C-MAX Fuel Mileage. What are you getting?

[salprint]

My milage is 47+. I have over 1500 miles on it now.

[ptjones]

Recumpence with further checking you are right,I couldn't get my fingers in the grill to see if the shutters moved. I manually closed the bottom shutter and the top one closed too. Mine is an SEL but I'm sure their all the same. I did determine that the shutters only close when the car is on. There is a humming sound when the sutters close when the car is turned on. Scientifically I'm trying to determine why my TOCGO mod is improving my MPG by 1-2 mpg. Most of my driving is between 45-50mph so aero improvements will have little effect on MPG. It would be a different at 70-75mph. People have commented about MPG going down because of cold weather which is also the case with Escape Hybrids. This morning I drove to work 2.5mi and the shutters were still closed when I got to work getting 32mpg about 1/3 time EV. One possible scenario is that the sutters close in EV mode and open in engine mode. TOCGO mod would make engine run warmer and improve MPG.

I will do somemore testing and see if I can figure this out.

Paul

[stranger267]

Have it (CMAX SE) for 2 weeks, with 1000 miles now. Average mpg is 35 and it does not imrpove much - it is about 28 mpg on short 6 miles morning trips, and about 36 on long 100+ highway trips. Sometimes got 40 - 41 in city if car is warm (travelled before this trip).

 

I don't think that it is driving technique as there is nothing to improve on highway - you select the speed, click CRUISE, and go. And it shows stable 36 - 37 mpg on 70 mph.

 

Car had 26 mph on computer when purchased (with 60 miles total).

 

I started to think that these low milage reports has nothing with drive technique. More likely these are different cars or different setting - what I mean are

- tires - if car has low drag tires as Prius it makes much better mileage

- tire pressure - higher pressure improve milage

- oil - synthetic oil is expected to improve mpg

- maybe some engine tuning...

 

It all looks as some cars has good mpg and some not. As I can't image, how my car can reach numbers close to 42 (at least) - I can count 2 mpg to California-s gas and maybe 2 more to the hills, roads and so on, so I am ok if it shos 42 - 43 mpg - but for now it stick on 35 - 36 and do not move forward anymoe (it moved first 500 - 600 miles).

 

(Everything else is almost perfect - I'd like to have fog lights in SE and map ligh inside, but these are small cons remembering that SE is just base model). But mileage - this is mystery; they definitely demonstrated 47 to EPA< so why regular cars (some) shows only 35 - 38?

Edited November 24, 2012 by stranger267

[Seymour_Bears]

3100+ miles on the C-Max now; six weeks old. Mileage computed at the gas pump:

 

Highway: 2304 miles, 36.8 MPG (all of this is Interstate, mostly between 70 and 75)

 

City: 812 miles, 39.4 MPG

 

Overall: 37.5 MPG

 

"Lifetime Summary" gives me 38.9 MPG (a little higher than actual, as expected), 810 EV miles, and 125 regen miles. The primary driver of the car is in the mode of driving it like any other car - training is in progress...

[Recumpence]

Hey Paul,

 

I am looking into some serious aero mods like wheel discs, lowered front air dam, full lower body pan, and grille block panels like you are doing. I have been told at Ecomodder.com than these mods should be good for around 5mpg on the highway.

 

As for my personal mileage, I am at 3,100 miles right now and my average is well over 47mpg at this point. My lifetime mileage (including early poor mileage from various people driving it hard) is 46.7mpg. My mileage is nearly identical calculated at the pump versus the dash estimate. I think this improves with time. When I am on the freeway at 65mph, I see low 40s (42 to 43mpg).

 

Matt

[Laurel]

Just out of curiosity, how old are you drivers with less than advertised mileage? Wondering if age is a factor in driving techniques? I am ducking now waiting for rotten tomatoes to be thrown at me LOL.

[Seymour_Bears]

62. No rotten tomatoes, but a bit of a smile. My job is teaching young Navy officers to drive ships. Granted, a ship is not a hybrid car, but it has its own challenges. Haven't had any of the students - with their youthful senses - out do me with handling the ships.

[Seymour_Bears]

Stranger267, I can understand the 36 MPG on long highway trips, if you're on the interstate doing 70+ MPH. But the 28 MPG (assume that is local driving) on the short morning trips is odd. These figures - 36 highway and 28 city -are about what I'd expect from a Focus with a six speed auto. It's almost like the gas engine is doing all the work, which I'm sure is not the case. How many EV miles is the Lifetime Summary showing? I'm getting about 25% of my total miles as EV.

[Laurel]

62. No rotten tomatoes, but a bit of a smile. My job is teaching young Navy officers to drive ships. Granted, a ship is not a hybrid car, but it has its own challenges. Haven't had any of the students - with their youthful senses - out do me with handling the ships.

I saw Top Gun so you aren't convincing me that your inner Mario Andretti isn't alive and well LOL. You have a very interesting job.

[ScooterS]

62. No rotten tomatoes, but a bit of a smile. My job is teaching young Navy officers to drive ships. Granted, a ship is not a hybrid car, but it has its own challenges. Haven't had any of the students - with their youthful senses - out do me with handling the ships.

 

Is this one of your training films?

 

[Seymour_Bears]

Too funny. We try to avoid that...

[Seymour_Bears]

Laurel, I'll give Mario another shot next week. Saying goodbye to the C-Max and heading to Japan Saturday morning, to do three weeks of training.

[stranger267]

Stranger267, I can understand the 36 MPG on long highway trips, if you're on the interstate doing 70+ MPH. But the 28 MPG (assume that is local driving) on the short morning trips is odd. These figures - 36 highway and 28 city -are about what I'd expect from a Focus with a six speed auto. It's almost like the gas engine is doing all the work, which I'm sure is not the case. How many EV miles is the Lifetime Summary showing? I'm getting about 25% of my total miles as EV.

 

Morning trip is 1 miles street, 4 miles highway, .6 miles street. Shows 26 - 28, with .1 / .2 gal used on 5.6 miles.

 

I can't understand 37 on freeways. Some people (especially those who have earlier car-s) reports 42 - 44; EPA reports 47. The ONLY explanation which I have is that these are different cars, tires, oil, software or anything else. 70 mph is absolutely common freeway speed; but even if I keep 65, it does not change much.

 

Problem is that reports are SO different that it can't be explained by different driving habits and even by different terrains. It can be explained only by something wrong in the newer cars. I dont think that FORD frauded EPA when they tested and got 47. I suspect that first cars had 47, then something was changed on the factory and recent cars have 37.

 

(I have about 200 EV miles out of 1000, approx).

Edited November 24, 2012 by stranger267

[Seymour_Bears]

Stranger267, what I've heard about the EPA highway tests is that they are a series of different tests at different speeds, and only one of these tests is at normal interstate speeds. At 75 MPH all the battery is doing is assisting in small ways, such as for accelleration, and for hills. But the gas engine must be carrying nearly all the load. Again, with my limited understanding, at interstate speeds we're at 75 on cruise control, in a low drag vehicle with an efficient engine and low rolling resistance tires (and other features... and a heavy battery), so something shy of 40 MPH does not surprise me. Something well above 40 for 75 MPH on the Interstate would surprise me, but again, I'm no expert.

[valkraider]

Stranger267, what I've heard about the EPA highway tests is that they are a series of different tests at different speeds, and only one of these tests is at normal interstate speeds.

 

The post 2008 EPA tests include a highway test, and a high speed test. Remember, these tests are done on a dynometer using 100% gasoline (no ethanol) with fair weather conditions - not on real highways.

 

The highway test basically slowly gets up to cruising speed and will go a little faster or slower, averaging 48mph with a peak of 60mph for something like 10 miles. The key point here is the 48mph average.

 

The high speed test focuses more on accelerating and decelerating. The test includes several rapid accelerations up to a peak of 80mph. This test also averages 48mph and is only about 10 miles or so.

 

Air resistence is a real bitch above 48mph.

 

I have posted more details in this forum...

[salprint]

As I've said...I am getting 47+. I did change my driving habits drastically. Coming out of a muscle car, it was very hard for me to do, but I did it. Even on the highway, I don't take it over the 62mph so the EV mode will kick in whenever it can. I just take my time..stay in the right lane mostly except to pass. On secondary roads I feather the gas pedal a lot, so the EV mode runs as much as possible. When I need to accelerate I do....I punch it, and then when I get up to the speed I need, I back off the gas until EV kicks in, and cruise in EV mode from there. So I don't understand why some of you are getting such poor milage, but I doubt very much that it has anything to do with a change at the factory. I believe its just poor driving habits. Please don't get offended, its just my opinion.

[StoBro2]

I just finished a 400 mile round trip that consisted almost entirely of interstate and rural 2-lane highways. I kept to within 5 mph of the posted speed limit (55 or 65 mph) for the entire trip. Despite my best efforts at keeping the demand for power as low as possible, my calculated mileage after filling the tank and running the numbers is 33.9 MPG. No large hills, in fact the terrain is as flat as a billiard table and the roads are as straight as a chalk line. No rain or snow. It was warm on the way out so the heat wasn't on. It was cold on the way back, so I did have the heat on for that half of the trip.

 

Why the poor fuel economy? It might have something to do with the sustained 35 MPH headwinds that I encountered on the entire trip. First they were coming out of the south, then a cold front passed overnight and they were blasting out of the north the next day.

 

Never underestimate the power of the wind.

[darrelld]

I just finished a 400 mile round trip that consisted almost entirely of interstate and rural 2-lane highways. I kept to within 5 mph of the posted speed limit (55 or 65 mph) for the entire trip. Despite my best efforts at keeping the demand for power as low as possible, my calculated mileage after filling the tank and running the numbers is 33.9 MPG. No large hills, in fact the terrain is as flat as a billiard table and the roads are as straight as a chalk line. No rain or snow. It was warm on the way out so the heat wasn't on. It was cold on the way back, so I did have the heat on for that half of the trip.

 

Why the poor fuel economy? It might have something to do with the sustained 35 MPH headwinds that I encountered on the entire trip. First they were coming out of the south, then a cold front passed overnight and they were blasting out of the north the next day.

 

Never underestimate the power of the wind.

 

So aggregating the headwind speed with your avg speed of say 60mph you were theoretically driving at 95mph give or take. 33mpg at those speeds is phenomenal.

Edited November 24, 2012 by darrelld

[stranger267]

EV mode on highways should not make sense _in theory_, as energy comes from the same ICE and ICE -> Wheels is more efficient then ICE -> Battery -> Wheels. So EV should not kick on at all on flat road. If EV mode shows more effieiency, then something wrong with transmission or something else, as it should not improve mileage (flat freeway only!).

 

I am more curious, why some people has consistent 42+ mpg (42 - 47 difference in inside 'driving habit' variations), while others shows consistent 33 - 37 mpg (on freeways).

 

PS. I don't know many places where we can drive 48 for a long. Most highways has streamline traffic on 55 - 75 mph, or has a lot of curves (hw 1 on the west). And more important, EPA uses the same tests for CMAX and PRIUS, so if CMAX shows 47 in ideal conditions and 40 in real PRIUS should do the same. But we do see the different - all PRIUSES are consistent with EPA and _SOME_ CMAXes (maybe drivers, maybe cars) are consistent and some are not.

 

If you read reports.. First tests show EPA 47 and records up to 60. 13 difference. Now people reports 37 and records up to 50, 13 difference. So it, again, looks as first CMAXes had 47 hw mileage and production ones now has 37.

 

Edited November 24, 2012 by stranger267

[Laurel]

erwhitham posted this today: "A factor not addressed here is weather conditions, especially heater use , which always affected my mpg with my Prius. On cold days with short drives, it was not unusual for me to get 27-29 mpg over most of the winter months. In spring without AC and on longer routes at 55mph I could be close to 47. However, averaging those conditions over a few months, I got used to less than thrilling mpgs. I was ok with this. Loved the Prius but was ready for a CMax with great options and a new style. The mileage I'm getting now is low 30's under similar driving conditions and heater use nearly every day lately. Because of a larger gas tank, I can get more miles before refilling."

 

Obviously there are numerous factors involved in mileage achieved. HIs Prius didn't meet EPA in the winter Maybe it is the same for you?

Stranger267 why wouldn't increased EV mode increase mileage? If you are using electricity versus gas, wouldn't your mileage improve? With our test drive, we took it on the freeway and when we stayed under 60 MPH the EV mode stayed on. A couple of the salesmen had taken the demo home on the weekend and drove on the freeway and commented that the car had not used any gas in the last two weeks. Are you meaning that because the regenerative braking isn't being used, then the engine has to come on more often --thus fuel consumption would increase on the freeway?

 

My C-Max should be here by Dec.3 and it was built Nov.8th--so it will be interesting to see what mileage I get as I will have a newer build.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Laurel

[stranger267]

Stranger267 why wouldn't increased EV mode increase mileage? If you are using electricity versus gas, wouldn't your mileage improve?

 

This is true, if electricity comes from the network (CMAX energy after charging) or breaking (so if we go downhills/uphills EV mode improve mileage). But when you ride the flat road, EV comes from gas engine and it is less efficient to use gas to charge the battery and then use battery to power EV mode, vs. directly use GAS to drive the wheels.

 

So EV mode is advantage in the city, on the uphills (if there are downhills) or on the quick accelerations (if you then slow down) and for the power burst (as engine works better on average power vs high power), but it is disadvantage on the flat road with constant cruise speed.

Edited November 25, 2012 by stranger267

[StoBro2]

It was always my understanding that hybrids were meant to address the most inefficient type of driving- constant accelerating and decelerating with frequent complete stops and a lot of time idling without moving. Out on the open road where none of that happens, a simpler more direct powertrain should be more efficient. I'm not sure that having the car constantly switch back and forth between charging the battery and then discharging it by operating the electric motor in tandem with the ICE nets any sort of overall mileage improvement in sustained highway driving. On the highway a hybrid carries around a lot of extra weight in the battery pack and the electrical equipment that a conventional car wouldn't have. In addition to the weight penalty, a tall hatchback like the C-Max has a large frontal area and I would imagine a rather high coefficient of drag. I don't know how or even if the EPA tests factor in aerodynamic drag in their tests.

 

Since the vast majority of my driving is on suburban streets and clogged highways, a hybrid makes sense for my type of driving. If I had a long daily commute on expressways where traffic flows faster than 50 mph or so, or I take 400 mile trips on a regular basis, I would drive a diesel.

[ptjones]

Stranger267: Check your odometer first with a GPS. You might be a getting 1 MPG better than you think. Mine is off by at least 1.5% which means I gained .5 mpg. Doesn't look like you are drafting on the hwy.The two 70 mi. trips I took averaged 50 mpg drafting between 55-75mph. Colder temps can really hurt your mpgs. Yesterday I made my usual 35 mi trip mostly 55 mph and averaged 49 mpg. This morning I did the same trip and got 41mpg with the only difference being about 20 degrees colder. I just filled up with 8 gals of No Ethanol 90 octane mid grade gas, we will see how that goes.

Edited November 28, 2012 by ptjones

[ptjones]

Diesel is $4 a gal here and Reg is $3.16. The economics don't work unless you make Biodiesel.

Edited November 28, 2012 by ptjones

[valkraider]

And more important, EPA uses the same tests for CMAX and PRIUS, so if CMAX shows 47 in ideal conditions and 40 in real PRIUS should do the same. But we do see the different - all PRIUSES are consistent with EPA and _SOME_ CMAXes (maybe drivers, maybe cars) are consistent and some are not.

 

First, not all Prius are consistent with EPA. I know many people with Prius who both exceed EPA numbers and fail to meet EPA numbers. Portland has a *ton* of Prius, I know a lot of people who drive them.

 

However it anecdotally seems that Prius is at least *more* consistent with EPA numbers than our early experience with C-Max.

 

I said this before, and will say it again. One of the biggest complaints about Prius is that it drives boring. Toyota has designed a programming which is tame but consistently fuel efficient.

 

Ford has advertised C-Max as the drivers' hybrid with a a sportier and more responsive system. So while we have people who beat the EPA numbers in their C-Max it looks like Ford *allows* people to drive more inefficiently if they want.

 

The difference may be entirely our own fault...