C-MAX Fuel Mileage. What are you getting?

[salprint]

 

 

Ford has advertised C-Max as the drivers' hybrid with a a sportier and more responsive system. So while we have people who beat the EPA numbers in their C-Max it looks like Ford *allows* people to drive more inefficiently if they want.

 

The difference may be entirely our own fault...

 

 

I agree

[Recumpence]

I have 3,100 miles on my C-Max as of today. I drive 125 miles per day for work. Some days are in town and some are highway (65mph). I have given much of my findings on this thread already. However, I want to point out a couple things that I have pretty much cemented in my brain as fact;

 

First, temperature makes a HUGE difference on Hybrids. I have friends with other hybrids who have the same issues. The cold temperature makes the engin run longer and sooner, and the air is more dense. This added density increases drag at highway speeds. Also (and I have yet to hear this addressed), battery efficiency drops when the temperature of the battery is cold. I have found that the EV range increases dramatically once the pack has been cycled a nubmer of times through normal driving.

 

Second, mileage depends on the area you are driving in. For example, I have found that more stop and go drops the mileage. Now, that may seem obvious, but there is a drastic difference. Remember, regen is not 100% return on your energy. A 100% braking score does not mean you got 100% of your energy back, it means you did not waste any energy as friction in braking. The generator, wiring, and inverter all lose power in the process of regen. So, stop and go kills range. Also, the C-Max seems particularly sensitive to elevation changes. I do not mean obvious hills, I mean gradual elevation changes over distance. Allow me to explain; I make a certain trip for work periodically. When I drive from my house to that location (abotu 12 miles distance), I typically see anywhere from 55 to over 60mpg for the entire trip. However, going home I see mid 40s (maybe 44mpg or so). There are no noticeable hills. But, there must be an elevation change between locations. I have noticed this on other trips as well.

 

Beyond that, I do not see why some people are getting such bad mileage. My lifetime average is 46.0mpg at this point. Heck, even in 25 to 30 degree temps today I have averaged nearly 45mpg on mine..... A few days ago when the weather was in the mid 50s, I had one day of 114 miles that was 51.1mpg and the next day of 126 miles of driving I saw 52.2mpg.

 

One last thing, I recommend a Scangauge. This is a cool instrument that allows you to monitor engine temp engine RPM, and other bits (some of which the C-Max already displays). I find it to help knowing when the heat is about to turn on the engine and other important bits of information. :~)

 

Matt

[darrelld]

 

 

I agree

 

I also agree.

[stranger267]

This all is true - small road grades makes a big difference, temperature play great role (all pilotes knows DA term - air is dense when cold and sparce when hot, it change drag and engine efficiency), wind and so on.

 

But what is EPA test? It is not 'hypereffective driving' test - when driving hypereffective, some people reported 60 mph in CMAX and got range of 1,000 miles for VW Passat TDI. EPA reports average mpg in good driving conditions. So cars should show 40 - 42 mpg for average driver in non ideal conditions, and not 33 - 35. Especially on freeway where nothing depends on the driver except speed and weather.

 

Regarding short trips in CMAX (not Energy) - they are not very efficient just becasue computer wants engine to be warm and so it runs it a few minutes - just enough to kill mileage on the 5 - 6 miles first in the day trip. So this low mileage on them is normal. Low (34 - 36) mileage on freeway on ECO cruise is not normal.

 

 

I do not see why some people are getting such bad mileage

 

I don't see too, except the theory that recent cars has some hidden defect (or feature, such as break-on oil which creates more traction? stock tires with extra drag?) which do not allow to get good mileage. I will test car on flat road on 55 mph, no wind, no traffic, warm California-s weather, tomorrow, but until now no any driving style could show better then 36 - 37 mpg on freeway (and 40 - 42 in the city on a very slow route). The mileage reports are TOO different to be explained by the driving habits (except maybe car software behaves so that it likes one stype and dislikes another...)

 

PS. Absolutely agree Max vs Prius - Prius is futuristic boring car, while MAX is fun to drive. Normal controls are plus, too /no joystik, buttons, parking breaks as in the truck, and so on/

 

I have 3,100 miles on my C-Max as of today. I drive 125 miles per day for work. Some days are in town and some are highway (65mph). I have given much of my findings on this thread already. However, I want to point out a couple things that I have pretty much cemented in my brain as fact;

 

...

 

 

[darrelld]

CNET just reviewed the C-Max for over 150 miles with a mix of city and highway averaging 45.1 mpg.

 

http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchback/2013-ford-c-max/4505-10867_7-35426711.html

[shaners]

My wife just took two 100 mile round trips in cold weather and very hilly terrain with her and my 2 daughters in the car. This was on 2-lane and 4-lane roads with speed limits varying from 55-65 MPH. There were also a few small towns along the route that had stop lights and stop signs. She averaged just under 40 MPG and the car has less than 500 miles on it. Under these consditions and the fact the car isn't broken in yet, I would consider this milage acceptable.

[Seymour_Bears]

Valkraider, thanks for the info on the EPA highway testing.

 

Your email sheds light on three areas where the real life highway MPG on the C-Max is going to tend to fall short of the EPA test results.

 

1. Done on the dynometer, so no air resistance to deal with.

2. Using 100% gasoline, vice the 10% blend I think most of us are using.

3. Average speed of 48 MPH, which is well within the battery threshold, and well below what most of us consider highway driving speeds.

[skwcrj]

Seymour,

 

Air resistance is dealt with according to the EPA website by:

 

In the laboratory, the vehicle's drive wheels are placed on a machine called a dynamometer that simulates the driving environment. The energy required to move the rollers can be adjusted to account for aerodynamic forces and the particular vehicle's weight.

 

For others,

 

Also, the 48 mph average speed is not that far off. Think about it... You don't leave your driveway at 60 mph and arrive at your work at 60 mph. Somewhere along the way, you do slow down for a few miles and even stop for a few minutes at a traffic light or two. At that point you are introducing some city mpg's that should help out your tank average.

 

Here is the description of the two EPA highway test :

Highway: Represents a mixture of rural and Interstate highway driving with a warmed-up engine, typical of longer trips in free-flowing traffic.

 

High Speed: Represents city and highway driving at higher speeds with more aggressive acceleration and braking.

 

Ford manage to get 47 mpg during these two test including agressive acceleration (8.46 mph/sec max or a 0-60 of 7 secs).

 

Here's a few observations based on information from some of you here and notes on the Fuelly.com pages:

 

1) The C-Max Hybrid seems to get around 26-32 mpg at highway speeds based on EV/Total miles driven per tank. The numbers are fairly consistent across several owners and several cars with long trips during that tank.

2) The EV miles seem to the save the C-Max from looking even worse. But, the majority of those on Fuelly.com are at or below 40 mpg average.

3) The average for all 19 cars (as of 11/25/12) is 39.2 mpg. Ugh. That's not good!

4) Hypermiling should give you results way above the EPA mpg's (+10). It shouldn't take hypermiling to get the EPA estimates.

 

Having said all that, the sample size is still small. There are only 19 2913 C-Max Hybrids on Fuelly.com vs 207 2012 Prius V's.

 

Keep posting fillups on Fuelly and post your EV miles per tank.

Edited November 26, 2012 by skwcrj

[Laurel]

I would think that the average of 39.2 mpg gallon is actually good. These are all new cars that haven't been broken in yet. My impression from reading this forum is that the C-Max owners are generally pleased and only a small minority are coming in with poor mileage. I don't understand the importance of reporting fillups on Fuelly??

[darrelld]

Seymour,

 

Air resistance is dealt with according to the EPA website by:

 

 

 

For others,

 

Also, the 48 mph average speed is not that far off. Think about it... You don't leave your driveway at 60 mph and arrive at your work at 60 mph. Somewhere along the way, you do slow down for a few miles and even stop for a few minutes at a traffic light or two. At that point you are introducing some city mpg's that should help out your tank average.

 

Here is the description of the two EPA highway test :

 

 

Ford manage to get 47 mpg during these two test including agressive acceleration (8.46 mph/sec max or a 0-60 of 7 secs).

 

Here's a few observations based on information from some of you here and notes on the Fuelly.com pages:

 

1) The C-Max Hybrid seems to get around 26-32 mpg at highway speeds based on EV/Total miles driven per tank. The numbers are fairly consistent across several owners and several cars with long trips during that tank.

2) The EV miles seem to the save the C-Max from looking even worse. But, the majority of those on Fuelly.com are at or below 40 mpg average.

3) The average for all 19 cars (as of 11/25/12) is 39.2 mpg. Ugh. That's not good!

4) Hypermiling should give you results way above the EPA mpg's (+10). It shouldn't take hypermiling to get the EPA estimates.

 

Having said all that, the sample size is still small. There are only 19 2913 C-Max Hybrids on Fuelly.com vs 207 2012 Prius V's.

 

Keep posting fillups on Fuelly and post your EV miles per tank.

 

Interesting post, do you own a C-Max or plan to?

[RachelnLa]

I have looked at feully and will give it a try once the car arrives.

 

Is there a difference between the mpg that the car is showing versus mpg per tankful?

[darrelld]

I would think that the average of 39.2 mpg gallon is actually good. These are all new cars that haven't been broken in yet. My impression from reading this forum is that the C-Max owners are generally pleased and only a small minority are coming in with poor mileage. I don't understand the importance of reporting fillups on Fuelly??

 

I am very pleased with my mpg. I never drove a hybrid (had every Lexus hybrid made for loaners) that got EPA. I have had no issue achieving EPA with my C-Max. My TDI can also hit EPA easily.

[CNCGeek]

I am very pleased with my mpg. I never drove a hybrid (had every Lexus hybrid made for loaners) that got EPA. I have had no issue achieving EPA with my C-Max. My TDI can also hit EPA easily.

 

I don't want to get nit-picky, but I have to point out that your fuelly data shows 42.8mpg average, and the latest 48.8mpg was over only 158 miles. The freeway/city mix on your driving is shown as 15/85 so you should be getting the optimal fuel economy considering most is city (regardless of what Ford's hwy mpg estimate says). What I found most interesting is that your numbers align pretty well with what I am seeing (indicated), and my mix is probably close to the same. I do not consider the C-max fuel economy to be bad, but I am unable to get the advertised mpg on a consistent basis (and I only say "advertised" because of the comparison Ford made with the Prius). I do not use many hypermiling techniques (trying out the pulse and glide where it is safe).

Edited November 26, 2012 by CNCGeek

[MSmith1915]

My wife had the opportunity to drive our C-Max SEL exclusively for about 12 days because I was out of town. She drove about 400 miles with about 137 miles on EV, two 50 mile round trips to the airport and the rest around town. Her average mpg was 38.5. She drives the C-Max like any car she has ever driven. She doesn't know anything about EV, ICE, regen braking or hypermiling techniques. I was typically getting about 43 mpg around town. We have about 1500 miles on the car now, so it's still breaking in. I know the C-Max is capable of better than 38.5 mpg, but you do have work a little harder with your driving techniques to achieve those higher numbers. I plan on filling up with ethenol-free gas and I'll post the results on the gas mileage when I get them.

[stranger267]

My best trip for now:

Walnut Creek - Byron, and back. Few country roads, 45 - 50 mph.

 

 

 

Back (darkness so results are lower)

 

 

few more pictures with data here - https://picasaweb.google.com/104011126278844356239/201211Misc3?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCK7qrqqBpIeZdw&feat=directlink

 

So, in the best possible conditions it show 42 - not bad but far behind 47.

[darrelld]

 

I don't want to get nit-picky, but I have to point out that your fuelly data shows 42.8mpg average, and the latest 48.8mpg was over only 158 miles. The freeway/city mix on your driving is shown as 15/85 so you should be getting the optimal fuel economy considering most is city (regardless of what Ford's hwy mpg estimate says). What I found most interesting is that your numbers align pretty well with what I am seeing (indicated), and my mix is probably close to the same. I do not consider the C-max fuel economy to be bad, but I am unable to get the advertised mpg on a consistent basis (and I only say "advertised" because of the comparison Ford made with the Prius). I do not use many hypermiling techniques (trying out the pulse and glide where it is safe).

 

My wife is the primary driver of the C-Max and she drives it without fuel economy in mind. She usually speeds away from a red light tailgating the driver in front of her until an opportunity to pass occurs. Prior to her Jetta TDI she drove a Saturn Vue Redline and Camaro Z28. Her first question when looking at the C-Max was how much power does it have, the second question was about fuel economy.

 

When I drive as the primary (the last fuel up data on fuelly) mpg increases dramatically. I don't really use any special techniques other that pulse quickly up to the speed limit and glide in EV. Every other hybrid I have driven (Lexus, Hyundai, check the Fuelly data for those) got within the same margin or error I am seeing reported here and Fuelly for the C-Max.

 

All the Ford comparions I have seen relate to the Prius V but all the forum comparisons are to the Prius sedan?

[skwcrj]

 

My wife is the primary driver of the C-Max and she drives it without fuel economy in mind. She usually speeds away from a red light tailgating the driver in front of her until an opportunity to pass occurs. Prior to her Jetta TDI she drove a Saturn Vue Redline and Camaro Z28. Her first question when looking at the C-Max was how much power does it have, the second question was about fuel economy.

 

When I drive as the primary (the last fuel up data on fuelly) mpg increases dramatically. I don't really use any special techniques other that pulse quickly up to the speed limit and glide in EV. Every other hybrid I have driven (Lexus, Hyundai, check the Fuelly data for those) got within the same margin or error I am seeing reported here and Fuelly for the C-Max.

 

All the Ford comparions I have seen relate to the Prius V but all the forum comparisons are to the Prius sedan?

 

I have a 2012 Prius V so my comparison is based on the Prius V.

 

Questions for you: Your first 2 fillups on Fuelly are partial fill ups (no mpg calculated). Did you mean to check "Partial Fillup"? If not, you can edit your fillup information and uncheck the "Partial Fill up". Do you know the breakdown between total miles and EV miles? Can you add to your Fuelly notes?

[darrelld]

 

I have a 2012 Prius V so my comparison is based on the Prius V.

 

Questions for you: Your first 2 fillups on Fuelly are partial fill ups (no mpg calculated). Did you mean to check "Partial Fillup"? If not, you can edit your fillup information and uncheck the "Partial Fill up". Do you know the breakdown between total miles and EV miles? Can you add to your Fuelly notes?

 

Not partials, Fuelly does not start calculating and displaying data until your 3rd fill.

 

http://www.fuelly.co...browse-vehicles

 

A Fuelly car needs three fuel-ups before it shows up public areas of the site. We've found that average fuel economy is all over the map when you only have a couple entries, but once a few fuel-ups have been added the average tends to even out to a more realistic number for the vehicle. Excluding newly created cars makes the list more useful for people who want to compare fuel economy.

 

 

I have not started documenting total EV miles per fill and will start, its data that should be interesting to track.

Edited November 26, 2012 by darrelld

[skwcrj]

 

Not partials, Fuelly does not start calculating and displaying data until your 3rd fill.

 

 

 

I have not started documenting total EV miles per fill and will start, its data that should be interesting to track.

 

Hmmm. That's interesting because all of my fillups have show mpg from the first one (going way back). Now you have me curious as to why a few don't show mpg and most do.

[skwcrj]

From Fuelly.com:

Fuelly FAQ

 

Why doesn't my fuel-up have a calculated MPG (L/100km)?

 

There are several reasons why an individual fuel-up might not get an MPG (or L/100km if you're using metric) calculated. Here are the most common reasons with links to more information:

 

1.) You marked the fuel-up as partial.

2.) You marked the previous fuel-up as partial.

3.) You marked the fuel-up as missed.

4.) It's your first fuel-up and you're using odometer tracking.

5.) The fuel-up is a duplicate of an existing odometer reading so no distance could be calculated.

6.) The calculated MPG was over 199 miles/gallon.

 

If the calculated MPG was over 199 miles/gallon it might be caused by a data entry error somewhere along the line. Frequently, an extremely high MPG calculation is due to an extra or dropped digit from an odometer reading.

[darrelld]

 

Hmmm. That's interesting because all of my fillups have show mpg from the first one (going way back). Now you have me curious as to why a few don't show mpg and most do.

 

From my interpretation of the fuelly faq they reveal all the previous fillups once a predetermined number of data points have been reached.

[ptjones]

I have been trying to figure out when the shutters are closed. It appears that the shutters are closed any time the car is stopped in EV mode and the engine would only run if it was cold and if the AC is not on. I'm guessing that the shutters would open when the engine is running and temps are high enough. I don't have an easy way to check this out. I have rough cut a clear plexiglass center grill opening cover and I'm trying to figure out how to finish out and attach. Will post pics once I get it done.

Edited November 28, 2012 by ptjones

[ptjones]

I have rough cut a clear plexiglass center grill opening cover and I'm trying to figure out how to finish out and attach. Will post pics once I get it done.

 

Check out photos in my Gallery.

 

I am going to continue to do more testing to determine what mpg improvement I'm getting. Stay tuned!

Last night I made a 110mi. trip with two stops. I was averaging between 65 mph and 70 mph with speeds from 55 to 80 mph. I had an average of 46.3 mpg when I started with 100 mi on the tank. When I finished I still had 46.3 mpg average after 110 mi with drafting 75% of the time. My EV % went from 60% to 45% for this tank. This morning I tried out my TOCGO mod on the hwy setting the eco cruise for 70 mph and went 12 mi. hwy /2.2cty. My average for the trip was 39.8 mpg with no drafting 2.1EV mi.,.5 regen mi. This shows that drafting at 70 mph is worth at least 5 or more mpg. Also I checked again at 100 mi. on the tripometer the GPS had 101.5 mi. so I'm doing 1.5% better than calculated or +.5 mpg.

Edited November 28, 2012 by ptjones

[RobT]

So I'm stuck at 45.5 mpg...around 2000 on the odometer. My wife takes it down a little, I bring it up a little. It could be better but I get tired of thinking too much about the way I'm driving every second. Take a phone call and completely throw things off. Now when I see it sinking, I just bring it back. 45.5...that's my number I guess. I am still learning some different things about driving, definitely some tricks on how to handle hills, mountains, up stretches, down streches. Since I have the same commute everyday, I think I'll be able to maximize the mpg someday as I test out different exceleration points and cruise points...gonna be awhile.

[MSmith1915]

Just got back from a trip to Lowes, 5.2 miles and when I shut the car off, the mpg registered 65 mpg.  My best short trip so far.

 

December 2

Two short trips today, one about 13 miles and the other about 7.  Information display showed 50 mpg on both legs.  With 150 miles on this tank, holding above 47 mpg, actual today is 47.6

Edited December 2, 2012 by MSmith1915