Winter Weather Driving

[joeyd]

I am seriously considering purchasing a Ford C-Max Hybrid SEL. I currently have a Crysler PT Cruiser witch I really like except for winter driving on icy, snow covered, slushy roads.  The PT has no traction when accelerating from a stop or when braking at a stop sign.  Makes me feel unsafe when driving on drifting snow covered highways. 

 

I would appriciate it if anyone could advise me as to how the C-Max Hybrid handles/performs under these conditions.

 

THANKS for any and all assistance.

 

joeyd

[armoredsaint]

just from my limited 6500 miles of hard driving. i don't feel confident in the Michelin Energy tires during wet roads, i've turned aggressively and it slides, the tires are geared more for fuel economy instead of traction - but that's just my opinion.

 

i live in Ohio like you also and this coming winter i am a little nervous, but my company will allow me to have snow specific tires and i usually swap out to winter tires anyways on my personal vehicles - i love blizzaks and X-Ice

 

here's review of the tires and go under Survey, it rates poor in winter: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Energy+Saver+A%2FS&partnum=25VR7ESAS&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2013&autoModel=C-MAX%20Hybrid&autoModClar=SEL

 

                                                                           6.3   5.3    5.7
 

 

Edited August 13, 2013 by armoredsaint

[RaPieR]

I am seriously considering purchasing a Ford C-Max Hybrid SEL. I currently have a Crysler PT Cruiser witch I really like except for winter driving on icy, snow covered, slushy roads.  The PT has no traction when accelerating from a stop or when braking at a stop sign.  Makes me feel unsafe when driving on drifting snow covered highways. 

 

I would appriciate it if anyone could advise me as to how the C-Max Hybrid handles/performs under these conditions.

 

THANKS for any and all assistance.

 

joeyd

Did you use winter tires with your PT cruiser? Since C-MAX is FWD like the PT cruiser they probably won't be too different in terms of handling in snow. That said I've had the C-MAX with winter tires last year and had no problems. This included driving through a blizzard in Collingwood Ontario .

[Adair]

I live in Michigan and got my C-MAX in late November last year. Granted, it wasn't the worst winter we've had, but I had no problems driving in the snow, before and after plowing. And believe me, I was sweatin' it.....I had come from a Jeep Liberty w/4wd.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Adair

[nsteblay]

I live in Minnesota and drove my C-Max all last winter.  I thought it handled fine in the snow, certainly no worse than other FWD cars I've had.  It is a fairly heavy car and does have stability and traction control.  If you want the best experience you need a AWD car.  

[obob]

I am seriously considering purchasing a Ford C-Max Hybrid SEL. I currently have a Crysler PT Cruiser witch I really like except for winter driving on icy, snow covered, slushy roads.  The PT has no traction when accelerating from a stop or when braking at a stop sign.  Makes me feel unsafe when driving on drifting snow covered highways. 

 

I would appriciate it if anyone could advise me as to how the C-Max Hybrid handles/performs under these conditions.

 

THANKS for any and all assistance.

 

joeyd

Does your PT Cruiser have traction control ?  

I would think the C-Max having traction control would help.

 

My sense without snow tires, or even better snow tires with studs, cars don't do well in snow and for those few days when it snows, I am careful.

 

In my previous car I carried tire cables in case I got stuck but never used them.  They should fit the C-Max but snow chains are not recommended in the C-Max. (If I were stuck I would consider putting them on for a short time but in no way am I recommending that for another person for the manual does not recommend them probably because something could get messed up.)  If I lived in a snowy area I would be tempted to get snow tires mounted on wheels for the front for the winter months, though tire people recommend getting snow tires for all four wheels.  

 

For those considering snows, via tirerack, *** Unless a TPMS triggering tool is purchased, new TPMS sensors must be registered to the vehicle at the manufacturer's dealership. ***

Edited August 13, 2013 by obob

[Adair]

Read Jus-a-CMax's Mammoth posts. He regularly took his C-MAX on skiing trips to Mammoth mountain in CA. He has some sorta chains for the worst of it.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1500-jus-a-cmax-to-mammoth-mountain-and-back/

Edited August 13, 2013 by Adair

[Jus-A-CMax]

Cable chains are the way to go - DO NOTE - there is little clearance in those wheel wells so putting them on are OK but taking them off...ha..the fun begins.Steering is super but as the snow gets heavier, the cables are needed - this is not a super snow car, its a regular car. Snow tires work best as well if you're gonna live in those conditions. Look up Don Hak, he's a poster here from AK with an Ice Storm CMax, no problems for him and hes got snow tires at the worse of the times - I think he even runs the 16" wheels as well...go do a search.

 

I think the biggest issue was a forever ICE warmup and there are 2 ways to fix this: latest Ford up update and ptjones grill covers. The grill covers apparently do really work well in the extreme cold from what I was able to gather.

[fbov]

...i don't feel confident in the Michelin Energy tires during wet roads, i've turned aggressively and it slides, ...i usually swap out to winter tires anyways on my personal vehicles - i love blizzaks and X-Ice

 

...My sense without snow tires, or even better snow tires with studs, cars don't do well in snow and for those few days when it snows, I am careful....

I'm quite impressed that the first response hit the nail on the head, and wasn't the only one to do so.

 

It's not the car that matters in the snow, it's the tires on the car.

 

My only qualification is living in Rochester, NY since 1973, driving RWD almost exclusively, from an RX7 through a half dozen Volvos (240, 740, 940). Most folks know about Buffalo because they periodically get 10' snowfalls. We're the other extreme - it snows nearly every day - but the record snowfall is only about 3' and that took a week. We get an inch every morning, and lots of re-frozen snow-melt during the evening commute.

 

I have found that conventional tires with good rubber compounds and aggressive tread designs work well with FWD when new. My wife and daughter are both running Goodyear Assurance ComforTred Touring tires in FWD cars with good results. I've been driving the last of what was once 3 Volvos with spare wheels for the snows, so it was Continental ExtremeWinterContact XL for me that last few winters. Given the C-max will be our winter trip vehicle, there's a closeout set of X-Ice Xi2 waiting for me at Tire Rack...

 

BTW, if your car only sees snow when you take it there, Jus has a great solution for temporary need applications.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

PS Remember that a driver who's in tune with their car and can feel the subtle variations in traction will be able to drive a poorly-shod vehicle better than a ham-footed pedal-masher with chains. Hybrid throttle skills have other applications as well!

Edited August 13, 2013 by fbov

[Fits2at]

I live in Indiana and I got my CMax at the beginning of December. Late December and early January we had a couple of big snows here where they actually closed my place of employment 2 different times.  The following day, I went out and got around town without any issues.  I used the same tires that came on it. I went through 2' slush piles where the plow trucks didn't plow very well. I can only remember slipping one time. Granted I am not an agressive driver, especially in snow and I was careful at accelerating from a complete stop.

[JohnnOhio]

I'm in Northern Ohio and got my max at the tail end of winter. I live in the country and could not get it out of the driveway. I'll leave maxie home and drive my 4x4 truck when it snows this winter

[armoredsaint]

I live in Indiana and I got my CMax at the beginning of December. Late December and early January we had a couple of big snows here where they actually closed my place of employment 2 different times.  The following day, I went out and got around town without any issues.  I used the same tires that came on it. I went through 2' slush piles where the plow trucks didn't plow very well. I can only remember slipping one time. Granted I am not an agressive driver, especially in snow and I was careful at accelerating from a complete stop.

 

 

24" of slush? i would like to see that, the whole front of the C-Max would be covered.

[Fits2at]

Yeah it was a heavy wet snow and going through the slush piles you could hear it hit the underneath side of it but since it was slush it didn't hurt anything. I was really surprised at the traction I had.

[fbov]

... I'll leave maxie home and drive my 4x4 truck when it snows this winter

That's cheating! (Unless you live near Ashtabula, then it's survival gear.)

 

An important part of comparison is "compared to what?" If you normally drive a 4x4, your opinions about winter driving will be different from most of us. Remember the old VW ad: "What car does the plow guy drive to work?"

 

Have fun,

Frank

Edited August 13, 2013 by fbov

[BobJustBob]

I live in southeastern Pennsylvania.  I bought my C-Max in late November of last year, so I drove it throughout the winter.  We had a pretty mild winter, with only three or four snowfalls that amounted to much, 3" - 4" each.  My C-Max performed fine in those conditions.  My previous vehicle had AWD (a Hyundai Santa Fe), so I was very conservative the first couple of times I took the C-Max out in the snow.  If I lived in an area that normally gets a lot of snow in the winter, I would get snow tires for the winter.

[donhak]

My car arrived in January.  Anchorage gets lots of snow and ice.  I usually run snow tires from October to early April, so my first purchase with a car is usually a second set of rims and snow tires.  I put Blizzaks on 16-inch rims and had absolutely no problems with up to a foot of snow.  As with any two-wheel drive car, deep rutted snow can be a problem with low ground clearance, but the C-Max handled as well or better than my previous Saturn L-200, a larger car.  The stock tires also handled better than a Camry with studded tires before I got the snow tires put on the rims, but I did not test them on ice where I would expect the low rolling resistance tires to lose traction quickly.  I have grown to prefer the studless Blizzaks and Michelin Ice X's over studded tires because of better performance after even just a little wear on the tire.  You just don't want to run them in the summer with the softer tire compound.

[robertiv]

I had the opportunity to drive several times in snow last Spring here is southeast Wisconsin. I had no problems and I thought the car handled just as well as the Saturn VUE that I replaced. 

[bemyax]

I've been wondering how the stability and traction control works since this is my first vehicle with the feature. Overnight we had a little freezing rain followed by just under an inch of snow. A neighboring church had a large blacktop parking lot ready for me this morning. There I made a couple of tight circles at about 20 MPH. Not up against the steering stops, and just a steady speed. The stability indicator light was blinking, but I couldn't get a sense of which corner was braking. I did experience a small amount of plow, or oversteer, but did not sense that I had lost guidance control. 

 

I wanted to get out of there in case someone called the cops, otherwise I would have tried a backwards doughnut to test understeer. 

 

I did do some firm braking and acceleration on the city streets and was impressed by the lack of yaw. I could break the front end loose in acceleration. But this was at low speeds and not trying to duplicate a panic-type situation. 

 

Snow tires: don't ask me. I haven't owned any snow tires since my '63 Ford Falcon! (Loved that car. A Deluxe, it had the optional seat belts.) 

[JohnnOhio]

I am seriously considering purchasing a Ford C-Max Hybrid SEL. I currently have a Crysler PT Cruiser witch I really like except for winter driving on icy, snow covered, slushy roads.  The PT has no traction when accelerating from a stop or when braking at a stop sign.  Makes me feel unsafe when driving on drifting snow covered highways. 

 

I would appriciate it if anyone could advise me as to how the C-Max Hybrid handles/performs under these conditions.

 

THANKS for any and all assistance.

 

joeyd

 

 

I picked mine up at the end of last winter so not much driving in the snow. I agree that the stock tires are geared more toward gas mileage than traction. I personnally will drive my truck on snow days and my C Max the rest of the time. I live on a state highway so my driveway gets plowed shut on snowy days by DOT. I can tractor it out before I leave only to have it plowed shut again when I get home. Don't want to damage my car trying to get back into my driveway so I just drive my truck.

[robert]

Just got Maxx in November and have driven it in light/moderate snow/ice. In my opinion it is a better balanced fwd vehicle as powertrain in front is balanced by battery weight in rear, right over the rear wheels where it should be. No problems with handling or startup on slippery surfaces, but like any other vehicle you can "overdrive it". 

I'm thinking that reducing tire pressure to 35 from 38 during winter months might help a bit with traction, giving up a  very small amount of mpg. I will try it and report back. It was 9 degrees here this morning and car performed very well, plenty of heat/defrost .

[fbov]

With snow tires, pressure and traction go hand in hand. For added traction, increase your tire pressures.

 

I look at it this way: higher pressure presses the tread deeper into the snow resulting in a better bite. Modern snow tire treads are designed with many narrow grooves called "sipes" across tread blocks. When the tread block is compressed, these grooves open, gripping the snow. Reduce tire pressure and you reduce forces opening these sipes.

 

Then there's geometry; narrower contact patch is better two ways. It reduces the amount of snow that the tire pushes to the side, and it increases the amount of longitudinal force (accel/braking) available from the tire. Lower your tire pressure and the tire grows wider at ground level - not advantageous at all.

 

By the way, I'm running X-ice 3's at 51 psi, and in highway driving, I see no change in mileage from the OEM Energy Saver/AS at 51 psi. Michelin did a good RR job here!

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[Spitinuri]

I was a little concerned about the winter handling of the C-Max.  So far it has performed very well and much better than my 04 Prius. 

[Spitinuri]

We just had a nice heavy snow. I drove from Columbia, MO to St. Louis yesterday. There was about 4 inches on the ground when I started. By the time I reached St. Louis about 10 inches.

 

The highways were plowed but covered. I had no issues getting around. When I got off the highway the snow was much deeper. I almost got stuck. Then I remembered that I could turn off traction control. Once I did that I got around fine.

 

As stated before my Prius would never have made the trip. I couldn't have even made it out of my neighborhood.

 

Nicely done Ford!

[obob]

We just had a nice heavy snow. I drove from Columbia, MO to St. Louis yesterday. There was about 4 inches on the ground when I started. By the time I reached St. Louis about 10 inches.

 

The highways were plowed but covered. I had no issues getting around. When I got off the highway the snow was much deeper. I almost got stuck. Then I remembered that I could turn off traction control. Once I did that I got around fine.

 

As stated before my Prius would never have made the trip. I couldn't have even made it out of my neighborhood.

 

Nicely done Ford!

 

Why was it better without traction control ?

[fbov]

Traction control uses the brakes to prevent wheel spin. There are two cases where current implementations are lacking.

 

In deep snow, your tire has some traction because it can "bite" the packed snow underneath, but you're constantly driving uphill... up the little hill of snow in front of the tire. If the tire spins, it removes part of the hill rather than climbing it. That's probabaly what happened in Spitinuri's case. Deep snow is also one of the "ABS loses" scenarios. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

 

On slick surfaces, there is no snow in the way, but you need all the grip you can get. Tires transfer forces by slipping. Tires have the greatest slip, and so generate the most force, just before they let go (see Figure 6.7). The problem is that you lose traction very quickly after it peaks. Traction "control" limits maximum traction by not allowing you to get close to the peak, for fear of exceeding it. That's how traction control can leave you stuck on a flat-but-slippery situation.

 

The snow plow contractors all pull the ABS fuse or disable a wheel sensor in order to plow snow; the brakes self-destruct otherwise. Check the F-150 forum...

 

Have fun,

Frank