed Ford is NOT full heart to make best hybrid cars.  With both Hybrid and Energi using same engine and SAME electrical motor, WHY hybrid is not allowed to enter EV+ mode?  Maybe if they allow EV+ mode, hybrid will have better MPG than Energi model, so that Ford purposely limited hybrid performance.

Not true.  EV+ is on hybrid.

 

EV+ Mode

Your vehicle recognizes your frequent destinations and allows for more

EV driving as you approach them. For example, when nearing your home

it should be easier to stay in electric mode. The EV indicator displays

EV+ when this mode is active. Frequent destinations are learned by your

vehicle. These locations can be cleared through the information display.

The EV+ feature can also be turned off. See the Information Displays

chapter for more information.

The EV mode usage changes are based on the following criteria:

• 1/2 mile (1 kilometer) from a familiar destination, your vehicle starts

to raise the accelerator pedal based EV mode threshold.

• 1/8 mile (200 meters) from a familiar destination, your vehicle is in

full EV mode.

• Infrequent destinations have no increase in EV driving.

Note: Learning frequent destination takes approximately two to four

weeks of use.

Note: Familiar destination locations are reset through the information

display when the trip information is reset.

 

 

Unique Driving Characteristics 181

2013 C-Max Full Hybrid (34h)

Owners Guide gf, 1st Printing

USA (fus)

[fbov]

But to share webcontrol's frustration, EV+ isn't available when you need it, it's available when the car thinks you might want it. It's another case of the car being smarter than the owner wishes it were...

Frank

[webcontrol]

I have 16000 miles on my car, I never see EV+, I think that is only for cars with satellite receiver of some kind, maybe optional GPS.

I saw so many times that I have plenty of battery, the car engine started.  I am sure with Energi model, the engine will not kick in so often.  With same motor and same engine, why Energi can run on batter alone, but hybrid can not even when its EV battery is almost full?

[Tdefny]

All C-Max models have a GPS built in, but only some have the optional NAV system. You need to activate EV+ or it won't come on. Yours must be off or you should have seen it by now. Mine has always worked fine, so I don't remember how to activate it, but it is definitely in the manual.