Why hybrids often deliver lower mpg than advertised

[darrelld]

Many drivers of gasoline-electric hybrids never see their real-world fuel economy match the numbers on the EPA window sticker. Because of hybrids' complex powertrains and other factors, the gap between real-world fuel economy and the window label is often greater than it is with vehicles powered by conventional gasoline or diesel engines.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130816/OEM05/130819927/why-hybrids-often-deliver-lower-mpg-than-advertised

[Arty]

So why ot publish real world mileage numbers?

[oldloboy]

"My average mileage jumped sharply after I viewed several youtube videos where experts demonstrated the pulse and glide technique of driving hybrids.  Perhaps most hybrid drivers are not taking advantage of this technology?  If your driving habits keep the gas engine is on nearly all the time, then you can expect thirty-some mph.  I initially had this false idea for conserving gas and perhaps many other drivers do too."  

 

Amen.  I started with a new C Max Hybrid and the initial hwy mileage, in Dec 2012, was 37 mpg.  Then I watched U-Tube videos and learned to drive so that the gas engine shuts off a half minute or so every few miles on the hwy.  My mileage has jumped to 52.x during spring and summer.  One really has to discard the old conserving habits.  This pays off in city driving if you are not in rush hour traffic.

Edited November 9, 2013 by oldloboy

[plus 3 golfer]

...

 

It is quite likely that the EPA test allows every advantage for the tested vehicle:  a warmed-up vehicle operating in a moderate temp and driven by a skilled hybrid driver.

 

The EPA tests schedules are run on dynos and drivers must follow the test schedules within certain tolerances.  The EPA promulgated 5 test cycles in the rules that supposedly define typical driving patterns including city, highway, high speed, cold temperature and AC use such that the data from the 5 cycles can be plugged into equations to compute the EPA FE numbers.  

 

But there are exceptions in the rules such that a manufacturer does not have to run 5 cycles on each model.  In fact, Ford chose not run any of the EPA tests on the C-MAX Hybrid as permitted by the rules and instead ran 2 of the 5 cycles on the Fusion Hybrid and used that data for the C-Max.  Hence, the C-Max and Fusion had an original EPA ratings of 47/47/47. The EPA then secured a C-Max Hybrid  and presumably ran all 5 cycles and got the lower FE numbers as detailed in the PDF below.

EPA Revised FE statement.pdf

Edited August 24, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[Jmonty]

Oh wow, the MPG changes are with the software update. That's even worse.

 

People were getting well over the rated value in city driving previously. That's surprising to me.

[Robert Burke]

Please get your head out of the 'gas world' and into the 'EV world'.   You will see better milage or

should I say, better MPGe hybrid economy.....remember, it's a HYBRID with a gas engine backup.

[Robert Burke]

ALL of C-max's are hybrids, yet Ford only assigns MPGe to their energi model.  ??  Not even

Ford, who make the hybrids, use MPGe for the other models.  There is no difference between

them, they all have engines and batteries.  This is how screwed up they are.  They should really be 

advertising C-max's hybrid MPGe milage and stop treating it like a gas engine only car.  It would

get 60-70+ MPGe for fuel economy....Not even Toyota Prius does this.  People buy a hybrid

and they treat it like a gas engine car.  ???  Just how stupid is that? 

[Robert Burke]

Remember, the only difference between Energi and other C-max's, the number of batteries and a plug in port to charge

them with  That's all.  If you want an extra 400 pounds of batteries to carry around, sucking down your gas to keep them

charged, to get greater EV miles, then go for it.  

 

Don't forget to use the see-saw method for better gas milage. 

[Jus-A-CMax]

Gotcha...thxs.

 

Now...erh...can someone explain to me what :airquote: see-saw is...I know nothing about getting better milage. Help!  :twister:

Edited November 6, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[C-MaxSea]

It's the new P & G - got to start them young, ......... er is that old.  ;)

 

 

It all works.  Welcome Robert - EV rules here.  Enjoy the ride & forum.  Which C-Max are you driving?

Edited November 6, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[DaveofDurham]

ALL of C-max's are hybrids, yet Ford only assigns MPGe to their energi model.  ??  Not even

Ford, who make the hybrids, use MPGe for the other models.  There is no difference between

them, they all have engines and batteries.  This is how screwed up they are.  They should really be 

advertising C-max's hybrid MPGe milage and stop treating it like a gas engine only car.  It would

get 60-70+ MPGe for fuel economy....Not even Toyota Prius does this.  People buy a hybrid

and they treat it like a gas engine car.  ???  Just how stupid is that? 

 

Robert -

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not sure if you are driving a plug-in (Energi) or a non-plug-in.  I have a non-plug-in SEL.  I reset my trip 1 odometer every time I get gas.  See photo below.

 

My car has traveled 299.1 total miles since the last time I got gas.   The 159.4 EV miles are included in the 299.1 total miles.  I have used 6.31 gallons of fuel since my last fill-up.  My fuel economy since my last fill up is 299.1/6.31 = 47.3 mpg.

 

[i wish I had gone 458.5 (299.1 + 159.4 = 458.5) miles on those 6.31 gallons of fuel for an mpg of 458.5/6.31 = 72.7, but alas I have only gone 299.1 miles on those 6.31 gallons.  I double checked this by comparing my current odometer reading of 18266.4 to the odometer reading last time I got gas which was 17967.3, a difference of 299.1 miles]

 

 

Edited November 6, 2013 by DaveofDurham

[drdiesel1]

The Energi has 1 battery. It's a 7.6 kWh battery. It's actually 300 pounds heavier than the hybrids

1.4 kWh battery.

 

Having a 7.6 kWh battery allows the Energi to run for an advertised 21 miles of EV only on a charge.

I regularly get 25 to 28 miles of EV mileage. It all depends on how you use it. With 26 miles of

pure EV mode, I very rarely buy gas anymore. My last tank went almost 7 weeks @ 1035 miles.

 

I refueled and it took 11.708 gallons. 1035 divided by 11.708 ='s 88.40 mpg. My electric bill

for the car was under 40 bucks. In hybrid mode alone, I can get 54 MPG with the Energi.

 

I don't travel with passengers, so the extra 300 lbs of battery isn't a big deal, IMO. I also run

my tires @ 51 psi. The extra weight is only noticed on take off. It's an added bonus on downhills

and regen braking.

 

I don't see it as a burden. I can often regen back a pure EV battery charge of

anywhere from 2 to 7 miles on some of our longer downhill grades. That would otherwise be wasted in

the hybrid with the small 1.4 kWh battery pack. I bought the Energi over the Hybrid just for the larger

battery and plug-in advantage. Until you test an Energi, you won't really understand the advantages.

[Robert Burke]

I own a C-max SEL hybrid 2013.

 

Please tell me how you add mile on gas, with miles battery, to get your MPGe?  

The reading on trip, MPG+EV should equal your total milage?  If that is

true, then dividing by gallons used, should = MPGe?   Where is Ford

going wrong?  

 

Ok ?The see-saw method of driving to save on fuel and use your batteries more often...

 

Fill up your tank, get on a level straight away, say 30+ and engage cruise control @ 55mph.

When the 'stank' icon is more than half way about the center mark on your gas guage,

back off on your cruise control by 2 mph.  Use negative button on cruise control.

 

This will kick in your EV driving and batteries will take over.   

 

Now, when the 0-60 indicator goes down to zero, indicating car is now using gas, INCREASE cruise by 2 mph, 

back up to 55mph.   

 

Then repeat procedure...  Sure, you have to keep an eye on your 'stank' but it becomes easy after a while.  

 

See-saw,,,,down to 53mph to go on battery, back up to 55mph to go back to gas and recharge batteries.   Simple.

[Robert Burke]

I own a C-max SEL hybrid 2013.

 

Please tell me how you add miles on gas, with miles on battery, to get your MPGe?  

 

The reading on trip, MPG+EV should equal your total milage?  If that is

true, then dividing by gallons used, should = MPGe?  

 

Where is Ford going wrong?  Are those figures lying?  I agree, odometer should be the same!! 

 

Ok ?The 'CEE-SAW' method of driving to save on fuel and use your batteries more often...

 

Fill up your tank, get on a level straight away, say 30+ and engage cruise control @ 55mph.

When the 'etank' icon is more than half way above the center mark on your gas guage,

back off on your cruise control by -2 mph.  Use negative button on cruise control.

 

This will kick in your EV driving and batteries will take over.   

 

Now, when the ( Engage) 0-60 indicator goes down to zero, indicating car is now using gas, INCREASE cruise by +2 mph, back up to 55mph.   

 

Then repeat procedure...  Sure, you have to keep an eye on your 'etank' but it becomes easy after a while.  

Edited November 7, 2013 by Robert Burke

[DaveofDurham]

 

I own a C-max SEL hybrid 2013.

 

Please tell me how you add miles on gas, with miles on battery, to get your MPGe?  

 

The reading on trip, MPG+EV should equal your total milage?  If that is

true, then dividing by gallons used, should = MPGe?  

 

Where is Ford going wrong?  Are those figures lying?  I agree, odometer should be the same!!

 

For the C-Max, MPGe is only applicable to/meaningful for the Energi. 

[Robert Burke]

What happened to my last post?  Did I get censored?  Democracy at work.

[Robert Burke]

Well, I'm out of here...I don't like censorship for a simple word, like HELL.   Other countries are trying to

restrict freedom of speech rights and as a VFW member, I'm trying to keep it.   

 

BYE!

 

#########

 

 

dr burke

Edited November 7, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax
remove swear word

[DaveofDurham]

What happened to my last post?  Did I get censored?  Democracy at work.

 

Are you perhaps looking for a post you made to the thread titled  "It's MPGe folks, not MPG for a hybrid!" ?

 

You have posts there at 7:10pm and 7:15PM.

[DaveofDurham]

Well, I'm out of here...I don't like censorship for a simple word, like HELL.   Other countries are trying to

restrict freedom of speech rights and as a VFW member, I'm trying to keep it.   

 

BYE!

 

########

.

 

dr burke

 

Well, I'm out of here...I don't like censorship for a simple word, like HELL.   Other countries are trying to

restrict freedom of speech rights and as a VFW member, I'm trying to keep it.   

 

BYE!

 

######//

 

 

dr burke

 

Chill out dude.  You are in the wrong thread.  Your 7:15pm message in the thread titled "It's MPGe folks, not MPG for a hybrid!" has

h-e-double hockey sticks in it and it is still there. 

Edited November 7, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax
remove swear word

[Jus-A-CMax]

Robert Burke - Cut out the cussing,  no one censored you till you cussed out.You have been warned.

[oldloboy]

My average mileage jumped sharply after I viewed several youtube videos where experts demonstrated the pulse and glide technique of driving hybrids.  Perhaps most hybrid drivers are not taking advantage of this technology?  If your driving habits keep the gas engine is on nearly all the time, then you can expect thirty-some mph.  I initially had this false idea for conserving gas and perhaps many other drivers do too.  

 

It is quite likely that the EPA test allows every advantage for the tested vehicle:  a warmed-up vehicle operating in a moderate temp and driven by a skilled hybrid driver.

Amen.  I had the same experience:   37 mph with the car (cmax hybrid) when I had less than one thousand miles on it.  Then after watching U-Tube videos, and Spring arriving, around 46-48 mph.  During summer fall, driving on hilly roads and not faster than 60 mph, I'm seeing 52 mpg.

When I wish to concentrate on driving, I keep the motor off for  a half minute or so every five miles or so on the highway.  In town mileage has always been terrific.

[oldloboy]

Please get your head out of the 'gas world' and into the 'EV world'.   You will see better milage or

should I say, better MPGe hybrid economy.....remember, it's a HYBRID with a gas engine backup.

Nope.  I own a C Max Hybrid.  It has a sizable gas engine with a small battery backup system.  The battery capacity is 1.5 KWHour.  But, lithium batteries don't like to be discharged less than 25% or charged more than 75% of capacity (in order to stretch their life).  So, we are driving with a .75 KWH battery pack.  That is 1 horsepower for an hour, or 40 horsepower for one and a half minutes.  Yep, I'm driving a gas-powered car with battery back-up.

I'm loving it too because I can get 50+ mpg on hwy trips that have a few hills and allow me to drive at 60 mph or less. As many testimonials on this site state, if you work the car so that the engine shuts off for, say, half a minute every few miles, you will see ~45 mpg.  My hwy trick, in cruise-control mode, is to check the battery charge and if it is near the top, push the accelerator to speed up a couple of mph.  Then I release the accelerator and the power level falls into the blue zone and the engine kicks off.  Of course, I do this only if I'm not going up a hill.  And, like many of you, I'm using the Empower display to see where the blue range is.