Our first long trip with the update was a disappointment!

[mikekoz]

  My wife and I just came back from a 130 mile trip, actually 260 miles both ways. About 200 of those miles were on Interstate 40 at 70+ MPH. Before the update, we would get an average MPG on this trip of 36-38. Surprisingly, that did not improve at all. The car would not stay on EV mode for any length of time no matter what I did. This trip is also pretty flat terrrain. It seems to do fine on short trips at faster speeds, but not longer ones. One thing I should mention is that I am normally the one driving the Cmax to work and back, and it is just me in the car with nothing else.  This trip had my wife and luggage, laptop, etc in the car also. It was nothing too excessive and I would not think that would make much of a difference. Either way, I am pretty disappointed in the update at this point.

[gummizilla]

I haven't had a road trip in my CMAx yet but I have several 300+ mile ones coming up.  What I'm expecting is to try to keep the car in hybrid mode most of the way.  Speed will be 65-70.  I'll be happy with 40mpg.

[JAZ]

_{Update or no, if it's operationg properly the C-Max should easily deliver 40+ mpg at 65...}

[Adair]

MikeKoz, if it's any consolation, I was very disappointed with  my MPGs immediately after the upgrade in early August. But, slowly but surely it's crept back up.I cannot account for it......if it's me learning to drive differently (again!) or if the car, as some have said, has to relearn my driving habits. We took a mini-road trip into Detroit this weekend, about 40 miles each way. Ended the trip with 45.6. I don't have a previous trip on this same route to compare to, tho. But, my daily back and forth to work seems to be slowly improving. Tonite's trip home (17.3 miles, country/community roads) was 55.6 mpg). The true test for me is going to be this winter. I got my C-MAX at the end of November last year and drove it thru the winter. We'll see what the winter of 2013-14 brings.

 

I hope your MPGs continue to improve as well.

[mtb9153]

After I got my upgrade, it took a few tanks to sort things out.  But now it appears that my biggest improvement has come with driving in town on level roads while driving in the speed range of 25-40mph.  I haven't noticed much of an improvement at 60-55mph.  I've never sustained speeds above 65 since there is no place locally to drive at 70mph legally.  Interstate-5 is the closet place I can do 70 legally, but it is about an hour to my east.

[drdiesel1]

  My wife and I just came back from a 130 mile trip, actually 260 miles both ways. About 200 of those miles were on Interstate 40 at 70+ MPH. Before the update, we would get an average MPG on this trip of 36-38. Surprisingly, that did not improve at all. The car would not stay on EV mode for any length of time no matter what I did. This trip is also pretty flat terrrain. It seems to do fine on short trips at faster speeds, but not longer ones. One thing I should mention is that I am normally the one driving the Cmax to work and back, and it is just me in the car with nothing else.  This trip had my wife and luggage, laptop, etc in the car also. It was nothing too excessive and I would not think that would make much of a difference. Either way, I am pretty disappointed in the update at this point.

What tire pressure are you running ? How many miles are on your car and how many since the upgrade ?

Driving 70+ mph will kill mileage numbers. Driving a hybrid like it's not isn't going to give you any mpg advantage.

Knock the speed back to 65 mph and set the tire pressures up to 45 to 48 psi too.

[drdiesel1]

_{Update or no, if it's operationg properly the C-Max should easily deliver 40+ mpg at 65...}

He's driving 70+ :drop: and expecting great mpg numbers.  It's like shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the gun :lol2:

[mlaurence]

I did a 200 mile trip over the weekend, more than half on interstate highways. At the end, I was over 44 mpg. That's with the update, and I was happy with the results. I actually did quite a bit of driving over 70mph, and didn't pay as close attention as I usually do to the changing mpg guages. So that meant for a more relaxed trip. Going uphills, I let the car slow to 60 or so, but over the hill I let it go as fast as 75, and I was happy to see the EV kick in even at those speeds on the downward slope. It was nice to be passing some cars and using some of the fun-to-drive power that I bought with the C-Max. Overall, I'd say I had faster speeds than before the update, and my overall mileage was at least as good as before.

[mikekoz]

He's driving 70+ :drop: and expecting great mpg numbers.  It's like shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the gun :lol2:

 

 

    I think you are missing my point. The upgrade was supposed to make the Cmax work in EV mode up to 85 MPH. On this trip, it did not and worked as it did before the upgrade even on flat terrain and going a steady 70 MPH. Maybe it will not give you 47 MPG because of other factors like speed, aerodynamics, etc, but there was no change.

[mikekoz]

What tire pressure are you running ? How many miles are on your car and how many since the upgrade ?

Driving 70+ mph will kill mileage numbers. Driving a hybrid like it's not isn't going to give you any mpg advantage.

Knock the speed back to 65 mph and set the tire pressures up to 45 to 48 psi too.

 

 

     The tire pressure is at 41. I actually initially put them at 48 but thought that was too high. Is that what you keep yours on? Our car has about 15000 miles on it and it is almost a year old.

[Tdefny]

Even if you CAN go into EV mode up to 85, it doesn't mean that it is best for your mileage or that it would benefit you in any way. The traction motor is at the top end of the constant HP portion of its performance curve at that speed, which means its lowest torque torque. The hybrid battery also does not have much stored energy to propel the car for very long. Blend mode may be better at those speeds. The Energi can hold that speed for a long time when the battery is full, but is little different when in hybrid (charge sustaining) mode.

 

In my opinion, the 85 MPH EV portion of the update was just to say they did something. The maximum EV only speed on my Prius is 42, but it gets great mileage above that in blend mode.

[RaPieR]

    I think you are missing my point. The upgrade was supposed to make the Cmax work in EV mode up to 85 MPH. On this trip, it did not and worked as it did before the upgrade even on flat terrain and going a steady 70 MPH. Maybe it will not give you 47 MPG because of other factors like speed, aerodynamics, etc, but there was no change.

 

 

Does your C-Max drop into EV mode if you reduce load?  For example you are cruising at 75MPH and tap the cruise button down twice to slow down slightly or when you go into a downhill?

 

The update increased the operating speed limit of the electric motor but it can't sustain EV at higher speeds if load condition are not right.

[C-Maxgo]

I'm not sure if it's the update or my driving habits but I seem to be getting better highway gas mileage.  I recently took a 530 mile trip and averaged over 47 mpg.  The speed limit was 70 but I averaged about 65.  The last time I drove this same route I got about 43 mpg.  This time I found it very easier to travel ice high.  I was not on EV just averaging between 65 and 70 mpg on ice.  Check out other posts about using ice high or as some call it the sweet spot.  

[Testdriver]

It's not going to go into EV mode frequently cruising at 70+ MPH on flat terrain. That's expected. It should go into EV when you're decelerating or on downhill grades. As soon as it flattens out, it will go back to the ICE pretty quickly at high speeds. It will not go into EV mode on pancake flat terrain, even if you're only going 55 MPH. Whether this makes the most sense from an efficiency standpoint, I do not know. Keep in mind, even when you're in "ICE mode", the EV motor still assists the ICE, so it's not really ICE only.

[drdiesel1]

     The tire pressure is at 41. I actually initially put them at 48 but thought that was too high. Is that what you keep yours on? Our car has about 15000 miles on it and it is almost a year old.

I am currently running 48 psi as an mpg and wear test. My car has under 3000 miles.  After the 5K rotation, I'll see how the wear is and might go to 50 or 55 ?  Running a higher pressure will reduce tire wear and increase mpg numbers, but after a certain point the benefits are lost.

 We have a member on the Energi forum that runs 58. He's a long time hypermiller that has awards up the wazoo for mpg numbers.

Edited September 25, 2013 by drdiesel1

[drdiesel1]

Even if you CAN go into EV mode up to 85, it doesn't mean that it is best for your mileage or that it would benefit you in any way. The traction motor is at the top end of the constant HP portion of its performance curve at that speed, which means its lowest torque torque. The hybrid battery also does not have much stored energy to propel the car for very long. Blend mode may be better at those speeds. The Energi can hold that speed for a long time when the battery is full, but is little different when in hybrid (charge sustaining) mode.

 

In my opinion, the 85 MPH EV portion of the update was just to say they did something. The maximum EV only speed on my Prius is 42, but it gets great mileage above that in blend mode.

The main reason for EV up to 85 mph is to get off the tops of hills in EV/Coast mode with a higher EV and regen use,

 without needing to run the ICE on the freeways at higher speeds. It works great if you can take advantage of it. I find

it extremely useful out here in CA with all the large hills.

 

  I also utilize the DHA all the time.  I can even regen back the EV part of my battery with it.

  I've been able to get 5 to 7 EV battery miles back after the hybrid side fills up on some of our larger downhills.

 It's pretty sweet to be able to run EV mode at 65 and 70 when topping the freeway hills. The more the ICE

is off, the better your MPG will be. IMO, all hybrid vehicles should be designed with an 85 mph capable EV mode.

 

42 mph is pretty useless, IMO. I had an 08 Prius and the 2013 C. They don't stack up against the C-Max.

The added 85 mph EV mode and the DHA are two of the best hybrid innovations to date. Toyota is scrambling

 to update it's long in the tooth fleet to compete with this car. First they need to start by using lithium batteries.

I would guess they'll move to the Ford, designs for higher EV capability too.  They both cross patent each others designs,

 so I would expect to see this move sooner than later..

Edited September 25, 2013 by drdiesel1

[Jmonty]

Was there headwind? Rain?

 

40 mpg is now the quoted ideal for highway driving, so expect under that for interstate travel.

 

Before the update I was getting 35-37 mpg @ a constant 70+ mph, weather dependent. With AC, and a load, and before the break in period. Really, that's fine. Compared with the 47 highway they claimed when I bought the car, it's not close. But still the $ difference on a 2,800 mile trip was negligible.

[C-MaxSea]

Funny, I don't see 70, 75, 80, .... or even 65 on this EPA test "schedule" for "Highway". 

 Remember folks (especially casual viewers) the EPA "Highway" numbers for the C-Max & all cars have nothing to do with driving the interstate at 61 mph or higher. (neither Ford nor any other car company ever claimed "Highway" numbers for Interstate Freeway speeds greater than 60) 
 
The EPA numbers are locked into a vintage 1955 two lane highway.
 
Someone please correct me if that is wrong.
 
Nick
 
PS  Give the EPA another 30 years, and maybe they will discover the Interstate.

PSS  Sadly we all readily interchange the words highway/freeway..... and get a bit cornfused.

Edited September 25, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[asb]

My mileage continues to tank after the upgrade.  I would expect to AT LEAST be getting the same as I was before, but that is not the case.  I managed an incredible 48 mpgs one afternoon, but finished the tank at 42, which is really 39 at the pump.  That is not acceptable when I used to get 44 to 45 on the dashboard for a tank.  My car will not drop into EV at all above 65 - and that includes going down hills.  And I drive mainly on the highway, so that 'sweet spot' was really helping me.  I called my service adviser and he said it's possible that only half of the update installed correctly.  I'm taking it in tomorrow morning to reinstall the update and see what happens.

 

I believe this can definitely happen because my first tank AFTER the upgrade ended at 45 on the dashboard with over 521 miles for the tank - my highest ever.  After that, it's been all downhill.  The only thing I'm seeing is that the battery is now running at nearly full most of the time - but that's with me forcing the car into EV whenever there's an incline.

 

I'll let you know what happens after the reinstall.

 

So again, for those who are saying we should not see higher mileage when driving at 70, remember that I drive between 65 and 70 every day for my commute, and I've seen a steady decrease in mileage after the upgrade.  I've changed my driving style to accommodate the new upgrade, but it isn't working other than keeping the battery at full.  

 

Last weekend I made a 300 mile trip from central Florida to south Florida - mostly flat.  Before the upgrade, I got 38 mpg, which is what I expected.  After the upgrade, I got 37 mpg with me riding the 'controls' the entire way in order to force it into EV in order to do some coasting where appropriate.

Edited September 26, 2013 by asb

[Jmonty]

Funny, I don't see 70, 75, 80, .... or even 65 on this EPA test "schedule" for "Highway". 

 

 

 

 

nobody cares.  "highway" is still misleading. 

[GaryM]

From what I have read on this forum and a few other places, I have to agree, your 13B07 mileage update did not take properly. Mine is now scheduled to be done Oct. 25 th and the first thing I am doing when I pick it up is putting it into EV at 70 mph on the 405, just a block away from Galpin Ford.

[drdiesel1]

My mileage continues to tank after the upgrade.  I would expect to AT LEAST be getting the same as I was before, but that is not the case.  I managed an incredible 48 mpgs one afternoon, but finished the tank at 42, which is really 39 at the pump.  That is not acceptable when I used to get 44 to 45 on the dashboard for a tank.  My car will not drop into EV at all above 65 - and that includes going down hills.  And I drive mainly on the highway, so that 'sweet spot' was really helping me.  I called my service adviser and he said it's possible that only half of the update installed correctly.  I'm taking it in tomorrow morning to reinstall the update and see what happens.

 

I believe this can definitely happen because my first tank AFTER the upgrade ended at 45 on the dashboard with over 521 miles for the tank - my highest ever.  After that, it's been all downhill.  The only thing I'm seeing is that the battery is now running at nearly full most of the time - but that's with me forcing the car into EV whenever there's an incline.

 

I'll let you know what happens after the reinstall.

 

So again, for those who are saying we should not see higher mileage when driving at 70, remember that I drive between 65 and 70 every day for my commute, and I've seen a steady decrease in mileage after the upgrade.  I've changed my driving style to accommodate the new upgrade, but it isn't working other than keeping the battery at full.  

 

Last weekend I made a 300 mile trip from central Florida to south Florida - mostly flat.  Before the upgrade, I got 38 mpg, which is what I expected.  After the upgrade, I got 37 mpg with me riding the 'controls' the entire way in order to force it into EV in order to do some coasting where appropriate.

Sounds like your dealer is jerking you around. There's no such thing as it didn't take. Either it's reprogrammed or it's not.

My bet is they never updated your modules. I've been programming vehicles for the last 20 years. Your SA is a jackass.

Edited September 26, 2013 by drdiesel1

[drdiesel1]

From what I have read on this forum and a few other places, I have to agree, your 13B07 mileage update did not take properly. Mine is now scheduled to be done Oct. 25 th and the first thing I am doing when I pick it up is putting it into EV at 70 mph on the 405, just a block away from Galpin Ford.

Impossible. There's no such thing as: It didn't take properly. Either it's programmed or it's not. My bet is they never did the updates.

Edited September 26, 2013 by drdiesel1

[Adair]

I am certainly not an expert, but I beg to differ with you, based on my own experience. When I got my car back after the 1st upgrade it immediately began to go into EV mode much easier, and I was getting 60mpg on routes that previously were in the 50s at the highest. But I knew the update was incomplete because I could not get into EV over 62mph and my regen miles were the same. After the *do-over* the EV+ locations were gone, regen miles wer -0-, I could get into EV at 70+ mph on the highway BUT the car sounded and drove differently, my MPGs dropped, and it's taken me more than a month of driving for things to come back around to close to what they were before the update and update Part 1.

Impossible. There's no such thing as: It didn't take properly. Either it's programmed or it's not. My bet is they never did the updates.

[C-MaxSea]

"highway" is still misleading. 

 

Exactly my point.  A couple references to the magic 47, interplay the words "highway" & "interstate", and it gets misleading/cornfusing.  Good thread.  Sorry for the sidebar note intended for casual viewers.  To the OP's point, If you can't get EV over 62 mph, go back to the dealer until you can; then find your own comfort speed/MPG driving zone.  The car seems to require a short break-in after the update.

 

Comfortable ECO cruising at 65 ish mph, 45 ish mpg, in 70 mph zones.

Nick

Edited September 26, 2013 by C-MaxSea