C-MAX Fuel Mileage. What are you getting?

[RachelnLa]

Tell me more.... I thought ev was any driving at speeds under 45 and above that it was all gas?

[StoBro2]

I've only had my C-Max for a couple of days, but I've seen EV mode when traveling up to 60 mph. The slightest uphill incline and the gas engine kicks in, but once you get over that hill it goes right back into EV mode.

[C-MaxJaxon]

Tell me more.... I thought ev was any driving at speeds under 45 and above that it was all gas?

 

I've seen mine in EV mode at up to 63-64 MPH when on a flat or downhill. This is from page 178 of the Owners Guide:

 

The gas engine automatically starts and stops to provide power when it’s needed and to save fuel when it’s not. While coasting at low speeds, coming to a stop, or standing, the gas engine normally shuts down and the vehicle operates in electric-only mode. Conditions that may cause the engine to start up or remain running include:

• considerable vehicle acceleration

• vehicle speed above 60 mph (96 km/h) For C-MAX Energi vehicles, you can drive up to 85 mph (137 km/h) in EV mode.

• ascending a hill

• charge level of high voltage battery is low

• very high or low outside temperature (to provide system cooling or heating) For C-MAX Energi vehicles, climate control demands by passengers do not directly cause the engine to run. This only occurs when the high voltage battery charge is low.

• engine not warm enough to provide passenger requested cabin temperature

[RachelnLa]

Thanks! I am still learning. Appreciate it.

[RaPieR]

Completed my first fill up today. Averaged 42.8MPG It is a lot easier to meet/exceed the EPA ratings in slower speed city driving (25 - 45MPH). This included driving with my girlfriend who's still learning how to drive and often averaged 36MPG with stabby throttle and braking inputs in short distance city driving.

[rkk]

Is anyone else getting lower fuel mileage at say 62 than at 70?

 

What is happening is that when I am going 62, the car is switching between EV and gas. When it switches over to gas, the instantaneous MPG goes down to about 20. Whereas when I am going 70, the gas is getting 40 MPG. The amount of EV driving can't compensate for the low fuel mileage at 62.

 

Also, I have about 5k miles on my C-Max and am getting about 38MPG total. Tiny bit disappointed, but I am in sales and this is awesome compared to what I was getting with my last car.

 

I have seen the exact same thing.. It was a warmer day and while driving 67 mph I had gotten the indicated mileage(the computer is high by 1-2mpg) for the trip to just over 48 mpg. At this speed I had a stretch showing around 60 mpg. Then the speed limit dropped so I slowed down to 57 and my mileage dropped along with my speed to 45 mpg for the trip. It would have kept going down but I got off the freeway.Just like you it would kick into EV mode and when the battery was depleted the engine would kick on and the mileage would drop to 20 mpg or so. I think with a software change they can better balance when the gas or electric or both motors work to improve the highway mileage. Otherwise this isn't a 47 mpg highway car. I have 3000 miles on mine now and have been averaging 41.7 calculated. I have been working hard to get that. I come from a Civic Hybrid that was in the mid-upper 40's mpg without trying even though it is only rated at 42 combined so for me so far the C-MAX mileage is very dissappointing. Other than that though I like it better than the Civic.

 

You might find this interesting.

 

http://wot.motortren...ead-288501.html

Edited November 8, 2012 by rkk

[darrelld]

 

I agree, I am starting to think 41-42mpg will end up being my average. If it gets better than that, it won't have anything to do with the car breaking in, it will be a change in my driving habits. At least among the people I know, Toyota drivers (Prius and Camry Hybrid) seem to be getting at least as good or better than EPA mpg, but it seems to be a struggle for me to get within reach of the EPA numbers on the C-max. OTOH I don't think I'd be happy with a Prius.

 

I believe the C-Max horsepower tends to cause less than EPA rated economy. When you drive a car without power even under full throttle the engine doesn't waste much fuel. FE is porportional to mass x linear acceleration = kinetic energy.

A vehicle such as the Prius is incapable of generating much linear acceleration so fuel economy is more reproducable and achievable.

 

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=306809

[RaPieR]

Just finished a 255 mile drive to Toronto from Detroit. Car hovered at close to 40MPG and the trip display says 38.9MPG. I did notice though that the instant MPG seemed to improve when the battery charge was almost completely full, enough to hit the 47MPG rating but would drop as soon as the battery depleted to maybe 3/4th of full charge and restart battery charging.

 

Forgot to add this trip was competed with Hankook iPike winter tires: 21560R16.

Edited November 10, 2012 by RaPieR

[Recumpence]

A few thoughts here;

 

First, I have no problem what-so-ever staying well above the rated 47mpg. That being said, I do mostly town to town driving with about 30% highway. Most driving for me is about 45mph.

 

Second, we need to stop comparing this car to a much smaller car. This thing is actually quite large compared to other high mileage cars. I cannot believe the mileage of this thing for its size and weight.

 

Third, as was stated a number of times, this thing has a large amount of surplus horsepower. This power equates to much lower mileage if it is dipped into. I love the fact that I can really have some fun with this thing (good power and wonderful handling), while still getting nearly 40mpg even though I am harping on it!

 

Lastly, this car really shines in town and town to town as I drive it.

 

The one thing I would say is, the 47mpg highway rating must have been at 55mph (this is a highway speed afterall). If I were to rate this car, I would give it a 48mpg in town rating and 44 highway. This would give a better idea to those buying the car of what it will deliver in real life use.

 

Oh, one last thing (bear in mind, I am a very analytical person);

 

I have found some days the mileage is not very good (maybe in the low to mid 40s), while other days it is INSANELY HIGH! I have seen 60mpg for relatively extended drives (over 10 miles) and 100+ mile days in the low 50s per gallon. I am not sure what the difference is other than maybe the weather. But, I do not use the climate control much because it forces the engine to run. I prefer the heated seat.

 

Matt

Edited November 10, 2012 by Recumpence

[rkk]

I don't think it is a matter of comparing the C-MAX to smaller cars, it is a matter of comparing the C-MAX to what Ford claims for this car. They advertise heavily that it gets better mileage to the Prius V when in real life the opposite appears to be the case. They advertise 47 mpg highway and so far it's not even close based on my own results, every review I have read and the cars listed on fuelly.com and the epa mileage site. Yes, over 47 in the city isn't a problem and I agree it is a great car, but it is a great 40-42 mpg car not 47 mpg like they advertise. By the way, I don't know if you are just using the computer for the mileage but checked against actual gas used vs miles driven the computer is usually 1-2 mpg too high.

 

Oh, and I have seen some fairly wide variances in indicated mileage when driving the driving the same route. I thought it was due to temperature but yesterday it was fairly cold and it was showing above 50 mpg in a stretch that normally shows about 40. No idea why, the battery level was about the same as always.

Edited November 10, 2012 by rkk

[Recumpence]

I agree and I disagree.

 

First, I did not make the comparison to smaller cars, that was made by others here and I was objecting to that.

 

Second, it does, indeed, get better mileage than the "V" in town. Highway may be another matter. I have to do some long distance interstate driving to say for sure. However, my personal experience shows my car is still better than the V on the highway and WAY better in town. That being said, I am light on the throttle (though I do drive the speed limit).

 

Oh, one other thing I noticed is that the ECO cruise does a pretty good job, but I override it in certain situations. One good example of that is; when climbing a hill, the cruise may kick the engine in because it does not know where the top of the hill is. However, if the hill is not very high, I kcik off the cruise and let the speed drop 2 or 3mph to crest the hill in EV mode. This does not affect my time to my destination, but it does make a difference in mileage.

 

I am an experienced hyper-miler and the C-Max is very sensitive to these techniques. That being said, my wife still gets 46+mpg with the car and she "Just drives it". I just got back from another 10 mile drive that was 60.9mpg. This included 5 miles over 50mph.

 

I am not trying to be arguementative. I do take issue with some of the claims. Maybe some clarity should be made regarding the car's "Actual" mileage under normal driving and the "Potential" mileage if care is taken. I have no problem seeing well over 50mpg for 100+ miles at a time and 60mpg for 10mile drives here and there under ideal circumstances.

 

Oh, lastly, the first drive of the day is always much lower mileage. This is because the engine needs to run a bit to get the oil moving and the transmission warmed up. This morning I saw 39.5 mpg for the first 8 mile drive. After that, I saw 60.9mpg on the [longer] drive home. So, for those who drive 10 miles, then stop for a couple hours, then drive 10 miles home, YES, they will see 39mpg average. That innital warm up hurts the mileage. That may be one major part of this discussion that has not been taken into account. For, me, I drive at least 100 miles per day. So, that innital 39 to 42mpg trip warming everything up averages in and somewhat disappers by the end of the day.

 

Also, yes, I know the indicated is about 1 mile too high. No biggie. That makes little difference at 50mpg. :)

 

Matt

Edited November 10, 2012 by Recumpence

[rkk]

I drive quite a bit on the freeway with a good chunk of it at 65 mph and no matter how carefull I am whether using Eco Cruise or not I can't get to 47 mpg. I am in sales so I can drive quite a bit as well and I know what you mean about the first drive.My commute to work is 30 miles each way. I wouldn't describe myself as a hypermiler but I to take care to drive as efficienlty as possible, gliding as much as possible, coasting to stops etc. I have had 60+ mpg city drives but they can't make up for my highway drives. My comment on the Prius V was based on the reviews of both that I read and the results on Fuelly.com although granted there are very few C-Max's there so far. When I was test driving I didn't drive the V but I did the regular Prius and on a 30 mile mostly highway drive I got an indicated 53 mpg. In my Civic Hybrid which is rated at 45 mpg on the highway if I try 50 mpg is easy. I guess what I am saying is that for the average driver driving normally this isn't a 47 mpg car if there is a significant amount of highway driving and I also think it is harder to achieve the EPA rating on the C-MAX than it is on many other vehicles.

 

Again, I am not saying it is a bad car. In fact I think it is a very good one. I just think Ford stretched too far in claiming 47 mpg for both city and highway.

[RaPieR]

I was curious about the EPA test and just quickly browsed their test methods and it looks obvious now how the C-Max was rated for 47MPG on highway. Their highway fuel economy test is done at an average speed of 48MPH and a max speed of 60MPH.

 

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/2006/December/Day-27/a9749.pdf

[REC]

The actual mileage on the C-Max is very good, especially considering the size, roominess, and horsepower of the vehicle.

 

None the less, I think Ford made a mistake pushing the 47/47 mpg claims, especially for the highway number (at speeds greater than about 65mph the car doesn't operate as a hybrid - just as a fuel efficient gas engine).

 

I think that they should have marketed car with 45/40 mpg. It would still be a great selling point with that mileage (especially with the other great features of the car), and would also be more comparable to what a wide range of drivers are getting (and I would put myself in that group). Drivers would be happy to get the claimed milage and, if you are able to get higher mileage, then you will be just that much happier.

Edited November 11, 2012 by REC

[rkk]

Exactly right.

[C-MaxJaxon]

My average dropped down in the 46 range and has climbed back to 47. I expect it to drop again as the weather gets colder. I had my first trip average (that I noticed anyway) over 70 mpg. I've been forgetting to check the average lately after I park. The newness and excitement of watching the trip average is wearing off and I expect I'll start driving it like a normal car soon.

[Recumpence]

The newness and excitement of watching the trip average is wearing off and I expect I'll start driving it like a normal car soon.

 

Yup, I know what you mean.

 

The first week I was so thrilled that I watched the MPG gauge a lot. The second week, I forgot to look at it much oft the time as I have gotten used to the car. Now, in my thrid week, I am back to watching it again. However, now it is to test theories I have regarding my mileage and seeing how I drive versus the ECO cruise.

 

I had gotten used to a digital MPG gauge on my van (I installed that on my own a while back). So, I was already in the habit of paying attention of my mileage.

 

I must say, this car is very good at maximizing mileage on its own. I have watched the gauge when my wife drives and the engine kicks on and off at about the timing I would like to see it happen.

 

Ford got the software right.

 

Now if we can get them to fix all the freaking infotainment bugs.............

 

Matt

[kechair]

After I had to mash the gas pedal yesterday needing to get to somewhere fast and having my lead footed relatives take turns test driving the cmax, I have decided to drive 'normal' on this tank ie. Pretend that I'm in my Mini, and see what the low water mark might be on fuel economy for this car.

 

Re: Ford, yeah its all about setting expectations. If you say 47 and most drivers actually get lower, People do lose sight of the fact that this is still a very fuel efficient car for its size. Some bad taste in mouth lingers.

[MikeB]

People, a reminder: Ford didn't pick the 47/47mpg number out of a hat, it was given to them by the EPA test. The EPA test has it's flaws, including the fact that it doesn't actually involve high speed driving on the road, but it's the exact same test for everybody. It's done on a dynomometer under carefully controlled conditions, and gives very reproducable numbers. They may not match your driving, but they are a valid point of comparison across brands and models. Ford is going to advertise the numbers from that test because those are the numbers they are allowed to use. Don't blame Ford if you don't get the numbers provided by the EPA, blame the EPA.

 

That said, the EPA adjusted their methods a few years back, in order to better match their resutls with real-world driving experiences. My current car, a VW Jetta TDI, actually gets better than the EPA numbers, but that's probably the nature of a diesel rather than any particular aspect of the testing. You can provide feedback to the EPA and tell them to refine their testing methods again, this feedback is more effective if you can show long-term numbers for your vehicle to use as a reference point.

[rfruth]

Sounds like the car is capable of 47 / 47 but it may be spring time (when it starts to warm up & the car and the driver(s) are broken in before most see it

[REC]

To echo the above comment, I think that there are two break-in periods. The first is for the car/engine, and the second is for the driver.

 

Indeed, I find that leaving a couple minutes earlier than usual for my destination has the greatest positive impact on my mileage (and then I do get 45+ mpg).

[CrystalSC]

Why would a car need a break-in period? I don't know how that works.

[JAZ]

For those of you too young to know about an automobile's break-in period: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/saturday-mechanic-blog/how-to-break-in-a-new-car. Living near a big city, 'break-in' has a couple of different meanings, but the included link is the one you need.

[skwcrj]

I been reading this forum with great interest for a couple of reasons:

 

1) We are shopping for another new car to replace one of our other older cars.

2) I have owned a 2012 Prius V for a year now.

 

One thing to consider as you comment on your mpg experiences is that short trip mentions are meaningless. Tank averages is where it counts. I have seen many short trips (10-15 miles) in my V average 65+ mpg. But, that doesn't mean much since unless you drive the route every day and get stellar mpg's both ways.

 

EPA estimates

 

Per the EPA website:

 

"Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory."

 

So, Ford does the test as outlined by the EPA and submit the results to the EPA. I'm sure that Ford stuck to the guidelines of the test but it doesn't mean that they can't program the car to excel specifically for this test. There is nothing illegal about that. The ultimate disclaimer ("actual results will vary") is printed in small type under each rating.

 

The Prius V comparison:

 

The C-Max Hybrid fits between the Prius liftback and the Prius V. That is, the C-Max is bigger than the liftback but smaller than the V. However it is 374 lbs heavier than the V and close almost 600 lbs heavier than the liftback. I think that the extra weight and larger engine maybe the cause of the lower mpg in real highway mpg.

 

My Prius V is my first Prius and there was a learning curve. The V's EPA mpg ratings are 44 city/ 40 highway. My daily drive is 33 miles each way. Most of it highway (30 miles). My real life numbers are more like 40 city/ 55 highway. I typically average: 53-54 mpg on the roundtrip with no traffic in summer (70's), 50 mpg now that the weather is cooler (40's). With the V it's really easy to exceed the EPA estimates (by about 10 mpg), by just driving between 60-65 mph on the highway. We did a 2000 mile trip in August and got an average of 48 mpg with A/C use and big elevation gains (Seattle to Yellowstone and back - seal level to 7000 ft). The V excels on the highway because of two big things: 1) less power 2) final transmission gear ratio.

 

Indicated vs Calculated MPG

 

The Prius also tends to be optimistic by about 3-5%. To be accurate you have to fill them up consistently every time (ie. fill until the nozzle clicks and no more). Even an extra 1/4 of a gallon will skew your mpg calculations.

 

I'm very interested to see how well the C-Max does as more drivers report real world mpg's. I think that at this stage most drivers are new to the unique hybrid learning curve. Just like the Prius, there will be some who "just drive" it and those who hypermile. I will continue to monitor how this evolves over the next 6 months to a year as we make our decision.

 

Either way, I think that competition will help improve all of these hybrids in the long run.

 

Big kudos to Ford for putting out a great contender out there!

 

I almost forgot.... Please sign up on Fuelly.com and post your fillups there. It helps everyone. If you are interested, look me up under the 2012 Prius V as "skwcrj".

[Recumpence]

I did some gas engine only running today (65+mph highway driving) and averaged 43mpg with the engine running the entire time. As mentioned earlier, once the battery charge gets near the top of the charge, the mpg with engine running really climbs.

 

As the weather have changed, my mpg has dropped a touch (about 2mpg).

 

I completely agree that you must calculate mpg based on real world useage and full tank calculations. On my last fillup, my math showed 46.4mpg for that entire tank. The previous two fillups were lower than that. Every fillup improves about 2mpg.

 

I can say this for certain, my C-Max loves 35 to 40mph. That is where the highest mpg is found. It is not hard to exceed 55mpg at that speed range and 60mpg is not impossible. Highway mileage is where the mileage suffers.

 

Oh, today I had to floor it twice. It is really nice having so much power on tap when needed. That being said, it is also easy to dip into that and ruin your hopes of beating your previous high mpg. :D

 

Matt