400 mile trip at 70 - 80 MPH

[KAL Cmax]

So I was driving all over New England this weekend doing 75 most the time do to time constraints. With the car loaded with 4 adults and gear at about 300 lbs I averaged 42 mpg.

 

Easy math 400 miles @ 40 mpg * $4.00 gallon = $40 in gas.

 

If we had taken the Murano @ 20 mpg = $80 in gas.

 

I saved $40 in gas with the AC on since it's in the 90s this holiday weekend. Everyone was comfortable for the trip too.

 

I couldn't be happier with the mpg, although going that fast was killing me on the inside, watching my tank average of 49 mpg dropping down once we hit the highway.

 

He pics for one leg of the trip Laconia to Boston using Google tracks.

Edited July 7, 2013 by KAL Cmax

[salsaguy]

enjoy the car and be glad you're lifetime avg is within 1 mpg of the as tested 47 mpg from the EPA number.

some would kill to be getting over 45 mpg.

[Jus-A-CMax]

So I was driving all over New England this weekend doing 75 most the time do to time constraints. With the car loaded with 4 adults and gear at about 300 lbs I averaged 42 mpg.

 

Easy math 400 miles @ 40 mpg * $4.00 gallon = $40 in gas.

 

If we had taken the Murano @ 20 mpg = $80 in gas.

 

I saved $40 in gas with the AC on since it's in the 90s this holiday weekend. Everyone was comfortable for the trip too.

 

I couldn't be happier with the mpg, although going that fast was killing me on the inside, watching my tank average of 49 mpg dropping down once we hit the highway.

 

Let me re-write this in the "Jus" world...$80 - $40 = $40. $40 divided by $5 = 8.

 

So therefore, Jus can have 8 beers from the savings.

 

8 beers, thats a lot of savings there..woohoo... :happy feet:

 

Or if I was to put into my golf world, then thats, 1 Friday mid-day rate 18 hole round at the LA City and 1 beer & 1 soda plus tip afterwards... :)

 

Told ya I was a simple :shift:

Edited July 7, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[Jmonty]

Proof?

[Recumpence]

Proof?

He took a picture of the dashboard. If you divide the mile by hours on the trip you get the average MPG. This trip time reflects sitting at lights and going through towns also. So, you must take that into account.

 

I can attest to the fact that, on smooth roads without too much wind, 70 to 75mph will net 41 to 42mpg on a stock C-Max.

 

Matt

[ScubaDadMiami]

If we had taken the Murano @ 20 mpg = $80 in gas.

That's about what I averaged in my Murano, and what I guesstimated for moving to the C-MAX.  Basically, I figured that I would cut my gas bill down by 50 percent.  So far, tt is working out to do even better than I had hoped it would!

[mbedit]

I actually just got back from taking my C-Max on an ~1700 mile trip. Lots of of interstate, and I was always driving at or close to the speed limit, typically between 60 and 70 MPH.

 

Overall I think I got about 43.8, due largely because of some really bad rain on mountain roads for a good spell, but the bulk of my trip was doing better than 44... as seen here on one fill up.

 

[KAL Cmax]

He took a picture of the dashboard. If you divide the mile by hours on the trip you get the average MPG. This trip time reflects sitting at lights and going through towns also. So, you must take that into account.

 

I can attest to the fact that, on smooth roads without too much wind, 70 to 75mph will net 41 to 42mpg on a stock C-Max.

 

Matt

I Did post the pictures after he mentioned proof.

[Jmonty]

I can attest to the fact that, on smooth roads without too much wind, 70 to 75mph will net 41 to 42mpg on a stock C-Max.

 

Matt

Haven't seen it yet. But to me that means on a flat highway with minimal stops and a constant speed.

[KAL Cmax]

Here is a trip with changing elevation, ECO cruise was set at 68 mph. Trip was from Boston Massachusetts to York Maine.

[MacGyver]

Have verified that 75mph is the optimum CVT gear ratio for max MPG;

 

 

 

This is actually a bit low, I was seeing 59mpg, fluctuating a lot, this is what was on the screen when I took the screenshot. This is from Torque, an android app (free/paid) that reads data from a bluetooth OBD from amazon ($15 including shipping).

 

Originally bought to determine best speeds for certain conditions; there's no instant digital readout accurate to the tenths on the C-max, hopefully something they'll rectify with an update, the engineers were surprised that there wasn't one ( i.e. instant digital readout / actual NUMBERS vs. hard to read / imprecise bar graph) when I spoke with them at the owner/engineer meeting...

Edited October 16, 2013 by MacGyver

[mrobinso8]

MacGiver,  Could you give a little more detail on the Bluetooth ABD from Amazon so that if someone wishes to buy one he would get the correct one.  Thanks

[Jus-A-CMax]

Have verified that 75mph is the optimum CVT gear ratio for max MPG;

 

 

Screenshot_2013-10-15-21-05-00.jpg

 

This is actually a bit low, I was seeing 59mpg, fluctuating a lot, this is what was on the screen when I took the screenshot. This is from Torque, an android app (free/paid) that reads data from a bluetooth OBD from amazon ($15 including shipping).

 

Originally bought to determine best speeds for certain conditions; there's no instant digital readout accurate to the tenths on the C-max, hopefully something they'll rectify with an update, the engineers were surprised that there wasn't one when I spoke with them at the owner/engineer meeting...

 

Thanks MacGyver!  What was the SOC at the time? I am guessing there is negative split mode in play here?

 

Also, can someone confirm this - 59MPG@73.3 (75) mph? If thats proven, that is ASTOUNDING :)

Edited October 16, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[MacGyver]

MacGiver,  Could you give a little more detail on the Bluetooth ABD from Amazon so that if someone wishes to buy one he would get the correct one.  Thanks

 

Yeah, Torque itself has the recommendation; make sure you buy from a supplier with a good return policy if you order the cheaper ones... just search OBD on amazon, you'll get lots of hits.

 

Here's a link to the super cheapo one I bought, I've had no problems at all with it; http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0090ZJPMK/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ($9 INCLUDING SHIPPING!!)

 

I guess ELM is the cheapo brand, but I got a good one, as I said, zero problems with it, it pairs easily and stays paired, doesn't interfere with other bluetooth stuff, have had car bluetooth, bluetooth  headset and bluetooth keyboard all paired at once and it works fine/smooth.

 

As you can see from screenshot, it shows 0 engine load (ICE) while showing 1910revs (EV motor I guess) so Torque is not quite able to show EV motor load, hopefully that will be added in an update, meanwhile, the "engage" screen shows a bar graph of EV motor load...

 

I've also used torque to determine that 70-73mph is best speed for uphill grade, 20-23mpg vs. 65mpg=17-19mpg.

[MacGyver]

Thanks MacGyver!  What was the SOC at the time? I am guessing there is negative split mode in play here?

 

Also, can someone confirm this - 59MPG@73.3 (75) mph? If thats proven, that is ASTOUNDING :)

 

While the "high charge" theory is interesting, I don't think it's true, I've asked the engineers about it multiple times, with no positive responses, ranging from "I'm not aware of it" to "probably just ideal conditions" i.e., flat or slight downhill, maybe plus high SOC, maybe plus tailwind, light load/less than half tank=low weight, etc., so I don't pay a lot of attention to SOC- more to a light foot, and accelerating efficiently (briskly but not too fast) up to speed and re-engaging EV- I'll pay more attention in future and report back.

[MacGyver]

Thanks MacGyver!  What was the SOC at the time? I am guessing there is negative split mode in play here?

 

Also, can someone confirm this - 59MPG@73.3 (75) mph? If thats proven, that is ASTOUNDING :)

 

It is pretty great- I've been seeing it for a while now, so I'm not so astounded- I've gotten 59mpg to malibu from torrance, and 54mpg on return trip, and it makes sense that the higher the gearing, the greater the mpg, up to the point of wind resistance overcoming peak efficiency of ICE engine anyways, and I've easily achieved 70+mpg (72mpg best) by resetting average counter while on freeway just to see peak highway efficiency- most efficient is during traffic so that battery comes into play, moving forward under battery power then regenning that power during braking...

[MacGyver]

Have verified that 75mph is the optimum CVT gear ratio for max MPG;

 

Oh, and the two differing speeds in the top right are OBD speed and GPS speed, I forget which is which

Edited October 16, 2013 by MacGyver

[fotomoto]

Is it April 1st all ready?  :detective:

 

MacGyver, please explain for us exactly what you're doing to achieve this incredible hwy mpg figures besides monitoring with the torque/obd app.   :headscratch:

 

Thx

Edited October 16, 2013 by fotomoto

[MacGyver]

Is it April 1st all ready?  :detective:

 

MacGyver, please explain for us exactly what you're doing to achieve this incredible hwy mpg figures besides monitoring with the torque/obd app.   :headscratch:

 

Thx

 

Well, when I first got my C-max, it was my first hybrid, so I was driving it as I thought I "should", which meant I was driving slowly, trying to accelerate as slowly as possible, stay in EV mode as much as possible, draft behind semis, etc., but then I was only getting like 30 mpg instant OR average driving 55mph on the freeway, and lots of people were pissed off too, so I sped up and saw that my mpg got better and better the faster I went.

 

In order to get instant DIGITAL (vs imprecise bar graph) I decided to go full geek and get the OBD so I could monitor more precisely what speeds / driving styles / drafting / braking / etc., resulted in the best mpg. My first challenge was to determine what was the optimum speed to go up the looong uphill freeway to tujunga where my sister in law lives, since I hated to see 15-17mpg displayed as I went up this hill for 20-30 minutes, so I was determined to figure out this puzzle.

 

I tested all the way up to 90mph, but past 73mph, mpg drops off. I also tested at 45-55-65, which was lower than 75mph(22mpg) at about 15-17mpg.

 

This started the germ of an idea that maybe the C-max might be more efficient at even higher speeds, it has pleasantly surprised me again and again with the amount of power it has, that it gets better mpg at 65 than 55, despite the long held, mythbuster tested and proven 55mph wind resistance barrier, so I began testing, when I was able to safely in Los Angeles, higher and higher speeds on level road, and lo and behold, the optimum gearing for mpg is 75mph, which garners easily 40-42mpg on up to 60mpg, depending on slight downslopes, battery charge, wind, car load, etc.

 

I've also had the update, so the car will even charge the battery such that it will cruise in EV at 75mph. C-max is AWESOME!

 

I usually would never speed, the ticket and insurance are too expensive, plus, as anyone with a GPS who has tried to drive faster to decrease their ETA has found, it doesn't really work to shorten your travel time to any large degree, certainly not enough to make it worth the risk, so usually will set my eco-cruise at 65.5 (as indicated by torque) or as high as 67 or 68, that being a relatively safe speed that will not get me pulled over, and be fast enough to (mostly) keep people behind me happy. But it's nice to know that I can keep up with traffic no matter what it's doing and not be hurting myself in the process re mpg. 

 

I've also got a clinometer app (by Ramil Matira, BrainLaboratories free in play market, you can even set a Ford Escape as the car that tilts, nice) on my phone so I can see if I'm traveling on even a slight 1% downhill or uphill or whatever, the problem is, it doesn't run in the background, and even on my note 2 I can't have both of them running at the same time, so I will have to memorize the grade on the parts of the freeway I use the most, then check mpg on those stretches at speed via the torque app afterwards and puzzle out the timing/location/mpg later.

 

To answer your question, I'm not really "doing" anything to achieve this high mpg, aside from maybe a quick liftoff of the "gas" pedal to engage EV. I will still draft semis, (sanely, from a distance of at least 3-4 car lengths ) but if traffic allows, I will shoot right past them, since they tend to slow down to discourage that sort of thing, and drive too slow anyways, especially now that I am basically getting better mpg without them while getting to drive like a bat outta hell!

[Jus-A-CMax]

Sound like you're driving more in the high 60s than 75mph. I was thinking @ 75mph, you're a candidate for a ticket especially on the 395, you can get away with it on mostly the freeways around LA, CHP is not that concerned but they are picky on the 395.

 

Questions: So you don't "blip" the pedal to kick it out of full EV into the negative split mode?

What was the optimal driving strategy/speed on the uphill thru to Tujunga. I got to deal with that and I know GaryM and I have to deal with the moutains on the 14 to Lancaster? Right now its keeping right and a 2 bar burn on the steep stuff. I found burning up at 65mph on those steep grade wasted a ton of gas for not much return in time (based on the driving up the Sherwin grade north of Bishop - same load, and temps). No Scangauge though, this is using the Trip to gauge the fuel used.

[MacGyver]

Sound like you're driving more in the high 60s than 75mph. I was thinking @ 75mph, you're a candidate for a ticket especially on the 395, you can get away with it on mostly the freeways around LA, CHP is not that concerned but they are picky on the 395.

 

Questions: So you don't "blip" the pedal to kick it out of full EV into the negative split mode?

What was the optimal driving strategy/speed on the uphill thru to Tujunga. I got to deal with that and I know GaryM and I have to deal with the moutains on the 14 to Lancaster? Right now its keeping right and a 2 bar burn on the steep stuff. I found burning up at 65mph on those steep grade wasted a ton of gas for not much return in time (based on the driving up the Sherwin grade north of Bishop - same load, and temps). No Scangauge though, this is using the Trip to gauge the fuel used.

 

Yeah, I typically keep my speed to a dull roar, so 65-70mph, I'm all too aware (from extensive use of GPS) that speeding doesn't get you there fast enough for it to be worth it, you might save 30 seconds on a 30 minute trip.

 

I DO "blip" the pedal to kick it out of full EV into the negative split mode on a regular basis, but the 40-60mpg is in ICE mode (maybe with some EV assist), torque shows EV instant mpg at Torque's max=255mpg, with the higher mpg coming with high battery, level ground, etc.

 

For the Tujunga grade, optimal speeds are 70-73mph, I've tested it over and over again, thinking maybe I was coloring the results with personal bias, wanting the C-max to be even more incredible, and it has consistently come to the same result.

 

Other % grades may have (and probably do have) different optimum speeds, (but given the number of times my C-max has surprised me, I'm not willing to assume anything until I can actually test it) if you download clinometer and tell me the grade, I'll test that when I can, but the OBD is cheap and easily "installed" so you will probably want to get one for yourself as into it as you are, plus with lots of us testing with them, maybe we can nail down a lot of stuff with the C-max that seems so anomalous.

 

And when I say "install" the OBD, it's as easy as plugging it into the slot just under the dash a little to the left of the steering wheel. Literally anyone who can plug a cord into a wall can do it.

 

My philosophy about exploring the C-max's capabilities are to try things that are counter-intuitive, since so many people have had so much trouble achieving the mpg claimed by Ford, perhaps they SHOULDN'T drive it like a prius or a "normal" hybrid.

 

I fully expect the next software update to include a digital readout of instant mpg- Ford really shot themselves in the foot by not including that, because it's been the most important tool to see what driving styles work! I'm given to understand that it IS available on other Ford cars, so its omission on the C-max is an error.

 

In the meantime, get at least the free torque app (I believe it's for both iphone and android) and the $9 OBD2- it'll be the best $9 you've spent in a while, and torque is customizable, there are maybe 100 or something readouts you can select and move around, bar graph, digital, dial, etc. I would still use torque even if they restore the digital instant mpg display.

 

Another suggestion (that they seemed really excited about and promised to work on) I had was to not "count" mpg when the car is on for a/c or heating but in park, as I spend a lot of time in my car doing paperwork, phone calls, etc., just sitting, which drags my lifetime average down at least 3-4mpg..

Edited October 17, 2013 by MacGyver

[Jus-A-CMax]

Excellent Macgyver...thanks YOU for all your valuable input.... :rockon:

 

One place for the 75 is the stretch from Lancaster to Mojave...thats 80mph no worries  :)

 

GaryM drives the 14 far more than me...I hope he reads this thread and can provide the slope degree.

[fotomoto]

Well, when I first got my C-max, it was my first hybrid, so I was driving it as I thought I "should", which meant I was driving slowly, trying to accelerate as slowly as possible, stay in EV mode as much as possible, draft behind semis, etc., but then I was only getting like 30 mpg instant OR average driving 55mph on the freeway, 

 

Hmm, when I follow most of those guidelines along with P&G, I get in the 60's.   I, OTOH, feel that most owners who are getting poor mpg's are first time hybrid buyers who really don't know the hybrid "tricks" and are just driving it like a traditional ICE vehicle and not letting it get into EV as much as possible when off the highway.

  

 

 the optimum gearing for mpg is 75mph, which garners easily 40-42mpg on up to 60mpg, depending on slight downslopes, battery charge, wind, car load, etc.

 

You're now putting a lot of qualifiers in here.  You're previous post seem to indicate just driving 75mph was the ideal speed for mpg due to gearing.  

 

  

 so usually will set my eco-cruise at 65.5 (as indicated by torque) or as high as 67 or 68, that being a relatively safe speed that will not get me pulled over, and be fast enough to (mostly) keep people behind me happy.

 

The 65-68 speed range in eco-cruise been the consensus of the forum for the best possible hwy mpg.

 

Your original post in this thread of getting 59mpg @ 75mph really, really caught my interest as that is the typical legal highway speed here in Texas (rural or interstate) and I thought you might have found some new technique. <shruggs>  Setting the eco-cruise at 75 per on level ground with the a/c on nets me about 38mpg.  I'm hoping with the oncoming cooler weather (sans a/c)  that it will bump that up a few to the low to mid 40s.  

Edited October 18, 2013 by fotomoto

[Jus-A-CMax]

fotomoto - you got a scangauge, see if you can replicate McGyver's testing?

[fotomoto]

fotomoto - you got a scangauge, see if you can replicate McGyver's testing?

 

That's it.  I don't have a clue what exactly he's doing or even what he says he's doing.  Is it this (bold emphasis mine)?  "I DO "blip" the pedal to kick it out of full EV into the negative split mode on a regular basis, but the 40-60mpg is in ICE mode (maybe with some EV assist), torque shows EV instant mpg at Torque's max=255mpg, with the higher mpg coming with high battery, level ground, etc."

 

His qualifier, "maybe with some EV assist"  sounds like "high ICE" aka "negative split mode" or as the prius folks call it "blending".   What do you think?

Edited October 18, 2013 by fotomoto